End of the trivial war on drugs!

[Denny Crane!]

(Before I start I am not condoning or advocating the use of illegal substances. They are still illegal, and any intoxicating substance is dangerous in my belief and should be treated with caution.)

In the news today I read about proposals to effectivley decriminalise drugs from cannabis to heroin on the user level. In fact on the user level and the small small time dealer level, as the amount they are proposing to allow you to carry is pretty ludicrously high.

This makes perfect sense. The amount of processing it takes to prosecute somebody carrying or using means it is not worthwhile prosecuting someone with a small amount of drugs.

The other point is there is no way they could ever win the war on drugs. The people dealing and using the drugs outnumber the police exponentially, and the major drug dealers have a much higher budget, determination and manpower. In all the years cannabis has been illegal the amount of users has not declined but has risen dramatically. The same could be said for any other drug.

There is very little difference between some banned substances and legal drugs in terms of lethality, in fact some of them are remarkably safer even when abused. Control rather than prohibition seems more sensible. I believe it is a question of priorities in policing, and also knowing when you are fighting a losing battle.

Thoughts on this?

Peter

[Francisco Montana]

My thought is this belongs in the Mud Pit.

As far as legalizing drugs on the user level, I've heard retired police officers advocate it. One was on a whirlwind tour of the country on his motobike, as a matter of fact.

I think we spend way to much money punishing people for doing stupid, but not terribley harmful things.

I know the arguement, Marijuana leads to harder drugs. But I reject that theory, from 1st hand experience (I didn't say that!)

Heroine, well gesh. I've never in my life considered doing that drug. I cannot, seeing its destructiveness 1st hand, condone or advocate legalizing it on any level whatsoever.

Call me an old fashioned conservative, but I hope you see I'm not being one.

[Justinian]

My thought is, you are right.

Moved.

[leeho730]

As far as legalizing drugs on the user level, I've heard retired police officers advocate it. One was on a whirlwind tour of the country on his motobike, as a matter of fact.

Are you referring to Jack Cole? He has my respect.

http://www.reconsider.org/asp/biogra...SpeakerID=1662

Anyway I'm with you, cowen70, with an exception of heroine (it should be prescribed).

[Francisco Montana]

(it should be prescribed).

For what?

(and btw, you may have something here, I just need to pick it apart a little)

Ok this is a pet peeve of mine. It is never a good idea to just say "drugs" and lump all of them under the sun into one category. There is no comparison between marijuana and heroin for example (not heroinne, I think thats a female superhero...). For example, a rational person (like, hey, me) could be for the decriminilization of marijuana but against the decriminilization of drugs like heroin, cocaine and dangerous basement brews such as LSD or Ecstasy.

I agree with you RZZZA, as that's pretty much my stand now. But then there are also others among us (I'm so tempted to follow suite and say "Well, HUH, LIKE ME", but I won't. :wink: ) who are willing to really sit down and discuss all possible solutions to our problems.

The fact is, POT is one of our least worries and smallest problems.

Meth, Herroinne, this is destroying our youth and our cities as we speak.

We need to do something.

That is, I suppose, what this thread is aimed at serving.


EDIT --- OH, and btw, I do understand that the original post proposed 'user end' decriminalization. The fact that it's not legal to sell, but they aren't going to throw you in jail for using it. But rather, give you treatment. This might work too, I'm not brushing it aside, just expanding upon it.

[leeho730]

For what?

For treating terminal sickness or drug addiction.

If you didn't realise, heroine or morphine is not uncommon in medical practice.

I won't be surprised if doctors have some heroine or morphine ampules in the cupboard or the storage room, as doctors can LEGALLY obtain these substances (including cocaine).

About cannibis: sleeping pill is a quite addictive and psychotic drug but people don't go to jail for abusing it...

[RZZZA]

Yep its true Alameda, and many police forces across the country feel the exact same way and regularly turn a blind eye to small amounts of marijuana found on a suspect...IF that suspect cooperates of course, heh. My brother was a victim of drugs like heroin, cocaine and ecstasy so Ive seen first hand just how dangerous these drugs are. I agree that Meth is the new crack and these are the drugs that threaten society the most right now. I also am huigely suspcious of people who claim that legalizing all drugs actually makes people use them less. This sounds extremely ill-informed and radical to me. I mean I'm liberal, but I'm not THAT liberal.

[Polemides]

My thoughts about the "War on Drugs" are the same as those I have about Prohibition. It is a useless waste of time, money, and lives.

[Erik]

Let's see:



I rest my case.

[RZZZA]

The War on Drugs is an example of mixed up priorities with Americans and the American government. Its part of the many "wars" we've declared on percieved ills of society that we fight in quite a half-assed and two-faced way. When someone says "War on Drugs" I picture U.S. soldiers shooting across a field at bags of marijuana. It was nothing than political pandering when U.S. government officials mention the "War on Drugs" or the "War on Poverty" or the "War on Obesity" or whatever war America is declaring this month. IMO, it is much wiser to focus our efforts on poverty rather than obesity or drugs. ESPECIALLY drugs like Marijuana which should not be classified as a schedule 1 substance. American police forces have (On T.V. no less) done things such as...fly out to hawaii and destroy some guys harvest of marijuana. Thr U.S. has also been responsible for flying planes over entire crop fields and tossing down chemicals to kill the offending crop. This type of action in the "War on Drugs" is completely selfish and shortsighted, especially when you take into account that some nations may have a large part of their economy dependant on the production of such drugs...like Columbia or Afghanistan. On the one hand, American government takes steps to eradicate such trade but on the other hand, the American people are the very customers that make such trade profitable.

[Last Roman]

I rest my case.

what was your case in the first place?

[Denny Crane!]

Edit; Never mind someone got my reply before I did

Strange that banning something makes it more popular.

If anyone else thinks the fact that cannabis is illegal but alcahol isn't you can thank the Catholic church. They criminalised it when they associated it with devil worship, our distrust of it stems from that. Not so in India though, it is very widely "sampled".

Peter

[Zuwxiv]

Let's see:



I rest my case.

Wow. I new it had a similar effect, but I didn't know it was that large. And a legitimate source as well.

Just today I heard someone who said that the Netherlands was the house of sin, or something like that. Stupid ignorant Americans. Give the rest of us a bad name...

[Francisco Montana]

Stupid ignorant Americans. Give the rest of us a bad name...

There are stupid people in every country, stop singling our's out. Makes you look so self-loathing.

"Stupid, ignorant people. Give us all a bad name!"

See that wasn't hard.

[Rush Limbaugh]

Too many people look at this issue with their hearts and not with thier heads. This is how I see it:

1) Illegal drugs cause a miniscule amount of deaths compared to smoking tobacco and drinking.
2) We are losing (actually, we have lost) the war on drugs.
3) Any money that is generated by drugs now goes straight to drug lords.
4) Illegal drugs cause a other illegal behaviour
5) Due to the illegal nature of these drugs the quality is suspect and some people actually get poisoned by the impurities.
6) Drugs have only been made illegal in a relatively recent period of time (during 19th century).

When prohibition was attempted it was an abject failure - lessons learnt here should be applied this modern day problem - they are earily similar.

Drugs are nasty. I do not condone their use. But our present policy is simply failing and the collapse of this policy seems to be escalating.If drugs are brought into the system it would have the following effects:
1) Decrminialise a large section of the population
2) Taxation can be used to bolster the health services
3) The cost of policing can be reduced or (even better) the resources placed more efficiently.
4) Countries that currently produce these drugs (Columbia and Afghanistan stand out) can acutally make use of the revenue and use it to improve their lot.

We have to recognise that people will always take drugs. Netherlands' experience suggest that the processs mught be advantageous in that the number of users actually go down. It is dangerous, though, to extrapolait based on one example.
:

OMG whats the world coming to? We almost totally agree.
And I even agree with Erik

Legalizing REDUCES drug use, so leagalizing drug is good ESPECIALLY when they are dangerous.

Take the coolness out of it and it will return to where it was before we made these outrageous drug laws. You can buy poison over the counter for heavens sake. Not only that these laws have been used to raise an army of police and taken away far more of our civil liberties than the Patriot act or anything else in US history .

[Scar Face]

Let's see:



I rest my case.

Why isn't canada in there the used would be to the top and would the ''last month'' one.. God bless canada. Seriously though if any of you come to Canada GET WEED we have the most potent weed in the world. Don't dispute it America you know it's true. **** speicla British Columbia it is the strongest weed out there . Basacally it's because 90% of our farms are weed farms...and cause it's legeal unless you have 25 ounces (or grams) can't remmeber. The only way you would have more is if your a drug dealer so hoorah Canada!!


EDIT: am I correct in the assumption that canabis= weed Because in canada it's just called weed so.. I wouldn't really know well anyways you people call it weed that's it's proper name !

[RZZZA]

Weed, herb, dro, chronic, grass, endo, lye, mary jane, hydro...if its grown like that. Thats about all I've heard it called around Chicago. Also in Russian....trava...which is russian for grass.

[Francisco Montana]

Why isn't canada in there the used would be to the top and would the ''last month'' one.. God bless canada. Seriously though if any of you come to Canada GET WEED we have the most potent weed in the world. Don't dispute it America you know it's true. **** speicla British Columbia it is the strongest weed out there . Basacally it's because 90% of our farms are weed farms...and cause it's legeal unless you have 25 ounces (or grams) can't remmeber. The only way you would have more is if your a drug dealer so hoorah Canada!!


EDIT: am I correct in the assumption that canabis= weed Because in canada it's just called weed so.. I wouldn't really know well anyways you people call it weed that's it's proper name !

No, you are correct, weed=herb=canabis=pot=marijuana=mary jane

Anyway, yes, Canada is a formitable weed producer. It's their number one export in the west (just surpassed lumber I believe) and it's a huge problem for us in California.

He's also correct, it's the most potent stuff out there.

[Scar Face]

No, you are correct, weed=herb=canabis=pot=marijuana=mary jane

Anyway, yes, Canada is a formitable weed producer. It's their number one export in the west (just surpassed lumber I believe) and it's a huge problem for us in California.

He's also correct, it's the most potent stuff out there.

Of course im right I'm a Candian!! Also my family does it...

EDIT: Why's it a promblem? I mean it's not a bad drug. It's a downer only. It doesn't make you do crazy things or impare your ability to drive (like some commericals would have you belive). All it does is make you a little tired and more calm? Or are you simply meaning that lots of people do it?

[1{H][NA]

Anyway, yes, Canada is a formitable weed producer. It's their number one export in the west (just surpassed lumber I believe) and it's a huge problem for us in California.

makes sense, since CANADA almost sounds like CANIBUS. anyways, i know a lot of people who dont see this as a problem :wink: