Heir presumptive

**Slyspy** · September 07, 2010, 07:35 AM

I have a heir presumptive put now have a blood prince come of age. Will the true blood become heir?

**SirRobin** · September 07, 2010, 11:07 AM

From my experience, no - the "false heir" will grasp the reins of power! I wish there were some way of conspiring against this happening, apart from killing off the unrightful heir in a boat or a suicide charge as people often comment that they do..

**Callawyn** · September 07, 2010, 11:14 AM

Check the submod folder, there's a Next Heir Ancillary mod

**Slyspy** · September 07, 2010, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by SirRobin

From my experience, no - the "false heir" will grasp the reins of power! I wish there were some way of conspiring against this happening, apart from killing off the unrightful heir in a boat or a suicide charge as people often comment that they do..

Thats a shame. I was hoping that the whole presumptive/regent thing worked as it should.

Originally Posted by Callawyn

Check the submod folder, there's a Next Heir Ancillary mod

Yes, I've seen that but it needs a fresh campaign which I'm reluctant to do. Such a pity that the current system doesn't work.

**Clackdor** · September 07, 2010, 11:32 AM

Next Heir ancillary wouldn't work when the Heir Presumptive is already declared and an Heir Apparent comes of age. You cannot change who the Heir is, just hope to guide the system.

**SoulBlade** · September 07, 2010, 12:02 PM

Kill him.

**WARdrobe** · September 07, 2010, 12:10 PM

Only way to prevent the false heir from becoming king is indeed kill him.
And the submod works by simply increasing a characters authority. If you want someone to become your next heir just give him a trait that boosts that stat. I think Authoritarian or something was one.

**SirRobin** · September 07, 2010, 03:42 PM

The whole problem comes from CA's idea that men could be "adopted" into royal families, to be treated as real sons - with right to inherit the throne.

That idea seems to have been ported over from Rome: Total War, where it made more historical sense (as far as I know history at least, somebody correct me if I'm wrong).

**Callawyn** · September 07, 2010, 06:16 PM

Yeah, Ceasar himself was adopted.

IMO its really just bad design, the game needs an active general to be the heir. No game mechanic was created to deal with an Heir that was still a minor when faction leader died. Strike 1. No game mechanic was created to automatically change the heir to the first born son when he came of age. Strike 2. No game mechanic was created to allow players to pick their own heir. Strike 3.

Worse, the system they created appears to be based off Authority of generals, which is invisible so there's no feedback. This results in heirs being chosen apparently at random, with no regard for primogeniture or even preference for blood over adoptions.

Worse yet: hardcoded.

All told, pretty near total fail.

**Slyspy** · September 08, 2010, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by Callawyn

Yeah, Ceasar himself was adopted.

IMO its really just bad design, the game needs an active general to be the heir. No game mechanic was created to deal with an Heir that was still a minor when faction leader died. Strike 1. No game mechanic was created to automatically change the heir to the first born son when he came of age. Strike 2. No game mechanic was created to allow players to pick their own heir. Strike 3.

Worse, the system they created appears to be based off Authority of generals, which is invisible so there's no feedback. This results in heirs being chosen apparently at random, with no regard for primogeniture or even preference for blood over adoptions.

Worse yet: hardcoded.

All told, pretty near total fail.

Hah, quite right.

In the end I sent my heir presumptive into a bunch of rebels to die. It is a shame because he was actually a very good governor, but if the traits don't do what they say then so be it.

**SirRobin** · September 08, 2010, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Callawyn

Worse yet: hardcoded.

All told, pretty near total fail.

Allow me to add emphasis to this:

MAJESTIC FAIL.

.

**jsadighi** · September 07, 2010, 06:52 PM

Isn't there some type of royal blood trait or biological son trait? Why don't you mod one of those traits to give increased authority?

**jsadighi** · September 09, 2010, 11:53 AM

So I take it that "biological son" trait can't be edited to provide additional Authority.

**SirRobin** · September 09, 2010, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by jsadighi

So I take it that "biological son" trait can't be edited to provide additional Authority.

I'm not a modder, but I don't see why not. Other traits can give authority, and since biological son is just anotehr trait, it stands to reason that it should be able to add to authority.

**REDrake** · September 10, 2010, 06:14 AM

Biological son simply means that a cousin of a desired heir is going to get high authority and get chosen. SonofKing/Prince trait OTOH, that might do the trick.

**Fair Prince** · September 10, 2010, 12:28 PM

Some of you might know, I'm currently working on a traits/ancillaries project for SS, and I must say these are very good ideas.

As far as I know, adopted generals don't have the RoyalBlood, nor the BiologialSon traits - so in order to give true sons a higher chance to get selected as heirs, one of these traits (preferably the former) must give them Authority bonus as well. Furthermore, every other trait that has Auth bonus must be revised, so a high Auth level could not be gained so easily - that way royal sons should usually have more Auth points than the adopted 'usurpers' and would have a higher chance of getting picked as next heir.

I'm thinking about this solution because something needs to be done to help the rightful heirs get what should be theirs (with bearing in mind that the 'leftmost rule' can't be dodged, of course), and also because personally I'm not a great fan of using the Next Heir Ancillary for this purpose.

**SirRobin** · September 10, 2010, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Fair Prince

Some of you might know, I'm currently working on a traits/ancillaries project for SS, and I must say these are very good ideas.

Here's an idea for your mod: give all adopted generals an "adopted" trait that reduces their authority to zero. That way they will never become heirs, and since they will never rule, their low authority trait will never be of any effect in the game. Problem solved ?

**Clackdor** · September 10, 2010, 01:21 PM

Adopted generals do not have the biological son triaits, but sons of adopted do.

You could also add authority to sons of foreign princesses, i.e. my ruling line currently has "Kieven Rus" relations. It doesn't do anything else that I'm aware of except give "a certain sense of entitlement". Thsi works because foriegn princesses will ONLY be married to heirs and leaders.

**worldsdead** · September 11, 2010, 06:01 AM

the next heir mod. kicks major ass. i love it. especially with 6.3 since it takes so long to have kids. the authority bump doesn't have much effect (non-byg) as long as you don't leave it with you king or heir. my new game seems more fun because i'm in control of my royal family tree. i can adopt and have several sons, and make sure my pick for heir is next instead of the bum on the left.