Pergamon game, coule questions.

[Zing]

Thanks to the creators, I am really enjoying the game. I have been playing for couple of days, and its already one of my favourite RTW mods. I didnt play RS1, so I was very surprised by the quality of the mod.

I do have several questions, though. I apologize if those questions were answered previously, but I didnt find answers.

1. Playing Pergamon I tried hiring Rhomphaiophoroi, and while pretty impressive by themselves at chewing low-tier infantry, they seem to suck compared to other heavy assault infantry, like Testosages (same price, similar stats, have javelins), not to mention elite Thorakitai Agryraspides. I was under an impression that Rhompies suppose to have ap weapons, yet their card doesnt mentions it. I dug into files and got a bit confused. Is thats the unit?

type thraikan falxman
dictionary thraikan_falxman
category infantry
class heavy
voice_type Heavy_1
soldier thraikan_falxman, 50, 0, 1.328, 0.55
officer greek_officer
officer greek_standard
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, warcry, hardy, can_swim
formation 1, 1, 2, 2, 5, square
stat_health 1, 5
stat_pri 19, 31, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, piercing, spear, 25, 0.294
stat_pri_attr light_spear, spear_bonus_6
stat_sec 19, 31, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, slashing, axe, 25, 0.523
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_pri_armour 7, 19, 2, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 1, flesh
stat_heat 3
stat_ground 1, -2, 1, 2
stat_mental 20, normal, trained
stat_charge_dist 51
stat_fire_delay 5000
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 2452, 746, 371, 493, 306
ownership barbarian, nomad, carthaginian, eastern, parthia, egyptian, greek, roman

Does it mean they have two weapons with the same texture, and first attack with attribute spear, and then switch to attribute axe? Do they do it automatically, or should I alt-attack when assaulting other infantry to get their ap falx out? If they keep on attacking infantry with not-ap spears, that would explain their suckage.

2. Somewhat related question - my main battle line are Hoplites, and often when they attack infantry they switch to swords, but sometimes stay with spears. How is it controlled? And, for the sake of historical accuracy, shouldnt they always prefer spears to short sword?

3. What should my battle line look like? I was under an impression that Pergamon would have phalanx as its main infantry type, yet I can only hire cheap levy mercenary phalanx, or ultra-expensive ellites, and either of them are not available at the start, you have to build quite a bit to reach them. So my main infantry is Pergamum hoplites. They are awesome for their price (too cheap even), but arent hoplites outdated by the mod start date? Shouldnt they be flavour unit, instead of main one?

4. I conquered Sinope (Paphlagonia), but I cant build third level and above barracks because the region seem to lack precious_import or weapons_import resources. Was there an ancient colony of pacifist around Sinope, or is there another reason why building an army there isnt possible?

5. Also, a city can build either weapon import, or precious metal import. But when looking through the files, I found that while weapon import is important (leads to better armories and blacksmiths), precious metal import doesnt do anything - it doesnt give bonuses, its not a prerequisite to any other buildings. Am I missing something?

[DarthLazy]

I think tone mentioned somewhere in the previews that they use two weapons, one is a spear and the other is an axe but both have the same texture and model, so yes you will need to alt click to make AP work

[jakeswe]

They use the rhomphaia, a kind of halberd(?). A great unit if used correctly, let them engage in guard-mode and then alt-click when the enemy is weakened to start chopping limbs off.

[Visarion]

they use rhomphaia both as a spear and as a sword! Let me explain it to you! when in deffensive formation they use it as a spear and can hold their lines even in a cavalry charge... when charging they use their weapon, the rhomphaia as a sword and they are very effective when ambushing... make sure you charge from the right distance and have warcry active! learn to fight with them before saying they suck! they are good to make the difference and rout the enemy, not to be used as tanks... when you see they can't handle other troops withdraw them and after giving warcry charge again! they are best used to support heavier troops and attack from flank or rear to break the enemy! they were not intended to act like heavy troops! try using them like this and we'll talk after... also when attacked leave them the way they are if you do not have the needed time and distance to give warcry and charge... they will fight deffensivley and stand their lines until reinforcements arrive... all the best! take care! Visarion

[dvk901]

Thanks to the creators, I am really enjoying the game. I have been playing for couple of days, and its already one of my favourite RTW mods. I didnt play RS1, so I was very surprised by the quality of the mod.

I do have several questions, though. I apologize if those questions were answered previously, but I didnt find answers.

1. Playing Pergamon I tried hiring Rhomphaiophoroi, and while pretty impressive by themselves at chewing low-tier infantry, they seem to suck compared to other heavy assault infantry, like Testosages (same price, similar stats, have javelins), not to mention elite Thorakitai Agryraspides. I was under an impression that Rhompies suppose to have ap weapons, yet their card doesnt mentions it. I dug into files and got a bit confused. Is thats the unit?



Does it mean they have two weapons with the same texture, and first attack with attribute spear, and then switch to attribute axe? Do they do it automatically, or should I alt-attack when assaulting other infantry to get their ap falx out? If they keep on attacking infantry with not-ap spears, that would explain their suckage.

2. Somewhat related question - my main battle line are Hoplites, and often when they attack infantry they switch to swords, but sometimes stay with spears. How is it controlled? And, for the sake of historical accuracy, shouldnt they always prefer spears to short sword?

3. What should my battle line look like? I was under an impression that Pergamon would have phalanx as its main infantry type, yet I can only hire cheap levy mercenary phalanx, or ultra-expensive ellites, and either of them are not available at the start, you have to build quite a bit to reach them. So my main infantry is Pergamum hoplites. They are awesome for their price (too cheap even), but arent hoplites outdated by the mod start date? Shouldnt they be flavour unit, instead of main one?

4. I conquered Sinope (Paphlagonia), but I cant build third level and above barracks because the region seem to lack precious_import or weapons_import resources. Was there an ancient colony of pacifist around Sinope, or is there another reason why building an army there isnt possible?

5. Also, a city can build either weapon import, or precious metal import. But when looking through the files, I found that while weapon import is important (leads to better armories and blacksmiths), precious metal import doesnt do anything - it doesnt give bonuses, its not a prerequisite to any other buildings. Am I missing something?

In order to build third third level barracks you need:

hinterland_settlement_determination path_choice
mineral_import weapons_metals_import

[Zing]

I got or figured out answers to all question, except for Paphlagonian one.

In order to build third third level barracks you need:

hinterland_settlement_determination path_choice
mineral_import weapons_metals_import

Yes, and in order to build mineral_import a region should have either weapons_import or precious_import.
Paphlagonia has

silver, timber, iron, pigs, gre, naval, area12, r13, fort, river_port

So as you can see its a region rich in metals and all other items. But I cant build blacksmith or third level barracks because I need "mineral_import" for them. And I cant build mineral import because Paphlagonia has its own metal, so in theory it shouldnt have to import anything. Its kinda ridiculous that I cant use my own iron and have to import minerals from abroad.
The more I look at it, the more it seems like a bug.
The full requirements, if I understand it correctly, are

greek_order3 requires factions { numidia, } and building_present_min_level hinterland_settlement_determination path_choice and building_present_min_level mineral_import weapons_metals_import or resource iron or resource copper or resource tin or resource lead

Could it be that in "mineral_import weapons_metals_import or resource iron" the game assumes "mineral_import AND (weapons_metals_import or resource iron)"? I am sorry, I never touched RTW code, so I dont really know how it works, but that seems to be the only way why iron resource in the province is not used.

Or could it be that the problem is because I already have fortified_city instead of path_choice? I just never dealt with building_present_min_level, but it shouldnt be a problem, since fortified_city is above path_choice, correct? I conquered city from Pontos who got it from Greeks. It already had 3rd level barrack that I could not use and fortified_city. I destroyed the barrack and build my own, but cant go beyound 2nd level. I cant destroy fortified_city to check it out.

[Zing]

I actually found a solution by myself. The resources for Paphlagonia were located in wrong coordinates, and ended up in the wrong province, Paphlagonia_Graecus, so Paphlagonia_Graecus had both iron, silver, and options to import iron and silver. I fixed the files, but it seems I cant change them in ongoing game, and cant be bothered to start a new game.
So yeah, a small but ugly bug.

[Visarion]

Interesting!!! hope the developers see your post...