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  1. #1

    Default The Hybrid Myth

    The Hybrid Myth

    December 1, 2005




    BEGIN TRANSCRIPT



    RUSH: We had a discussion last week about all these hybrids. I have told people ever since I heard about it, I talked to a high-ranking automobile executive who said, you know, this hybrid stuff is crazy. He said, "If we could make every automobile in America a hybrid today, in five years we would be right back to using the same amount of gasoline and oil that we're using today. It's not going to save anything. So this little column appeared in the Wall Street Journal yesterday by Holman W. Jenkins, Jr. It's called "Dear Valued Hybrid Customer -- We at the Toyota Motor Corporation are writing to address certain misconceptions that have arisen about your Toyota Prius model, which we are proud to note is driven by many celebrities, including Prince Charles and HBO's Larry David. Our pioneering gasoline-electric hybrid, introduced in 1999, has become an object of adoration to the world's enlightened car buyers. Our competitors, including America's Big Three, are rushing out hybrid vehicles of their own. Unconfirmed media reports say that we at Toyota intend to double our hybrid output to 500,000 vehicles next year. Along with other members of the auto industry, we will be lobbying for tax breaks and HOV privileges for hybrid vehicles. However, any romance entering its seventh year tends to go stale. Some purchasers have begun to question the practical value of our Hybrid Synergy Drive technology.

    "You may be aware that a survey by Consumer Reports found that our vehicles achieve considerably less mileage (some 26% less) than the sticker rating implies. This has led to some unflattering media stories. Let us assure you that the Prius remains one of the most fuel-efficient cars on the road. Toyota applauds your willingness to spend $9,500 over the price of any comparable vehicle for the privilege of saving, at current gasoline prices, approximately $580 a year -- and should the price of gasoline rise to $5, after 10 years and/or 130,000 miles of driving, you might even come close to breaking even on your investment in hybrid technology." Yeah, so the price of gas would have to rise five bucks after ten years and/or you'd have to drive one of these things 130,000 miles to get back the overprice you paid to be technically and environmental correct. Now... "We recognize that our customers have an 'emotional' relationship with their vehicles. This transcends even the regrettable truth that driving a fuel-efficient car does not yield any substantial benefits for society if it doesn't save the owner money. [italics added] Contrary to any loose statements made by our marketing partners in the environmental community and media, petroleum not consumed by Prius owners is not 'saved.' It does not remain in the ground.

    "It is consumed by someone else. Greenhouse pollutants are released. Also, please note that the warranty and owner's manual say nothing about reducing America's dependence on foreign oil. This is not an oversight. The Prius is an 'oil-dependent' vehicle. It runs on gasoline, supplied by the same world market that fuels other vehicles. The Toyota Corporation regrets any misunderstanding our marketing may inadvertently have caused (or may cause in the future)," and this is -- if I may take a brief pause here from reading the column, this is -- just classic because you know these people are out buying this car, think they're doing so much to "save the planet," and they're not. They're not saving themselves any money; they're not saving appreciable amounts of gasoline. The thing doesn't get the mileage that it has promised to get and besides somebody is using the oil anyway. They're not doing diddly-squat. Now... "We [at Toyota] share your belief that the days of the internal combustion engine are numbered. Further research by our economists suggests this will happen when the price of gasoline rises high enough to make alternative technologies cheaper than gasoline-powered cars. We at Toyota want you to know we recognize this effect and have taken steps to compensate with the rest of our vehicle lineup.


    "Our 2006 Tundra pickup will be equipped with Toyota's new eight-cylinder engine, making it every bit as much of a gas guzzler as any American pickup. We are also redirecting our efforts to use our Hybrid Synergy Drive to increase power output rather than reduce gasoline consumption," because too many Prius owners are complaining it has no get-up-and-go, so we're going to get it more get-up-and-go and we're gonna use more gasoline but you can still be proud you're driving a Prius. "Take our new hybrid SUV, which produces 38 more horsepower but gets the same mileage as our conventional version. A New York Times reviewer wrote, 'One question lingers after driving the 2006 Lexus RX400h: How did it come to this, that Toyota is now selling a hybrid gas-electric vehicle with no tangible fuel economy benefits?' We hope this corrects any misimpression caused by our latest slogan ('Commute with Nature'). Hybrid technology is not 'green' technology. Like heated seats or flashy exterior trim, it's merely an expensive option that generates large markups for the Toyota Corporation and its dealers, [and we are thankful that you support both]. You will share our pride in the latest figures from J.D. Power & Associates, which show that the Prius continues to move off a dealer's lot in just eight days, compared to 36 days for a Honda Civic hybrid. Clearly, our customers are willing to pay handsomely for the privilege of showing themselves behind the wheel of so conspicuously virtuous a vehicle. But we are also a far-seeing corporation.

    "We recognize that the Prius's distinctiveness may be a wasting asset for reasons outlined in this letter. Other motorists may see the Prius operator and think 'sucker.' Our lawyers advise us this may affect your car's resale value. Toyota regrets any inconvenience. We want you to know that Toyota remains committed to advancing hybrid technology just as long as our customers are willing to make it worth our while. Our esteemed competitor, Nissan's Carlos Ghosn, was recently quoted saying, 'There's such a buzz today that no CEO of a car manufacturer dares to say his real opinion of hybrid because he's accused of being retarded.' Another esteemed competitor, GM, has suggested that hybrid technology is best deployed in city buses, where large fuel consumption and stop-and-go driving might actually make it economically sensible. [Hybrid Buses Fail in Seattle] These are just two examples of the short-sighted, stick-in-the-mud marketing instincts of our fellow automakers that are helping to make Toyota the largest car company in the world. Yours Truly, the Toyota Corporation." So the bottom line here is that people that are buying Priuses are doing it for glamour reasons. They wanted to appear virtuous. But they're accomplishing nothing. They're overpaying. They're not saving any money. They're not saving any fuel. They're not advancing a new technology. This is not going to be the end of the internal combustion engine, and most of them that buy these cars are liberals. So it all makes sense.
    Hear the whole transcript while you can here
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  2. #2

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    Fuel efficient cars don't make sense because someone else is gonna use the fuel anyway?

    *boggle*

  3. #3

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    Fuel efficient cars don't make sense because someone else is gonna use the fuel anyway?
    Did you read the article? They make standard cars that get better mileage , have more power and cost far less.
    I have nothing against the womens movement. Especially when Im walking behind it.


  4. #4
    Oldgamer's Avatar My President ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rush Limbaugh
    Did you read the article? They make standard cars that get better mileage , have more power and cost far less.
    Indeed! My old 1969 Dodge Super-Bee Six-Pack packed seven hundred horses under its fiberglass hood, and as long as I didn't open up the outer 2-barrel carbs, got mileage just as good as any SUV, today. All this, and 11.5 in the quarter-mile, for $5600!

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rush Limbaugh
    Did you read the article? They make standard cars that get better mileage , have more power and cost far less.
    Article? Isn't that a transcript of Rush himself? He says he talked to a high-ranking automobile executive (why does that sound like 'unnamed administration official' or 'former hill staffer' ?) and then seems to reading the rest from the Holman Jenkins opinion piece from the WSJ.

    I just zeroed in on that third paragraph as being most striking in it's intellectual dishonesty. As if worrying about conserving fuel is pointless because we're just going to run out anyway.

    Where's the official Toyota letter? I'm going to assume that it's just a piece of satire. While Rush certainly didn't claim it was a letter from Toyota (otherwise, why wouldn't Prius owners each get one in the mail?) he could have possibly emphasized that it was an opinion piece. These certainly aren't Toyota's words. I didn't read the rest of it (that you didn't post) but I would be surprised if Rush took pains to explain that.

    As for the author of the piece, he finally gets down to his beef in the second to last paragraph, regarding the new trucks. Toyota is going to use the hybrid technology to increase HP rather than reduce consumption. An obvious marketing move on their part, but how is that hypocritical? It's still less consumption than without the Hybrid engine if they go for the same HP output. Some people want powerful cars.

    Anyways, maybe Mr. Jenkins could source this stuff and get back to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgamer
    Indeed! My old 1969 Dodge Super-Bee Six-Pack packed seven hundred horses under its fiberglass hood, and as long as I didn't open up the outer 2-barrel carbs, got mileage just as good as any SUV, today. All this, and 11.5 in the quarter-mile, for $5600!
    You're measuring 'good' gas mileage by a comparison to an SUV? It's a shame that we've not come very far in 36 years, then. That sounds like a nice car, though.

    --

    Did the WSJ article mention that Prii (Priuses?) get 40-50 MPG? That's a wee bit better than topping off around 20 MPG for the run-o-the-mill SUV. Somehow I doubt it.
    Last edited by Beetlecat; December 02, 2005 at 12:37 AM. Reason: Late-night spelling...

  6. #6
    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    I have to disagree with Rush on this somewhat. I've been looking into the buying a hybrid (Lexus RX 400h SUV if you must know) and have to say that if nothing else, it is incredibly cool. The thing has features and style that you can't get in anything else. It may not save me any money but so what. Most of these hybrids are also 'look at me' statements.
    As a teenager, I was taken to various houses and flats above takeaways in the north of England, to be beaten, tortured and raped over 100 times. I was called a “white slag” and “white ****” as they beat me.

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  7. #7

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    Wait, so he's saying that these cars are better, but not good enough, so it's not worth even bothering?

  8. #8

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    You need to face a few things about the auto industry:

    1. The american companies are doing poorly because their cheapest car is hard for even someone in the middle class to afford.

    2. They dont make what people want to drive, simple.

    3. They bring back "retro" cars but jack up their price by around 200% even if you count inflation and they are such a price that only rich yuppies can afford and would rather by a Porche or a BMW.


    Also the hybrid thing is wrong, they do get good gas milage and modern non-hybrid cars dont compaire. Their are just some cars that are marketed as "hybrid" but they dont actually use efficient technology. The American cars that are hybrid get terrible gas milage because they are cheap trash, putting it simply. If you get a car like that toyota it does work as it shoud. Their was an article in a auto magazine that I read that talked about this, really its just a huge ripoff. The battery in those cars are just for show, or for powering your tools or computer.

    If you get an Insight, for example, THAT is a good hybrid with good gas milage. However if you can afford one you can probably afford the gas, lol.

    This hybrid thing that you mentioned really only applies to :wub: companies that use crap ripoff technology. You have to research what you buy first, if you want a hybrid DONT buy Ford, buy Toyota. Buying low-end cars from american companies is a waste of money anyways.... then again Mazda is technically an american company.
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    the_mango55's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanaric
    Buying low-end cars from american companies is a waste of money anyways.... then again Mazda is technically an american company.
    A lot of companies are technically American companies now.

    And Chrystler is technically a German company.

    But you are right America has traditionally not made good economy cars. The Focus is one exception I can think of, although I can't stand the headlights on them. America best at making trucks and suvs, mid size sedans, and "cheap" sports cars. An American sports car will likely blow the doors off of a European or Japanese one of the same price. case in point, the 2006 Corvette zo6, will cost $60,000 and will beat anything up to $200,000, except for the $150,000 Ford GT.
    ttt
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  10. #10
    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_mango55
    A lot of companies are technically American companies now.

    And Chrystler is technically a German company.
    This is true.
    And I don't think Amercians can't make cars as good as Europe/Asia can but I think America is just a very different market.
    Americans and Europeans just have different demands and tastes.

    I recently saw a documentary about the Citroen DS, one of the coolest cars ever made, but I doubt many Americans agree on that.
    I doubt many Americans even know what a Citroen DS is.

    Americans drive pickup trucks, the Ford pickup truck is the best selling car in America.
    But who in his right mind would drive a pickup truck in Europe?

    The only tred that made it from America to Europe are the SUV's.
    I don't know why, they are crap, but some Europeans still think they are cool.

    But you are right America has traditionally not made good economy cars. The Focus is one exception I can think of, although I can't stand the headlights on them. America best at making trucks and suvs, mid size sedans, and "cheap" sports cars. An American sports car will likely blow the doors off of a European or Japanese one of the same price. case in point, the 2006 Corvette zo6, will cost $60,000 and will beat anything up to $200,000, except for the $150,000 Ford GT.
    The problem is: In Europe we have a thing called a bend, and we have lots of them.
    It's just like an American road but in stead of straight it's...well... not straight.
    European/Asian sports cars are designed to go trough a corner very fast, they are more than a truck with a big engine.

    ---

    About the hybrids: I never beleived in them, too complicated.
    They might be more fuel efficient but they are too expensive to form a realistic alternative.
    Normal fuel efficient cars are a better option IMO, possibly a modern diesel if you travel a lot.

    The argument that saving fuel makes no difference because we are going to use it all up anyways is an interesting one.
    I always had that feeling.
    But saving money by driving a fuel efficient car is still good for your own, and your countries economy.
    Last edited by Erik; December 02, 2005 at 09:04 AM.



  11. #11

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    Article? Isn't that a transcript of Rush himself?
    About two paragraphs of it are. The letter is not. Try paying attention.

    Where's the official Toyota letter?
    Its a fake letter. Again pay attention. Its what they should be telling their customers. And its not by Rush.

    While Rush certainly didn't claim it was a letter from Toyota (otherwise, why wouldn't Prius owners each get one in the mail?) he could have possibly emphasized that it was an opinion piece.
    If you read the whole thing or listened to him he made it abuntantly clear that this was the case.

    This hybrid thing that you mentioned really only applies to :wub: companies that use crap ripoff technology
    Oh so now Toyota is a :wub: comany that uses crap ripoff technology. I guess next you will be telling me its an American car.
    I have to disagree with Rush on this somewhat. I've been looking into the buying a hybrid (Lexus RX 400h SUV if you must know) and have to say that if nothing else, it is incredibly cool. The thing has features and style that you can't get in anything else. It may not save me any money but so what. Most of these hybrids are also 'look at me' statements.
    Actually your stating exactly what he states. Its the cool factor not the savings.
    I have nothing against the womens movement. Especially when Im walking behind it.


  12. #12
    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rush Limbaugh
    Oh so now Toyota is a :wub: comany that uses crap ripoff technology. I guess next you will be telling me its an American car.
    Pay attention!

    The article states that:
    Let us assure you that the Prius remains one of the most fuel-efficient cars on the road.
    See, good, efficient car.
    It's just overpriced, that's the problem.



  13. #13

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    Ford F-150 and the Silvarado are the best selling vehicles in the world. They are rightly so, we make the best utility trucks. Too bad detroit can't replicate that with cars.

    I find it funny that the origional GTO was made to be the nice sports car that a kid or young person can afford to show off. Now if you are a kid and can afford a GTO you have to have a HUGE pocketbook.
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  14. #14
    the_mango55's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanaric
    Ford F-150 and the Silvarado are the best selling vehicles in the world. They are rightly so, we make the best utility trucks. Too bad detroit can't replicate that with cars.

    I find it funny that the origional GTO was made to be the nice sports car that a kid or young person can afford to show off. Now if you are a kid and can afford a GTO you have to have a HUGE pocketbook.
    not to mention that the new GTO is ugly as hell.

    not only that, but this "American Icon" muscle car is designed and manufactured in Australia. :laughing:
    ttt
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  15. #15

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    I tend to believe we do need alternative fuel sources. But I'll be damned if the Govt or society is going to force it on me when there is still plenty of fossil fuel left (although they won't let us retreive it) and there is zero proof the weather changes are man made.

    Robert Kennedy can kiss my arse with his private jets and his limos. Gawd, what a hypocrit.

    It's high time we figure out a way to run cars on cat farts though, because fossil fuel isn't going to last forever, and frankly it is smelly, even if it's not a global threat.
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  16. #16

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    Robert Kennedy can kiss my arse with his private jets and his limos. Gawd, what a hypocrit.
    How else do fat rich politicians who lie out of their ass travel?

    It's high time we figure out a way to run cars on cat farts though
    Methane can power cars, we just need to hook a tube to every cows ass and we could travel to Alpha Centauri on that energy.

    I saw MANY "natural gas" busses when I went to DC.
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  17. #17

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    Rush, You may have been in a hurry, and didn't properly read my response, but the items you're supposedly correcting me on were rhetorical and semantical issues, not the least of which is one that I answered myself in my own post (ie: "where's the letter").

    Pay attention yourself, mister!

    Do you not have any response to my actual post?

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