Kosova Status talks

[Besart]

I'm from kosovo and considering that the finla satus talks about the futer of kosovo have begun i was wonderigng what you all thought about it. Independece or autonomy or a third option


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosova

[Ldvs]

I assume people who don't live in a nearby region will not have as good an insight as you of the situation there. Thus, could you tell us what is your viewpoint?
Usually, I'm against the independence of small regions. Not because I don't recognise them as an entity but rather because their economy is bound not to be self-sufficient. If it's to live in poverty, what's the point of independence? Now, I don't live in Kosovo and therefore do not know your living standards. In all case, I can not imagine Kosovo being reintegrated into Serbia, since Albanians represent nearly 90% of the whole population. I see autonomy as the only viable alternative.

[Besart]

I assume people who don't live in a nearby region will not have as good an insight as you of the situation there. Thus, could you tell us what is your viewpoint?
Usually, I'm against the independence of small regions. Not because I don't recognise them as an entity but rather because their economy is bound not to be self-sufficient. If it's to live in poverty, what's the point of independence? Now, I don't live in Kosovo and therefore do not know your living standards. In all case, I can not imagine Kosovo being reintegrated into Serbia, since Albanians represent nearly 90% of the whole population. I see autonomy as the only viable alternative.

Well as an albanian i support independece like most if not all albanians
The ecomnomy dosn't have to be entierly selfsuficent either The are plenty of natural resources in the country so that dosn't have to be a problem
The autonomy option was what we hade up until the 80's but milosevic stopped that and up until somewhere in the early 90's that was all most albanians in kosova wanted to be abel to govern our selves to not be seen as second class citizens we simply wanted that back but police crackdaown on political activists and albanians in general resulted in the formation of the KLA (Kosova liberation Army) which in turn led to more police actions which resulted in support of the kla and ended in war
Reintegration was never an option becaus we have never seen eye to eye with the serbs

[Ldvs]

The ecomnomy dosn't have to be entierly selfsuficent either The are plenty of natural resources in the country so that dosn't have to be a problem

Of course, but how long before they run out? If your economy relied on tourism there wouldn't be any problems. In case, your country is to achieve independence I hope your leaders have plans to industrialise the region.

The autonomy option was what we hade up until the 80's but milosevic stopped that

Fortunately, he's no longer there to cause trouble. With luck the current Serbian government body will be more conciliatory.

[Besart]

Of course, but how long before they run out? If your economy relied on tourism there wouldn't be any problems. In case, your country is to achieve independence I hope your leaders have plans to industrialise the region.


Fortunately, he's no longer there to cause trouble. With luck the current Serbian government body will be more conciliatory.

Kosova has alot of potential the natural resouresce i see as more of a place to start and tourism could happen because the country is where interesting geographically (atleast to me) unfortunatly i don't know waht plans the leaders have in the economy area becuase much of the political debatt concerns the issue of independence

about the current serbian goverment although i am hoping they are better than the last i is becoming clearer to me that they have the same attitude towards us and other minorits in serbia (see hungarian domintaed region of voivodina) are still mistreated teh differnce now is they have softend their words because their is such a huge internationell presence

[Rush Limbaugh]

I say give it back to the Serbs.

[RusskiSoldat]

Keep it part of Serbia.
I'd rather there is one big country than a lot of small ones made from that big one, as the former is much more likely to be organized and efficient than the latter, also they'd have less competition.
EDIT:

Albanians are some of the most dishonest and vile people on the face of the earth

I take it you've never had to deal with with Chechens?

[Besart]

Keep it part of Serbia.
I'd rather there is one big country than a lot of small ones made from that big one, as the former is much more likely to be organized and efficient than the latter, also they'd have less competition.
EDIT:

I take it you've never had to deal with with Chechens?

Well no offence but you are russin i assume bu your name Russia is the bigger brother of serbia you allways support them

[Rush Limbaugh]

it was supposed to go to albanian becaus it was inhabitet by albanians

I beg to differ-Garb

Kosovo has been a part of Serbia since there was a Serbia. Almost 1,000 years ago it was the Roman Emperor of Constantinople, Constantine Porphyrogenitos, who established the Serbian Kingdom in Kosovo. The faith, culture and civilization of Serbia are based on the Greek civilization of Constantinople. Constantinople is the foundation and basic model of all Christian nations. You must understand that Kosovo is not only dear to Serbians but she is dear to all Orthodox Christians in particular Greek Orthodox Christians. Kosovo is the heart and soul of Serbian Orthodox Christian civilization. The most ancient and revered religious and cultural monuments of that civilization are to be found throughout Kosovo. Your doing to them what we did to the Indians. Again we are supporting the very islamic terrorists we decalred war on. And against a christain nation.This makes no sense at all.

Wednesday, November 17, 1999


[Emphasis added]
LONDON -- Islamic fundamentalists as well as several leading politicians in Albania are believed to be helping Saudi billionaire fugitive Osama Bin Laden find a new place of refuge, Arab sources said this week.

The sources said Western intelligence agencies believe Bin Laden is in contact with supporters in Albania and Kosovo in an attempt to find a new refuge amid heavy United States pressure on the Taliban ruling faction in Afghanistan to surrender Bin Laden.

For the United States, the sources said, the problem is compounded by links Bin Laden has formed with Albanian politicians. They said Bin Laden has bought several key politicians who have looked away from the activities of his supporters in Albania.

LINK

And would you like to discuss the KLA?

[Besart]

Bull

Kosovo has been a part of Serbia since there was a Serbia. Almost 1,000 years ago it was the Roman Emperor of Constantinople, Constantine Porphyrogenitos, who established the Serbian Kingdom in Kosovo. The faith, culture and civilization of Serbia are based on the Greek civilization of Constantinople. Constantinople is the foundation and basic model of all Christian nations. You must understand that Kosovo is not only dear to Serbians but she is dear to all Orthodox Christians in particular Greek Orthodox Christians. Kosovo is the heart and soul of Serbian Orthodox Christian civilization. The most ancient and revered religious and cultural monuments of that civilization are to be found throughout Kosovo. Your doing to them what we did to the Indians. Again we are supporting the very islamic terrorists we decalred war on. And against a christain nation.This makes no sense at all.



LINK

And would you like to discuss the KLA?

i don't want to get in on the whole history of kosova although you are correct about it being a place of great importance for christianity i doen't mena that it is automatcally serbian the albanians used to be christian infact we were ortodox christians before the ottoman invasion but due to certain policys inside the ottoman empire alot of us convertad

agaain we are not in any way religous because that we mena our people would be divided inte 3 camps muslim catolic and ortodox and we have allways tried to keep a certain unity concerning the aricel the problem is more corruption in albania rather than islamic fundematlism communism turned albania to what it is today. if you read i says that the person suspected of terrorist activitis was arrested now we would arrest him if we liked him now would we. concerning the KLA we can discuss that all you want i have hade contact with numorous members and i know many personally

[Dromikaites]

It makes sense to unite Kosovo with Albania since they share a common border and the majority of the people in Kosovo are Albanians.

The fact Kosovo was part of the Serbian kingdom is irrelevant for several reasons:
1) In case of a dispute, the borders are drawn according to the ethinc structure of the population;
2) Serbians came to the Balkans, the Albanians are a native population of the Balkans. That is, if one wants to discuss about that fantasy notion called "historic rights". Since 1918 historic rights don't matter anymore when talking about borders. Ethnic structure does.
3) Neither Serbia nor Albania will join the EU any time soon. If they were both to join EU tomorrow borders wouldn't have mattered. How many people really care if Alsace and Lorraine are German or French or if Schesslwig-Holstein is German or Danish (to name a few famous territorial disputes in Western Europe)? Borders don't matter because minorities are not persecuted in EU, so a border basically only says who pays taxes where and nothing else. At this moment Serbia still has issues when it comes to minorities' rights. This sensitivity is understandable to a point, given Serbia's recent history. However the Serbian politicians and a sizeable part of the population still seems to miss the point that mistreating the minorities got Serbia in the situation it is now in the first place.

While I never went to Serbia and Kosovo I witnessed how the Albanians were treated in Macedonia in December '95. I was going by bus from Sofia to Skoplje. At the border with Macedonia the border guards looked at the names of the Macedonian citizens in the bus, separated the ones with Albanian names and took them out for a thorough luggage and body search. When one Albanian protested and asked why, the border guard said "You Albanians travel too much so you know why" (I speak Bugarian which is similar to Macedonian so I know what was said). This and several other incidents involving discrimination against the Albanians in Macedonia prompted me to tell to some Macedonian friends "You'll be in a lot of trouble soon". Well, I was wrong by 4 years.

[Hamelkart]

Make it independant. It should stay part of Serbia if those two people find a common language, but knowing that Serbian soldiers have tendency to terrorize Kosovian population, it's better that Kosovo becomes free nation.

So, Rush, let me get this straight; your main argument is "If the nation's main religion is Islam, they're terrorists.", right?

[wilpuri]

Divide between Serbia and Albania or between Serbia and independent Albanian Kosovo. If Kosovo is made independent, the Serbs (who haven't left already) will leave, same if it is joined with albania. Its a pity Serbia will inevitably lose land so historically bound to it.

[Hamelkart]

Well yes, that is a pitty. A nation should always keep their inherited land, but that's no reason to exterminate minorities in that particular part of territory.

[eizo]

Make it independant. It should stay part of Serbia if those two people find a common language, but knowing that Serbian soldiers have tendency to terrorize Kosovian population, it's better that Kosovo becomes free nation.

So, Rush, let me get this straight; your main argument is "If the nation's main religion is Islam, they're terrorists.", right?

Tell me what the **** do you know about Serbian soldiers ,oh yeah you probably watched CNN or BBC, if you are that stupid try not to make so much noise.
CIA hahh you mean the same CIA that is still trying to destroy Serbian ,and **** up whole region,and the same thing they did to many other states,yes they are a great source...

Is anybody here who is thinking normaly, spliting a state ??? ,ok i get out of the plane in france buy a house and declare my house independant ...

[Hamelkart]

No, actually I saw them. Well, not exactly them but their planes and ships. Bombs and grenades weren't falling far from me. Not to mention J-22 plane makes quite a noise when flying over your head. So, unlike you I have seen war in all its "glory".
Oh yeah, and my mother was lucky that she entered the city 15 minutes early, otherwise she would have been killed by Serbian tanks.

Or maybe I have to post some pictures or videos of Serbian soldiers in all their light?

Besides, I read your posts about Bosnians not being a nation, Albanian murderers etc. so telling me I'm stupid won't solve a thing. I wasn't insulting Serbs as people but their crazy, murdering military and paramilitary units who participated in "liberations" of Vukovar, Srebrenica and other surrounded cities.

[Rush Limbaugh]

The facts are that this is a leftover from the coldwar. Its the old use the Muslim extremeist to fight the communist again. In fact its the same bunch that were fighting the Russians in Afgahnastan. THe CIA did indeed train these so called soldiers.


Replaying NATO's Greatest Hits

Let us stipulate the following: If NATO – the greatest military force in the world – wished to stop the ethnic Albanian insurgency in Southern Serbia and Macedonia it would do so. If the KLA believed for one moment that its insurgencies were likely to push NATO into abandoning Kosovo it would wind them up. The conclusion is inevitable: The KLA launched the two insurgencies in the full certainty that they would enjoy tacit, if not explicit, NATO – and that, of course, means United States – support. Let us further stipulate the following: The objective of the KLA is to detach chunks of Serbia and Macedonia and to attach them to a future state of Greater Albania. NATO leaders furthermore know this to be the case. Another conclusion is inevitable. Greater Albania is very much in conformity with US plans for the Balkans.

This is bad policy by us.

THE SUNDAY TIMES, Sunday, March 12, 2000

CIA aided Kosovo guerrilla army
Tom Walker and Aidan Laverty

AMERICAN intelligence agents have admitted they helped to train the Kosovo Liberation Army before Nato's bombing of Yugoslavia. The disclosure angered some European diplomats, who said this had undermined moves for a political solution to the conflict between Serbs and Albanians.

Central Intelligence Agency officers were ceasefire monitors in Kosovo in 1998 and 1999, developing ties with the KLA and giving American military training manuals and field advice on fighting the Yugoslav army and Serbian police.

When the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE), which co-ordinated the monitoring, left Kosovo a week before airstrikes began a year ago, many of its satellite telephones and global positioning systems were secretly handed to the KLA, ensuring that guerrilla commanders could stay in touch with Nato and Washington. Several KLA leaders had the mobile phone number of General Wesley Clark, the Nato commander.

European diplomats then working for the OSCE claim it was betrayed by an American policy that made airstrikes inevitable. Some have questioned the motives and loyalties of William Walker, the American OSCE head of mission.

"The American agenda consisted of their diplomatic observers, aka the CIA, operating on completely different terms to the rest of Europe and the OSCE," said a European envoy.

Several Americans who were directly involved in CIA activities or close to them have spoken to the makers of Moral Combat, a documentary to be broadcast on BBC2 tonight, and to The Sunday Times about their clandestine roles. Walker dismissed suggestions that he had wanted war in Kosovo, but admitted the CIA was almost certainly involved in the countdown to airstrikes.

Link

[Ummon]

I'd say split it (just the same I would say with Bosnia).

[Hamelkart]

I'd say split it (just the same I would say with Bosnia).

Good thing it's not up to you guys to decide. Because Bosnia is home of the xenophobic muslims and worst sort of nationalist Serbs and Croats (Herzegovians) - this spoken by a Croat, but the things are better than they were few years ago, so there's no reason to split in the old world war style.

[Rush Limbaugh]

It makes sense to unite Kosovo with Albania since they share a common border and the majority of the people in Kosovo are Albanians

Now they are. I suppose we will have to make California part of Mexico soon going by this reasoning .