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Thread: Broken Crescent 3.0 Battle System for 2.02 - Tips, Tricks, and Reports

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    Icon5 Broken Crescent 3.0 Battle System for 2.02 - Tips, Tricks, and Reports

    UPDATE: THIS IS A MODIFIED VERSION OF AHIGA'S OLD STRATEGIES AND TIPS


    MUSLIM

    The Ayyubid Sultanate
    Summary: A newly formed dynasty in Egypt headed by Saladin, rising from the wake of the conquest of the Fatimids by Nur Al Din's lieutenants. With both Egypt and much of Syria under their control, the Ayyubids stand as the chief enemy of the Crusaders, and a major player in the Muslim world abroad.
    Tips:
    1) The Ayyubids lack in swordsmen, and have only one spear unit - they cannot rely on melee infantry as the bedrock of their armies.
    2) The Makurians pose little short-term threat, but don't let them advance too far up the Nile.
    3) Yemen and the Hijaz remain as valuable a territory as they were under the Fatimids, and it would be smart to send a strike force to quickly seize the whole of Western Arabia before the Crusaders or Omanis.
    4) The Ayyubids possess excellent Askari, Tawashi, and Mamluk troops; these fill a wide variety of roles in your armies, but are quite expensive. It would be best to use these forces conservatively and wisely until you have consolidated the wealth of the Levant and Hejaz.
    5) Confine the Crusaders to the land they already have; seize Hama and/or Baalbek quickly.


    The Abbasid Caliphate
    Difficulty: Medium
    Summary: If there was another power to seem Eternal in the Middle East besides the Romans, it surely would be the Caliphate. Since seizing it from the Umayyads in the 8th century the Abbasids have seen better days, yet managed to endure through the domination of foreign powers. Just as the Islamic world has grown beyond the Arabs to incorporate Persian, Turk, and other, so too does the Caliph's armies reflect beyond an Arabic heritage.
    Tips:
    1) The Abbasid armies are a mixture between the infantry-based armies of their Arab predecessors and Turkic slave forces. Yet the Caliphate has been in a state of decline for some time now, and its armies are not as polished nor prepared as those of its neighbors.
    2) The early armies of the Caliphate are largely limited to a collection of light tribesmen, nubians, and junior ghulams. If they can sustain themselves to the higher levels then they are in the clear.
    3) Baghdad's abundant pool of mercenaries should be well exploited to make up for any shortcomings in your early forces.
    4) Consolidate Iraq before moving elsewhere - this is the backbone of your wealth, and there's little competition for it.
    5) The Arabian desert serves as protection against the powers of the Levant, but you'll have to quickly move to take the whole of Mesopotamia before either of the Seljuk factions can get a foothold there.



    The Great Seljuks
    Difficulty: Very Hard
    Summary: Though nearly all of the Western Turks draw an origin from the Oghuz, perhaps above all are the Great Seljuks the true successor to those original Turks that forever changed the face of the Near east. Upon the efforts of Seljuk Beg in the early 11th century was the empire founded, uniting the fractured Eastern Islamic world and providing themselves as the key defenders of Islam in the first and second Crusade. Their rule was modeled after tribal organization, a sort of "family federation" that started off strong but grew fractured as time went on. Thus, a once Great Empire dwindled into divided Atabegs and Emirates. Broken Crescent has chosen to provide a somewhat ahistorical version of the Great Seljuks, representing them as a dwindled version of the United Seljuks of the past.
    Tips:
    1) With access to Turks skilled in close-range horse archery, and an abundance of cheap foot and horse archers, the Seljuks may be one of few factions able to completely win with archery alone.
    2) In addition to horse archers, the Seljuks possess powerful heavy Ghulams, best used as the instrument to deliver the final blow, if the enemy can sustain the barrage of arrows.
    3) The Seljuk infantry is very limited, but the powerful Azeri troops are equal, if not superior to, many of their rivals' best infantry.
    4) Like their nomad ancestors', the Seljuks' army is a combination of numerous light tribal troops and a small core of high-quality heavy troops. One must compensate for the limitations of the other.
    5) The Great Seljuks must deal with a wide range of fronts and enemies, but Azerbaijan is of utmost priority. Seize Tabriz, Ganja, and Shamakha to secure the region.
    6) Take initiative in Northeastern Iran, seizing Gorgan and the towns of lower Transoxiana.
    7) Above all, be prepared to fight Khwarezm, the Abbasids, and Georgia at once.


    The Turkish Sultanate
    Difficulty: Very Hard
    Summary: With the East Roman's defeat at Manzikert, the gateway to Anatolia was left wide open for Turkish dominion to be established. Though many Turkoman tribes migrated into the region, it would be the Seljuk Sultanate of Rum established by Suleyman I bin Kutalmis that would reign as the champion of the Turks in Anatolia. Having solidified their rule in Central Anatolia, the Turkish Sultanate of Rum may look to any horizon and see potential conquest - of Cilicia Armenia to the South-East, their old foe of Constantinople in the West, the newly freed from Seljuk dominion Georgians up North, or even East to the divided Turkish world.
    Tips:
    1) With no spears and a lack of armor, defensive tactics are ill-suited to the Turkish Sultanate. Their strength lies in speed and aggression.
    2) Like all Turkish Dynasties, the use of light horse archers is a staple of any strategy. The Anatolian Turks, however, do not have as great access to mounted archers as do their cousins in Iran, and must instead rely on a mix of horse archers with lancers and javelin cavalry.
    3) The Turks' infantry are well-suited to negating the heavy armor of their Christian opponents with axe, mace, and javelin. You'll have to get up close to make use of these.
    4) Though tempting, a direct confrontation with the ERE will be like water crashing upon the rocks. Instead, the Turks should concentrate on the East, in Cilicia, the Caucasus, and northern Mesopotamia.


    The Khwarezm Shah
    Difficulty: Medium Early / Very hard Late
    Summary: Situated at Transoxania, the crossroads of Asia and the very limits of the Islamic world, the Khwarezmian's arrival is linked with that of the Seljuks. Like many dynasties their patriarch, Anushtigin Garchai, was a Ghulam. He served the Seljuks as a general entrusted to retake Northern Greater Khorasan from the Ghaznavids, and upon his success was entrusted to the role of Governor to the region, beginning his dynasty's rule of Khwarezm. Though Persian culture embedded itself in every facet of Khwarezm's society, there was ever a strong presence of Pagan Cumans in their military and even the royal blood.
    Tips:
    1) Analogies to the Sassanids of old can be made with the Khwarezm Shah, of whom sought to emulate the ancient Persian dynasty. Much like the Sassanids the Khwarezm Shah rely upon their heavy cavalry and cataphracts to succeed, the metalworking of Transoxania affording them the ability to field such horsemen in larger numbers than their neighbors. They further have easy access to a mix of Turkic tribesmen to serve as light horse archers.
    2) In addition to light horse archers, Khwarezm builds upon the Iranian tradition of massed archery, with numerous levy and quality foot archers. These can easily overwhelm light opponents with a swarm of arrows.
    3) In Transoxania itself Khwarezm's infantry are unremarkable, but upon gaining access to Northern Iran they can produce excellent Daylami troops, very suitable for siegework and (when you can field enough of them) field battles.
    4) The early game challenge for Khwarezm is to seize the Transoxianian towns and cities before the Ghaznavids and Seljuks. Merv, Mashad, Nishapur, Balkh, and Tus must be brought under quick control as a base for wealth and further expansion.
    6) Jelaluddin's starting stack is suitable as a base for a large, steppe-style horse archer army. Be sure to add a few lancers to it, to finish off the remnants of the enemy and wipe out enemy missile infantry.
    7) Muhammad's army should be designated for siege-work, with plenty of infantry.
    8) The Mongol's arrival into Transoxania is the greatest threat Khwarezm is to face. Though your holdings in Khwarezm may be lost, they are crucial towards the goal of securing Afghanistan and Persia. These will be the base by which you work your counter-offensive


    The Sultanate of Ghazni
    Difficulty: Medium
    Summary: Like many Empires of the Islamic world, the Ghaznavids have their origin in the esteemed ranks of Slave-Warriors, their fore-bearers being Mamluks to the Persian Samanids. Though holding to a Turkic origin, the Ghaznavids would become thoroughly Persianized, starting the practice of Turkish rulers encouraging a flowering of Persian culture and arts. Unlike the later Seljuks however, the Ghaznavids would draw such influence from their Iranian subjects that their armies far more resembled the Samanids than their Turkish ancestry. Broken Crescent has chosen to reflect a slightly ahistorical Ghaznavids, still located in their ancestral capital of Ghazni instead of at Lahore as refugees of Ghorid Conquest.
    Tips:
    1) The Ghaznavid army is heavily armored, but lacking in shock troops, making it suited to wearing out the enemy in a drawn out fight.
    2) Like any good Persian army, the Ghaznavid one features large numbers of foot archers. These can sit relatively safely behind Ghazni's excellent spearmen and rain fire on their opponent.
    3) Rather than lancers and light horse archers, Ghazni's cavalry are mainly armored horse archers and medium cavalry best suited to melee. Generally, it will not be the battle-winning piece of the plan, but rather dealing with key enemies and weakening the opponent, so that the infantry can triumph in the long run.
    4) It's best to let the Ghorids expel their strength on the conquest of Northern India as you secure Afghanistan. Then, you can turn on the Ghorids in the Khyber pass, or invade Sindh in the south.


    The Ghorid Emirate
    Difficulty: Hard
    Summary: An East-Iranian Tajik Dynasty of the Khorasan region, if the Ghaznavids put the foot of Islam in the door of India, the Ghorids stepped through it in full. After swallowing up the Ghaznavid's domains of Khorasan and the Punjab they swept across Northern India, conquering Delhi and giving rise to the Sultanate of Delhi. With their conquests would Northern India permanently fall under the sway of Islam. Broken Crescent has chosen to reflect the Ghorids as a Jihad State, which while factoring into their conquests was not the absolute historical nature of the Ghorids.
    Tips:
    1) Though infantry is the strength of the Ghorids, spearmen are not. The Ghorid's strategy is therefore in stark contrast to their Ghaznavid neighbors; one of shock and awe, making full use of the power of Ghazis and Jihad Ghulams.
    2) With javelins, axes, and swords being the basis of the infantry, along with a general lightness of armor, the Ghorids will look to get up close and personal in their battles.
    3) Sitting upon the cusp of the Islamic world has afforded the Ghorids a wide pool of fanatical Ghazi to call upon for holy war. It will be these unbreakable warriors that form much of your army.
    4) The Ghorid cavalry is relatively light compared with other Muslim states, but effective nonetheless. Horse archers and javelin cavalry are excellent for harassing the light troops of Sindh and the Rajputs, while Muslim and North Indian noble cavalry can deliver a well-timed melee blow.
    5) India, India, India. Conquering Afghanistan and fighting the Ghaznavids is pointless and dangerous when the wealth of Northern India is ripe for the picking, and it is crucial for the Ghorids to sweep across to Delhi before Sindh or the Rajputs can manage to.


    The Imamate of Oman
    Difficulty: Medium
    Summary: A land divided, Oman like much of Arabia was fragmented into various tribes and city-states. Often has the region fallen under the sway of foreign powers, the last of which was the Great Seljuks. Yet it would be a union of Nabhanid Emirs and Ibadhi Imams which would manage to oust the invaders and begin to unite fractured Oman into a power to be respected.
    Tips:
    1) Oman's military is one entirely untouched by the changes brought on by the Turk's arrival. Rooted in the earlier Arabian martial practices, importance is placed upon light lancers and swordsmen who form the mainstay of their forces.
    2) A general lightness of armour, abundant swordsmen and javelin-carrying nobles make the Omani best suited to an offensive strategy. Yet, strong foot archers and limited, but decent spearmen make Oman capable of playing defense as well, if the circumstances are right.
    3) Omani horsemen are light and fast - they hit fast, and pull out to strike another well timed blow. One must be careful not to get them mired in a melee.
    4) With the security of the ocean and Arabian desert putting much space between Oman and the greater powers around them, Oman can advance nearly anywhere it desires. Rather than charging into Eastern Iran or India one would be wiser to seize the whole of the North and South Eastern Arabian coast, which not only grants a solid base from which to operate from, but opens up the Hijaz and Africa to future conquests...


    The Malikate of Sindh

    Difficulty: Very Hard
    Summary: Northern India has always been the proving grounds of powers invading the subcontinent, and the spilling and settling of such diverse bloodlines has given rise to a rich and vivid culture and people. The ruling dynasty of Sindh, the Soomro, are a result of synergy between the Islamic Arab Invaders and slowly converting Hindu Rajput subjects. As always, they are straddled beside rising Empires, yet with the wealth of Sindh below their feet there is a chance they might well be a rising empire.
    Tips:
    1) While inheriting from Arab, Turkic, Persian, and Hindu traditions, the Sindhi armies don't represent the strengths of any of these. One must draw together these disparate components to create a unified, effective fighting force.
    2) Being an Indian faction, Sindh has a large population to draw on, and is able to field large numbers of light troops to overwhelm its opponents.
    3) Apart from the heavy Soomro and Jagir troops, Sindhi infantry are light ill-suited to drawn-out melee. They must overwhelm the opponent quickly.
    3) Sindh's light cavalry is valuable for defeating its Ghorid counterparts, or harassing the Rajputs, who are generally lacking in horsemen.
    4) With the expansion of the Rajputs and the Ghorids, Sindh runs the risk of being wedged between two superpowers. Whether they advance north to face the Ghorids in the Punjab, or cross the Rajasthani desert to raid into the Rajput States, or simply wait in Sindh until the right moment, depends on what the circumstances are.

    CHRISTIAN

    The Eastern Roman Empire
    Difficulty: Medium
    Summary: Of the Middle East, there is no power that has stood the test of time longer than that of the Eastern Roman Empire, a continuation of the mighty Romans, though such mightiness has truly seen better days. The heartlands and great source of its power, Eastern Anatolia, has fallen to the Turkish invaders and after disaster and despair at last a capable dynasty has risen. Theirs is a legacy inherited long ago, and built upon by countless peoples of the ages, a people deeply conservative yet a military ever willing to adopt new ways. Broken Crescent has chosen to depict the Eastern Roman Empire's military with an earlier bend, reflective of their Pre-1204 AD armies particularly of the 1000-1190 AD Era.
    Tips:
    1) The Eastern Roman empire's military is depicted as similar to that of their ancient predecessors, based on heavy infantry and relying on mercenaries and auxiliaries for light infantry and cavalry.
    2) Though mounted archery is lacking in the Roman cavalry, shock is there and in force, well able to break an enemy from the sides or rear and crush some weaker troops from the front. However, like their infantry, their early cavalry is light and should be used as support troops, rather than as the battle-winning force of the army.
    3) The Eastern Roman Empire's military is highly polarized, with elite upper class soldiers, inexperienced lower class levies and militia, and a limited semi-professional class. In this way they are more like the Muslim Factions than Armenia, Georgia, or Jerusalem, which receive their "General Issue" soldiers very early. Their early troops must work together, because individually they aren't that strong.
    4) Early ERE infantry are best suited to a defensive role; late shock infantry and swordsmen turn the ERE's army into one well suited on the offense, but strong on the defense as well.
    5) Foot archery is a marked weakness of the Romans, whose only virtue is that their levied archers are of massed numbers. Even so, foreign troops best serve the role, and the ranged strength of the ERE is in their javelins.
    6) The direction the Eastern Romans are to go in is quite simple: East. East to reclaim once lost Eastern Anatolia, east to defeat the Turks once and for all. It is how they do so that is less simple. One thing you should do is to quickly seize the whole of Cyprus, Crete, and Rhodes - these lands are uncontested except by the rebels that defend them.
    7) Trebizond is an important asset, enabling you to attack the Turks from multiple directions. Don't lose it!


    The Kingdom of Jerusalem
    Difficulty: Very Hard
    Summary: As though a migration of the Germanic tribes of old, invading Europeans from afar had come to settle in a foreign land. Yet this was not a migration of old but an invasion of new, the conquests of the holy lands from Muslim hands by Latin Christendom. The remarkable success of the 1st Crusade has been unchallenged by the subsequent attempts, and the Kingdom of Jerusalem has come to be forced into the defensive against the rising tide of the Ayyubids.
    Tips:
    1) The Kingdom of Jerusalem remains largely untouched by foreign influence, save for its Turkopoles of an East Roman origin. Yet, it isn't like the Europeans back home either, as Knights do not, and cannot, rule the battlefield alone in the Middle East.
    2) The KoJ possesses a strong bedrock of sergeants, serving as crossbowmen and capable medium infantry. These, however, aren't well suited to the offense.
    3) Poulains, Knights, and their infantry counterparts are the offensive lynchpins of your army. Being small in numbers and expensive, however, they must be used wisely.
    4) Jerusalem's early campaign is a defensive one, and has been ever since the First Crusade. The following Crusades sought to emulate its success yet failed, and any quick rush towards the offense will likely result in the same. Expand wisely, and don't get yourself into trouble with more factions than you can handle.
    5) That doesn't mean you can recklessly expand, though. Baalbek and Homs are important towns to seize; while they may be small, they're resources that you simply can't let afford to fall into Ayyubid hands. Antioch is a prime target, but a difficult one, and it could be risky to send your entire army after it, especially as the Romans have their eyes on it as well.
    6) Once you've withstood the initial Ayyubid assault, take Damascus quickly. It's a windfall for whoever holds it, much like Antioch, and taking it is a significant blow to your Egyptian foes.

    The Kingdom of Armenia
    Difficulty: Very Hard
    Summary: It would not be with a bang that the Kingdom of Cilicia Armenia would be established, a sudden and violent invasion like that of Jerusalem's or the Sultanate of Rum, but with a steady migration having started around 965 AD as the Romans expelled the Muslims of Cilicia and encouraged Armenians and Syrians to settle there. With the fall of Greater Armenia to first the Romans and then the Seljuks many Armenians would migrate south, and soon would Cilicia be thrown from the yoke of the Romans to be ruled independently by Armenians. They are a small kingdom wedged between larger and ambitious ones, just as their ancestors were ages ago.
    Tips:
    1) The armies of Armenia are now more an example of Roman and Greek influence than anything else. They're abundant in strong offensive infantry as well as quality spearmen, and will be the main battle-winning force throughout your campaign.
    2) The javelin is almost as important as the bow to your army, which makes it further suited for the offense.
    3) Armenia is lacking in early shock cavalry, instead possessing a wide range of medium missile cavalry well able to weaken the opponent. These are also capable in melee, but mainly for taking out enemy troops, be they mounted or on foot.
    4) After securing Vahka, be quick to take Antioch and move on to northern Mesopotamia before the Turks or Georgians can.
    5) Above all, take a sophisticated approach to diplomacy and do not make too many enemies.


    The Kingdom of Georgia
    Difficulty: Hard
    Summary: Despite the Transcaucasus often being the proving grounds of Great Empires, the Georgian Kingdom has largely managed to retain its autonomy until the arrival of the turkomans. Theirs was not a conquest but a colonization of the region, wreaking havoc upon the settled populations of Greater Armenia and Georgia. Only a few mountainous areas remained out of Seljuk control or turkoman havoc, and it would be from here that King David the Builder would mobilize his country into a great power of the Caucasus. Since ancient clash of Sassanian and Roman, if not before, has the Caucasus been a meeting point of cultures, and Georgia though fervently Orthodox Christian has adopted much of the warring ways of their Turkic and Persian Neighbors.
    Tips:
    1) Georgia draws on a long tradition of quality heavy infantry, and has early access to high-quality swordsmen. This should be readily exploited in the siege warfare of the caucasus.
    2) In addition to swordsmen, Georgia has strong spearmen and mounted archers, which are crucial in the battle against the Seljuks.
    3) Like Armenia, early Georgian cavalry (even their bodyguards!) isn't suited to shock warfare, but to whittle down the enemy. Later on, however, Georgia has access to high-quality lancers.
    4) Georgia's is a Transcaucasus campaign, with securing control of the region of utmost priority to the budding Kingdom. First, go straight for Yerevan and secure Armenia and then Azeribaijan to the east.
    5) Once establishing itself as a transcaucasus power, Georgia faces a choice - whether to move into Persia or Anatolia. Both options are tempting, but don't stretch yourself, as on either side await great powers, and you can't take on both at the same time.

    The Kingdom of Makuria
    Difficulty: Hard
    Summary: The Kingdom of Makuria is the result of two centuries old Nubian Kingdoms uniting some time ago. It was they who were one of the first to stand successfully against the armies of the Caliphate, and it would be there that like Tours and Constantinople the armies of Islam were stopped time and time again. Yet Makuria now faces an Egypt with all the vitality of the Fatimids in their youth, yet unlike the fatimids, this is no dynasty with a kind eye to Christians in their south when there are Christians to their north.
    Tips:
    1) The Makurians have a military history developed from Nubia, Abyssinia, the Beja Nomads, and the migrating Bedouin. While technologically inferior to the Muslims of the north it had stood time and time again in the past to success. Amongst its most prized tools is the longbow, though sword and javelin play a major part as well. All but the most elite troops are lightly armored, with any and all tactics requiring to compensate for such a disadvantage.
    2) With the javelin being the mainstay of their early missiles, and an abundance of light tribal infantry, the Makurians are ill-suited to the defense. Their strategy isn't subtle - it's an attack, and it comes fast and hard.
    3) In addition to javelins, the Makurians have access to massed longbowmen at the low and professional tiers. This can counteract Ayyubid advantage in horse archery to an extent, but won't outdo heavy Mamluks or Tawashin in a shooting contest. Rather, go after the enemies' light troops, and use your javelins and massed infantry to deal with heavy troops.
    4) Camels are the ace up the sleeve of Makuria, and using them in conjunction with javelin cavalry is critical to your success against the cavalry of the north.
    5) Although the Ayyubids present themselves as the chief enemy of Makuria, it would be foolish to try and simply defeat them early on. They have the Crusaders to worry about, and so long as you seize Aswan to form a bulwark on any Ayyubid expansion south, the distance from their military production to your lands will protect Makuria. Secure Ethiopia, and later Yemen, to serve as an economic base allowing you to produce enough troops to overwhelm the Ayyubids.

    HINDU

    The Solanki Rajputs
    Difficulty: Easy-Medium
    Summary: There is a rich irony in that the stalwart defenders of India against the latest invaders were once like the very invaders they do battle with. The Rajput Clans originate with the mixing of Iranian Nomads like the Kushans and Saka with the Hepthalite Huns, and have become the strongest of all the Indian Kingdoms. Yet in their martial pride lies a feudalism which has dotted the landscape of Northern India in divided Kingdoms and Clans. Broken Crescent has chosen to depict not a specific Rajput Kingdom but rather the Rajput States, starting off as an individual one but coming to unite these divided warrior clans into a Rajput Confederacy. Tips:
    1) The Rajputs are still of a deeply conservative tradition of Indian Warfare at this time, only recently having adopted the use of heavy cavalry from their conflicts with Mahmud. As a result, cavalry is largely non-existent, and armies are primarily of infantry, archers, and elephants.
    2) The Paramaras have little in the way of heavy troops or offensive infantry. Massed longbowmen are well able to deal with the light horse archers and infantry of the enemy, leaving elephants and massed infantry to deal with their heavy forces.
    4) Field your elephants wisely. Be sure to use your longbowmen limited horsemen to deal with enemy javelins; if you can do this, the elephants will be a devastating force, able to weaken the enemy with plenty of missiles and stomp over helpless sword troops.
    5) India remains a land divided, and the rival rebel kingdoms are very large. Be swift but stable in consolidating power, securing the regions around you and making the seizure of Ajmer a priority. It will serve as the foundation for any wars against the Ghorids or Sindhis, whether you choose to strike it out across the Rajasthani Desert or surge north.




    PAGAN

    The Kypchaks

    Difficulty: Medium
    Summary: Before the dawn of the Mongolian's domination of Asia, it would be the Turks which struck fear in settled people's hearts. While the Seljuk's momentum had come to slow, the vitality of the Kypchaks remained strong. The Khans of the Kypchak Confederacy must make themselves a Khagan, an emperor of the steppe, if they wish to be able to resist the Mongol's arrival and to cause as much fear in their sedentary neighbors as the Huns of old did. Though they had come to inherit the age-old traditions of the steppe, influence from neighboring Russ has been felt with the use of javelins by some low level tribesmen and a willingness for the Russian-influenced nobles to dismount. Tips:
    1) The Kypchaks have inherited the age-old traditions of the steppe, relying on swift horse archers to carry the fight and adding onto that the presence of light javelineers, and lancers of various quality. Though possessing some decent infantry, these are best employed as siege troops and not the mainstay of your army.
    2) The Kypchaks differ from the Seljuks and Rum Turks in that lancers are a much more embedded part of their armies, though not available early.
    3) Take advantage of cheap local mercenary Horse archers and javelins.
    4) On the steppe you should force your enemy's garrison to sally forth; assaulting will cost you too many men. But once you've seized the entire steppe then you can begin to produce Slavs and Dismounted Nobles for siegework.
    5) When you inevitable invade Georgia, make it a storm. Seize Kutaisi, Ani, Tblisi, and Telavi quickly, as these are the backbone of their economy, and where they get many of their best core troops.
    Last edited by gamegeek2; January 02, 2011 at 01:51 PM.

  2. #2
    karaislam's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Broken Crescent 3.0 Battle System for 2.02 - Tips, Tricks, and Reports

    i dont know its much about battle system but i see a problem on bc war system.soldiers are too far from each other.and even fatalities doesnt work normaly as in tatw,ss63,dlv etc.i think u need to adjust a skeleton system for units firstly.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Broken Crescent 3.0 Battle System for 2.02 - Tips, Tricks, and Reports

    Agreed, troops stand too far away from each other even in a close formation, it makes them look unprofessional and fragile in a cavalry charge.

  4. #4
    Decanus
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    Default Re: Broken Crescent 3.0 Battle System for 2.02 - Tips, Tricks, and Reports

    agreed

  5. #5
    gamegeek2's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Broken Crescent 3.0 Battle System for 2.02 - Tips, Tricks, and Reports

    Which soldiers, specifically?

  6. #6
    karaislam's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Broken Crescent 3.0 Battle System for 2.02 - Tips, Tricks, and Reports

    spearmen and pikemen normal.

    other all of the foot soldiers.i mean swordsmen,macemen,axemen etc.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Broken Crescent 3.0 Battle System for 2.02 - Tips, Tricks, and Reports

    Spear, pike, basically defensive troops are ok, but some assault troops, most archers, some cavalry, most missle cavalry and most swordmen are loose, even if they are of elite level.

    For example elite and normal varangian axemen and ere swordmen.
    Last edited by Babygod22; September 12, 2010 at 04:23 PM.

  8. #8
    gamegeek2's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Broken Crescent 3.0 Battle System for 2.02 - Tips, Tricks, and Reports

    It was to balance archers in melee, for one - for two, archers need space.

    A two handed axe needs space to operate, as does a long sword - much more than a spear. This is realistic. It also buffs spearmen on the defense; cracking a spear formation, or getting it in a protracted melee will cause it to break up; assuming they're not super high quality.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Broken Crescent 3.0 Battle System for 2.02 - Tips, Tricks, and Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by gamegeek2 View Post
    It was to balance archers in melee, for one - for two, archers need space.

    A two handed axe needs space to operate, as does a long sword - much more than a spear. This is realistic. It also buffs spearmen on the defense; cracking a spear formation, or getting it in a protracted melee will cause it to break up; assuming they're not super high quality.
    Isn't that what the loose formation button is for? what if I decided to use my varangian as defensive troops?

  10. #10
    gamegeek2's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Broken Crescent 3.0 Battle System for 2.02 - Tips, Tricks, and Reports

    It's irrelevant - you still need lots of room to use a two handed axe effectively - one must keep the axe in constant motion (unlike what the M2TW animations suggest), since it takes a bunch of effort to get it going.

    Also, it helps with balancing 2-handers.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Broken Crescent 3.0 Battle System for 2.02 - Tips, Tricks, and Reports

    Not to mention Total War formations are too much like drill-square parades in general.

  12. #12
    karaislam's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Broken Crescent 3.0 Battle System for 2.02 - Tips, Tricks, and Reports

    dear gamegeek2.look at the makurian campion 2handed swordsman.and u ll realise that when he makes throat cutting animation its far from the victim.plus other swordsman fatalities are not correct too.always they are far from enemy.plus spearmen fatalities too wrong.i advice u try stainless steel 6.3 and see the difference of fatalities.

  13. #13
    gamegeek2's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Broken Crescent 3.0 Battle System for 2.02 - Tips, Tricks, and Reports

    I can't do anything about anims.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Broken Crescent 3.0 Battle System for 2.02 - Tips, Tricks, and Reports

    I'm guessing devs already know this, but the upkeep changes that occur with the 3.0 system are too high for the 2.02 campaign map. As the Ayyubids your standing forces with 2.02 upkeep only drains your starting 10000 bucks to about 8200, whereas with 3.0 installed it drains you down to about 2400. So, either the campaign map in 3.0 needs to have a much higher overall income to sustain high upkeep or upkeep needs to be reduced in general so each starting nation can actually afford a decent-sized starter army.
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Broken Crescent 3.0 Battle System for 2.02 - Tips, Tricks, and Reports

    Tight formations are not unrealistic, remind the Romans. And the soldiers get enough space as soon as they start fighting.

  16. #16
    gamegeek2's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Broken Crescent 3.0 Battle System for 2.02 - Tips, Tricks, and Reports

    The Romans actually needed a good amount of space to fight, considering the size of their shields. They actually got crushed when they were packed in too tight (see Cannae)

  17. #17
    RollingWave's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Broken Crescent 3.0 Battle System for 2.02 - Tips, Tricks, and Reports

    spears were not neccesarily short, and this is one aspect I have most grudge with the M2TW system.

    Ther reality was that people did not go from one handed short stabbing spears to two handed super long pikes in an instant, this is a completely historic and logic no brainer, but it was a gradual process.

    Even the reknown Swiss pikemens, in the records of the 15th century historian Jovius, when he saw them personally fighting in Italy in the 1490s, they were armed with "pikes" of 10 feet (in comparason, the greek hoplite's one handed dory was often up to 8-9 feet), which is no where near the "pike" commonly described in the game (which generally describe the late evolution of pike and shot pikes... i.e 15 feet + monsters)

    In my reading of basically the entire Chinese history for example. neither one handed spear nor super two handed pikes were common at all, but the in between long (2.5-3.5M or so, 8-12 feet ish) spear was the most common, and generally almost always used two handed, they would form up in a phalanx like formation but generally did not exercise the slow push type of greek / macedonian phalanx , instead typically rush in a wall of blade and then fighting in cordinated melee where the spears can both keep enemies at a distances and or / block other enemies from attacking your comrads. shield wall exist but typically only at the front. so the very front line might fight with shield and sword or shorter spears , but the lines behind them generally use two handers.

    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that you don't actually need super long spears to perform something like a spearwall formation, just anything that can reach further than what a one handed weapon typically would be would do. since in reality only a small perfecentage of men would actually be armoured to the point where dozens of pointy blades poking all around him wouldn't be a serious hazard, (and those men were usually on horses, which aside from a few extreme example can't possibly be protected to the point where they are completely impervious to jabbing spears flying everywhere)

    It is a complete no brainer that there were almost surely transitional long spearmens all over Europe for much of the medieval era before true pikemens emerged, and I would hazard a guess that a lot of the islamic world fought this way as well, probably even more so than the Europeans. although the rise of Turkish lead nomadic warfare undoubtablly cut into this significantly, from what I seem to read the original Rashidun armies were almost surely fighting in long spear formations quiet often for example.

    Also, it's not hard game wise to make long spearmen type units, I'm a novice modder and I already figured out how, just make a pikemen unit (probably use a shorter spear module for the mesh, I usually use the Sipahi lancer's lance) and don't put in the pike formation thing in the EDU. and it'll basically fucntion as a pikemen without pike formation. seen here...

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    heres my edit, basically giving the vanilla's dismounted arab cavalry a two handed spear, and fighting against vanilla's berber spearmen (i intentionally set their stats to completely the same in this fight, and the two handers won in a lopsided battle)

    In my playing around with these type of long spearmen , i notice that they're quiet good and fun , basically they'll REALLY hold anything at bay for awhile, even against superior heavy infantry they will hold out for a lot longer than normal m2tw spearmen would, the effect of the pikemen module is quiet obviously as more spearmen would be hitting than the other infantries, and they would often be able to "push back" the enemies a bit to make this advantage even more pronounced.

    they can basically massacer any lighter infantries without problem, but will lose to heavy onces after extended battles (the heavy infantry won't take much casaulty, but it'll take them a long time to win). a really fun unit to play with, I generally set their attack value REALLY low, otherwise I notice they'll simply massacer everything, as their superior hittnig (they'll hit a lot more often than other infantries in close combat) can be devastating. weakness in comparason is obviously that they'll lose most of the shield , i have at most given them only a small shield, as it is unrealistic to carry anymore (much like the Macedonian phalanx).

    In reality it is probably common from more well organized infantry of this sort to carry shields... and in battle simply use the shield when neccasry ( when getting hit by archer fire, when in the very first line etc..) and then simply put them on the back and fight two handed in other times, but that is not possible with the m2TW engine.
    Last edited by RollingWave; October 11, 2010 at 09:25 AM.
    1180, an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity in East Asia, it's technology and wealth is the envy of the world. But soon conflict will engulf the entire region with great consequences and lasting effects for centuries to come, not just for this region, but the entire known world, when one man, one people, unites.....

  18. #18
    RollingWave's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Broken Crescent 3.0 Battle System for 2.02 - Tips, Tricks, and Reports

    tight formation aren't unrealistic, but the depiction of spearmens only fighting in one handed mode shield wall mode OR two handed super pike is.
    1180, an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity in East Asia, it's technology and wealth is the envy of the world. But soon conflict will engulf the entire region with great consequences and lasting effects for centuries to come, not just for this region, but the entire known world, when one man, one people, unites.....

  19. #19

    Default Re: Broken Crescent 3.0 Battle System for 2.02 - Tips, Tricks, and Reports

    Just had some problems with the new EDU.
    Two sword units engaged each other on a fortress wall and fought for 45 minutes minutes only suffering a couple of casualties each.
    At one point I put the speed at fastest setting for 5 realtime minutes without any of them suffering any casualties.

    Looks like there's a problem.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Broken Crescent 3.0 Battle System for 2.02 - Tips, Tricks, and Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by briny_norman View Post
    Just had some problems with the new EDU.
    Two sword units engaged each other on a fortress wall and fought for 45 minutes minutes only suffering a couple of casualties each.
    At one point I put the speed at fastest setting for 5 realtime minutes without any of them suffering any casualties.

    Looks like there's a problem.
    This is beacuse of a scaling effect in the numbers used to generate casualties. The same two units you quoted would create a more dramatic effect on the field, but because they are on a wall fewer of them will be in a position to fight each other.

    To counter this do one of the following.

    • Run one unit through the other until you have numbers in the double figures able to get to grips with each other
    • Get off the wall and fight someone else or get off the wall to see if they follow you.
    • Aim directly for the wall with seige equipment (ladders and towers) so that when they unload a bigger fight ensues.
    • Invest in artillery or spies to bypass the walls altogether.

    As for the effect you describe it seems to me to be realistic, frustrating, and for that rather more fun than before.
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