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  1. #1
    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Colonization of Mars: feasible, desirable, impossible?

    Mars Express Providing Evidence For Large Aquifers On Early Mars

    A HRSC 3D perspective view of Candor Chasma (in false colours) characterised by the infrared images of OMEGA. It shows bright and brown deposits (red markers) that are rich in the mineral kieserite, a hydrated magnesium sulphate. See larger image. Credits: ESA/OMEGA/HRSC.
    Paris (ESA) Dec 01, 2005


    The findings from the OMEGA instrument on board ESA's Mars Express are strongly indicating that liquid water must have been present, in a stable form, in Mars' early history, having implications for the planets climatic history, and questions of life in the past.
    These conclusions were drawn thanks to data on Martian surface minerals obtained by OMEGA (Observatoire pour la Mineralogy, l'Eau, les Glaces et l'Activite), the visible and infrared mapping spectrometer on board ESA's Mars Express.

    From previous observations, Mars must have undergone water-driven processes, which left their signature in surface structures such as channel systems and signs of extensive aqueous erosion. However, such observations do not necessarily imply the stable presence of liquid water on the surface over extended periods of time during the Martian history.

    The data collected by OMEGA unambiguously reveal the presence of specific surface minerals which imply the long-term presence of large amounts of liquid water on the planet.

    These 'hydrated' minerals, so called because they contain water in their crystalline structure, provide a clear 'mineralogical' record of water-related processes on Mars.

    During 18 months of observations OMEGA has mapped almost the entire surface of the planet, generally at a resolution between one and five kilometres, with some areas at sub-kilometre resolution.

    The instrument detected the presence of two different classes of hydrated minerals, 'phyllosilicates' and 'hydrated sulphates', over isolated but large areas on the surface.

    Both minerals are the result of a chemical alteration of rocks. However, their formation processes are very different and point to periods of different environmental conditions in the history of the planet.

    Phyllosilicates, so-called because of their characteristic structure in thin layers ('phyllo' = thin layer), are the alteration products of igneous minerals (minerals of magmatic origin) sustaining a long-term contact with water. An example of phyllosilicate is clay.

    Phyllosilicates were detected by OMEGA mainly in the Arabia Terra, Terra Meridiani, Syrtis Major, Nili Fossae and Mawrth Vallis regions, in the form of dark deposits or eroded outcrops.

    Hydrated sulphates, the second major class of hydrated minerals detected by OMEGA, are also minerals of aqueous origin. Unlike phyllosilicates, which form by an alteration of igneous rocks, hydrated sulphates are formed as deposits from salted water; most sulphates need an acid water environment to form. They were spotted in layered deposits in Valles Marineris, extended exposed deposits in Terra Meridiani, and within dark dunes in the northern polar cap.

    When did the chemical alteration of the surface that led to the formation of hydrated minerals occur? At what point of Mars's history was water standing in large quantities on the surface? OMEGA's scientists combined their data with those from other instruments and suggest a likely scenario of what may have happened.


    The OMEGA instrument on Mars Express has shown that the violent outflows that sculpted the Marwth Vallis on Mars did not form nor flood with hydrated minerals (left). However, their erosion exposed ancient terrains in which hydrated clay minerals were detected, which trace back an early era with liquid water (right) See larger image. Credits: ESA/OMEGA/HRSC
    "The clay-rich, phyllosilicate deposits we have detected were formed by alteration of surface materials in the very earliest times of Mars," says Jean-Pierre Bibring, OMEGA Principal Investigator.

    "The altered material must have been buried by subsequent lava flows we observe around the spotted areas. Then, the material would have been exposed by erosion in specific locations or excavated from an altered crust by meteoritic impacts," Bibring adds.

    Analysis of the surrounding geological context, combined with the existing crater counting techniques to calculate the relative age of surface features on Mars, places the formation of phyllosilicates in the early Noachian era, during the intense cratering period. The Noachian era, lasting from the planet's birth to about 3.8 thousand million years ago, is the first and most ancient of the three geological eras on Mars.

    "An early active hydrological system must have been present on Mars to account for the large amount of clays, or phyllosilicates in general, that OMEGA has observed," says Bibring.

    The long-term contact with liquid water that led to the phyllosilicate formation could have existed and be stable at the surface of Mars, if the climate was warm enough. Alternatively, the whole formation process could have occurred through the action of water in a warm, thin crust.

    OMEGA data also show that the sulphate deposits are distinct from, and have been formed after, the phyllosilicate ones. To form, sulphates do not need a particularly long-term presence of liquid water, but water must be there and it must be acidic.

    The detection and mapping of these two different kinds of hydrated minerals point to two major climatic episodes in the history of Mars: an early - Noachian - moist environment in which phyllosilicates formed, followed by a more acid environment in which the sulphates formed. These two episodes were separated by a Mars global climatic change.

    "If we look at today's evidence, the era in which Mars could have been habitable and sustained life would be the early Noachian, traced by the phyllosilicates, rather than the sulphates. The clay minerals we have mapped could still retain traces of a possible biochemical development on Mars," Bibring concludes.
    So, discuss.

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    U sure this is Mud-Pit material, and not just General Forum?
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    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Alameda
    U sure this is Mud-Pit material, and not just General Forum?
    You might be right, but a huge and costly space program is a political issue as well.

    Besides, we need a science forum.

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    Alameda, you used 'u'!! Octavian will disown you now!

    I think Mars is actually far more interesting in a historical context then in a 'let's go colonize Mars' context - if millions of years ago it was habitable, there had to have been things living on Mars.

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    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Well, consider that if there is water, there is an atmosphere, and there is significant gravity (the latter two we already know), it may become a place to exploit economically, and to live in. Only, it will take centuries, and billions and billions of dollars, which maybe the poor would like to invest otherwise.

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    Only real reasons I can think of for moving to Mars is for energy (there must be some), which would mean billions of dollars spent getting there and billions more taking it and getting it back, and overpopulation.

    And there are far cheaper ways to deal with overpopulation (and I don't mean lining them up against the wall)

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    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ummon
    Only, it will take centuries, and billions and billions of dollars, which maybe the poor would like to invest otherwise.
    Although I'm not against space exploration (unmanned missions) I would say time is a prohibitive factor for space colonisation. It seems unlikely that any institution could sustain an operation more or less continuously for decades, let alone centuries or millennia. IMHO any suggestion that colonisation of space could solve any problems on earth in the near future, can safely be dismissed.

    Muizer

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    I would love to see menkind take to other planets. I do think that it will benefit a new age of exploration and development. How many techniques we wouldn't want to miss nowadays are due to the race for space during the 60's.

    Ah...and just to show you this: The little Mars Rovers Spirit and Opportunity are still up and running after 1 marsian year:

    http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/
    Last edited by Boudicca; December 01, 2005 at 02:20 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boudicca
    I would love to see mankind take to other planets.

    You will. And if you don't, your children will.

    If we don't do it eventually, we're done for as a species.

    We'll probably use close by planets at 1st, just to get the whole 'colonizing a planet' thing down.

    But eventually we're going to have to figure out a way to get past the limitations of modern science and venture outside our galaxy.

    At very least, it may end up something like Battlestart Galactica where we wonder around in planet-like spacecraft endlessly searching for a new homeland (or was it Earth they were looking for?)

    Of course, I'm talking way into the distant future. But as a history enthusiast, I do tend to think of things in the bigger picture.

    Or try to at least.
    Faithfully under the patronage of the fallen yet rather amiable Octavian.

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    I do like battlestar Galactica too. It has never been translated into German, at least not that I know. A friend of mine brought me the DVD from England. Taking to other planets might become a question of survival soon. What if the human race does run of resources on this planet? Won't we at least have to try to find and settles elsewhere.

    The fact that the Mars Rovers are still working after almost two years of earth time do show to me (at least I think that) that the climate on Mars can't be so radically difficult that nothing could stand some time there. I don't know in how far gamma rays from space would be a problem there?
    From the pride and arrogance of the Romans nothing is sacred. But the vindictive gods are now at hand. On this spot we must either conquer, or die with glory (Boudiccas Speech, Tacitus, Annals, XIV, 35)

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    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boudicca
    How many techniques we wouldn't want to miss nowadays are due to the race for space during the 60's.
    And how many techniques we wouldn't want to miss are due to two world wars and a cold war? Apologies for the rhetorical question, but I think it illustrates well that the spin off argument can't really stand on its own. I'm not saying that's what you said, but I have come across people who did. I think that to "sell" space exploration to the tax payer you have to argue that it is, in itself, a good investment. Personally I'm not convinced at all. I'd rather see precious resources spent on ensuring our future on this planet. First things first. Once that's done, yes, lets go into space. Still it will probably be easier to adapt ourselves to space by transcendiing into some inorganic AI than to adapt space to our biological selves by trying to construct self sustaining ecologies in space craft a la Galactica.

    Muizer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muizer
    And how many techniques we wouldn't want to miss are due to two world wars and a cold war? Apologies for the rhetorical question, but I think it illustrates well that the spin off argument can't really stand on its own. I'm not saying that's what you said, but I have come across people who did. I think that to "sell" space exploration to the tax payer you have to argue that it is, in itself, a good investment. Personally I'm not convinced at all. I'd rather see precious resources spent on ensuring our future on this planet. First things first. Once that's done, yes, lets go into space. Still it will probably be easier to adapt ourselves to space by transcendiing into some inorganic AI than to adapt space to our biological selves by trying to construct self sustaining ecologies in space craft a la Galactica.

    Muizer
    I hate to say it as I am no fan of war.

    War excellerated these fields up until now.

    Maybe now if we have the wherewithall and the desire, we can learn to build on it without war to excellerate it.

    Before you say I'm crazy, far from. Think V-2.

    (Can anyone say grand design? Good Lord, lessons are so painful to learn sometimes. But a good educator teaches us anyway --for our own good! Ok, now this belongs in the EthoLounge. )
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    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Yet, while the costs, risks and times are immense, this was true for the colonization of America in the past, as well.

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    A lot more people were willing to leave Europe. How many want to leave Earth and go to Mars?

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    Darkragnar's Avatar Member of Ordo Malleus
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    Well u can use mars as a jump off point for further exploration outwards in the solar system too.
    as im sure it has huge reserves of hydrogen,which is used in rockect fuel.
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    Darkragnar's Avatar Member of Ordo Malleus
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    Hell ill propably do it just for a chance to go into outerspace.
    but seriously as Pressure builds up on our planet's resources and balance the next logical step would be to expand ,its been done all throughout history too.
    and i think the only variable in this equation is when, not the can it.
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    You're absolutely correct PacSubCom. Mining and making space travel profitable is a rudimentary step in the quest for species survival, which comes most likely 100s if not 1000s of years further down the road.

    You're also correct that Mars is a very unlikely candidate for colonization. But if it's the only plausable place to 'practice' colonization, I bet we go ahead and do for that reason alone.

    Ahhh, this reminds me of my "Something to make your brain burst" thread over at History Alive.

    Love this stuff. Almost as much as I love history.
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    Mars is what America was to the Europeans...a unknown. Before anything happens we have to actually land men on Mars...and the rest will be history.

    Colonisation I think would take place on a small scale like the colonies of scientists in Antartica, there must be some kind of raw energy source that we can use on Mars, of this Im sure. And when this energy source is found in comes the infarstructure.
    "In bourgeois society capital is independent and has individuality, while the living person is dependent and has no individuality." - Karl Marx on Capitalism
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    The colonization is the natural next step to exploration. We need resources, if they exist in mars - a planet that could USE some global warming - we could even help the environment, lol.

    IMO when it comes to the point where India and China start competing with the US Mars, AND the moon for that matter, will become important. Right now politicians are not too much into long term goals. The first group to put a city on mars will be the inheritors of the human civilization. Or they will have the most spoken language in the galaxy, almost like Spanish is on earth. Isn't that why EVERYTHING is in Chinese on that show Firefly?
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  20. #20

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    I do not understand why Mars would not be excellent target for colonization beyond being stepping stone...

    We have overpopulation, I do not put it beyond humanity to seek to force the "unwanted" elements into colonization at first, creating less strain for Earth. And once we can exploit the outer solar system there is still issue of distance. Mars is further out so it is much easier target for production of supplies and, at first, having industries. Eventually most likely industry will try to move even closer to original source of materials but Mars would benefit from period when materials are mined and trasported to Mars and again ready products would be moved to Earth. During that period Mars would end up with great economical boost at the expense of Earth.

    So, on very long term thinking, who owns Mars gets the profit from Earth. And then who controls the outer system profits from both Mars and Earth.


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