There should be no TW games based outside of europe

[Barbarian Nobility]

Everytime there is a TW based outside of Europe people seem to complain about how boring it is going to be, discuss at lengths how they won't be purchasing it, and generally make degrading comments about how much that non-european country had such a little role in world history. My personal opinion is that the assumptions are more often than not based on ignorance or lack of knowledge about said culture/period of history. Conversely I also believe that some gamers are genuinely not interested, but these don't seem to put up anywhere near as much of an outcry about how much they hate CA, will never buy another game again, and will otherwise ritualistically set themselves on fire in front of SEGA's office etc. So im interested to garner the TWCenter communities opinion on this. This isn't a flame or troll so please don't do either here.

[Mithiras]

At first I thought this was completely different from what you wanted to say. I think you're on the side of "Europe isn't the center of the world" side. I completely agree. China has made Europe rich in the renaissance. Same with Japan. If it weren't for the new world (north America, south America) Things here would be completely different. I love the fact that they're getting out of Europe and I hope they do it again and again, because Europe we all know (or some people think they know) the history of it. Compared to the middle east, china, japan. People don't know as much about it as they could. Asian history is really fascinating and is the most ideal part of the world for Total war games. There was never really peace in Asia at any time for a long time. So much warfare = a greater game and also historical accuracy! +Rep OP

[Barbarian Nobility]

@Mithiris

I think that you touched upon a very important point which is that Europe in the ancient, middle ages, enlightenment and even today is inextricably linked with the Far East. The axis of the worlds intellectual, military and financial wealth for the longest time rested in the Far East. This balance did not shift West until 1492 with Europes discovery of the New World, coupled with the fact that the world was actually ROUND and that Europeans could gain access to those lucrative Eastern markets without first having to traverse over thousands of kilometres of hostile Turkish/Tartar territory. So in this respect Western dominance has only been recent and in my opinion will be short lived, but that's the subject of another thread.

[craziii]

first total war game = shogun. sega bought ca for the western markets. it is the truth. I don't think veteran tw gamers here belittles any country's culture. don't get where you get that from.

[Barbarian Nobility]

first total war game = shogun. sega bought ca for the western markets. it is the truth. I don't think veteran tw gamers here belittles any country's culture. don't get where you get that from.

The fact that roughly half of the posts in threads such as 'what next for TW' etc. are all about how S2TW and other potential games based outside of Europe would suck etc.
I only started TW with RTW so I guess maybe that doesn't make me as good a fan as you?

[Mithiras]

The fact that roughly half of the posts in threads such as 'what next for TW' etc. are all about how S2TW and other potential games based outside of Europe would suck etc.
I only started TW with RTW so I guess maybe that doesn't make me as good a fan as you?

I see it too in a lot of the posts, asking why not Rome 2 Total War and their reasoning for it being "It is a better period of time" I'm not saying Rome is not a good period of time, but some people just want to be grumpy for the sake of being difficult to deal with. I'd like to play a rome remake, just theres many more things OTHER than Rome that we can look at which could very well be just as interesting as it. I've been a fan since the beginning with Shogun. It changed the way I play games, as I only really like the Total War style. RTS battles and Turned Based campaign. Maybe its cause I play warhammer and it reminds me of campaigns and battles while playing that.

[Xerrop]

Depends how you define Europe. Due to obvious reasons European history is always linked with North African and Near and Middle eastern ones. I would not mind to see even India in a future Rome2 or MTW3.

But the main customer base of TW are european and american players - they are familiar with european/western asian history and so will most likely choose a game set there instead of China.

The axis of the worlds intellectual, military and financial wealth for the longest time rested in the Far East. This balance did not shift West until 1492 with Europes discovery of the New World, coupled with the fact that the world was actually ROUND and that Europeans could gain access to those lucrative Eastern markets without first having to traverse over thousands of kilometres of hostile Turkish/Tartar territory. So in this respect Western dominance has only been recent and in my opinion will be short lived, but that's the subject of another thread.

Well the western world had also some impressive empires and was not always that backwards as you are trying to suggest.
We had the Mesopotamian civilizations, the Achaemenid Persian Empire, the Diadochi states, the Roman Empire, the Islamic Caliphate and the Italian City States in the high middle ages to name some rich and well developed ancient/medieval societies and cultures.

[Pinarius]

But the main customer base of TW are european and american players - they are familiar with european/western asian history and so will most likely choose a game set there instead of China.

Agreed, for the same reason historical films are also still very eurocentric (like they are now producing another "Three Musketeers" film, for example). Movies about the history of China on the other hand usually don't get as much attention in western countries appart from a few exceptions. This is surely changing by the fact that these western countries have more and more Asian immigrants and a declining number of people with European ancestry.

[craziii]

Well the western world had also some impressive empires and was not always that backwards as you are trying to suggest.
We had the Mesopotamian civilizations, the Achaemenid Persian Empire, the Diadochi states, the Roman Empire, the Islamic Caliphate and the Italian City States in the high middle ages to name some rich and well developed ancient/medieval societies and cultures.

well, I guess this is what the Op meant. you fit nicely.

[Barbarian Nobility]

Fair call, except that Mesopotamian civilizations, Persian dynasties, The Islamic Caliphate and most of the Diadochi states weren't European, they were West Asian.
But i never said that Europe was backwards, don't try putting words in my mouth.

[N3rull]

You completely missed the whole point, OP.

People's complains about the next TW going to suck come from the fact that a couple of previous ones proved to be, well, subpar in terms of quality. There was Rome and M2TW which were nice quality wise (though M2 had its issues), then there was the crappy ETW. People are wary because they don't want to buy another piece of junk strategy that confuses "end turn" with "crash to desktop" or which sports an AI so dumb that there is no other tactic known to it except "camp at hill" and "zerg rush player".

It is true that Rome TW was a VERY diverse and rich game because it sported so many factions that, unlike in any other period of history, were so different from each other. And so the game featured the Romans using mainly legions of perfectly organized men with large shields and short swords, aiming to protect the men until they are point blank with the enemy, where their weaponry gave them an advantage. There were the Greeks, who were all about forming a phalanx. There were the barbarians up north that were pretty much all about light armor, big axes and RAAAGHHH!!! tactics. There were the post-Alexander kingdoms utilizing pikemen, Egyptians with their chariots, Carthage with their elephants, Armenia with their OMGHOWMANY? horse archers and so on.
Almost every faction felt unique in their army composition and tactics. But this cannot really be replicated elsewhere. in Sengoku Jidai, all armies were pretty much about the same with varying amounts of certain unit types, differences being caused by abundance/shortage of certain resources in each region and the wishes of the warlord. In 18th century Europe (and the World in general), the warfare was almost exclusively about muskets - better organization, better drilling, better choice of battlefield and better weapons decided of victory. In medieval Europe things were a little brighter, but still it was just spearmen, sword-or-sth-like-it wielding multi-purpose infantry, light cavalry, heavy cavalry, archers and horse archers. Some Nations had more of one thing, others had more of something else, but it was still nothing too vastly different around the place.
That's why people want Rome2 so much. The DIVERSITY.


TLDR: People complain because they expect the next game to be crap, because ETW was crap. They also want R2TW because that period was unique in history - many Nations had vastly different approach to warfare those days. It didn't happen again because Romans conquered them all and set a standard for the future. That's why R2TW is so appealing to everyone.

[RO Citizen]

I voted for the 2nd option, although I don't like the Japan-only frame.

[Strattios]

I voted for the 2nd option, although I don't like the Japan-only frame.

I totally agree, a single nation with by and large a single culture seems way small scale. It's as if CA got paranoid over ETW's immense area and decided to do a complete 180. While some did complain of ETW's scope, I don't recall such complaints about any other game. It seems having at least one entire continent is the way to go (so long as it fits, not like North America 1900's Total War). I want variety and S2 seems to be lacking in that regard so far.

Also, I sincerely hope they don't continue the whole pattern of New Era, Remake Era, New Era, Remake Era, etc. that they seem to be doing (Not Counting NTW, I still consider that an Expansion, albeit a large one).

[jonny duck]

I totally agree, a single nation with by and large a single culture seems way small scale. It's as if CA got paranoid over ETW's immense area and decided to do a complete 180. While some did complain of ETW's scope, I don't recall such complaints about any other game. It seems having at least one entire continent is the way to go (so long as it fits, not like North America 1900's Total War). I want variety and S2 seems to be lacking in that regard so far.

Also, I sincerely hope they don't continue the whole pattern of New Era, Remake Era, New Era, Remake Era, etc. that they seem to be doing (Not Counting NTW, I still consider that an Expansion, albeit a large one).

I like to think of it as CA going back to their roots. As for whether the games should be Eurocentral, I think being anywhere Central is getting a bit dated. I would love to see a Rome era game spanning from Spain to Japan.

[Heathen Hammer]

Well, most of their target market are Europeans or people of European decent. Thus a bit of eurocentrism is expectable. I think they also tried that "going back to the roots" aspect by reviving the Shogun franchise, while keeping their douchebag attitude by replacing moddability with DLCs.

[Heavy Weapons Guy]

Europe FTW!

[Darth_Revan]

there are other things that are important to history that happened outside of europe so I voted to base some total war games outside of europe

[THEMIK DK]

europe is best but japan are fine

[Theseus1234]

How terribly Euro and Anglo-centric. Plenty of other kinds of history are interesting too, like for some people, Chinese and Japanese. I myself am fond of European history, but that doesn't mean I'm not open to other time periods and cultures. Who knows, maybe I'll become interested in other periods. I won't know until I try, however.

[Xerrop]

How terribly Euro and Anglo-centric.

Why Anglo-centric?
European History was for the most part French-German-Italian (and for ancient/medieval eras Greek-)"centric".

Fair call, except that Mesopotamian civilizations, Persian dynasties, The Islamic Caliphate and most of the Diadochi states weren't European, they were West Asian.

Except the Diadochi States I would say yes, but these cultures are strong linked to European History. And all of them controlled some parts of Europe. Both due to direct occupations/conquests or diplomacy.
Set any TW game in their eras and they will be featured as playable factions.