Saba & Nomad Battle Examples

[Team Sleep]

Okay, so I had a Saba campaign way back when & I never got to finish it. I attacked by Ptolemy & suffered a knife in the back thanks to AS. I feel that I was doing an okay job at building up my empire (although I considered my economy to be puny) & I did what any Saba player would do early on and trained whatever units I could afford. My campaign didn't get too far from an early start before I started having major problems.

Despite all the problems I had and starting up...there was one crucial battle that I had to win so that I would be able to maintain the Arabian Peninsula and be able to maintain a well planted foothold outside of the peninsula. I had to fight an AS army There were a small number of medium phalanx units that I had to combat with the infamous archer spearmen, a FM and maybe a skirmisher cav? I don't recall as it was a long time ago. However I always read about when browsing info on Saba about how some players tear to shreds other armies sent against them using primarily archer spearmen. I play on M/M and have not been able put up a W against either a Ptolemy or AS army using these units. BUT I KNOW IT CAN BE DONE!...or so I've read. The bottom line is...I must be using my army in the wrong fashion not to their fullest potential. Now as I've said...I've read just about all I can on how to use a Saba army effectively in battle, but I must still be missing some important elements. So I was wondering if anyone would be willing to post up a video.

Now I don't want a video of a pitched custom battle. I want a video of a campaign battle...preferably one of M/M difficulty or greater outlining and showing how to win a given battle using this faction...ESPECIALLY against an opponent that is fielding "superior" units to Saba's own. Now I know this seems very picky. But I just can't get the hang of it and just need a visual example. This would help me greatly and tempt me to play the faction again.

Also, although I haven't played a nomad faction yet and I am the least familiar with them, I wouldn't mind learning through visual example of how to best employ Horse Archer armies as well. I love reading about these epic battles and have yet had the chance to undertake one myself. I figure if I'm going to do something...I might as well do it right...otherwise I would hate to be turned off the these factions in the game as I was with Saba. I'd prefer this video to be during a campaign as well.

Is anybody willing to help me out & post such videos? I hope so. Or perhaps these great victories are only written about...which makes me doubt if they are ever truly achieved .

P.S. : If one is so kind and brave enough to make any of these videos I think it would be better to record a battle in progress, so that I am able to see and get an understanding of the micro-management involved.

Thank You, Friends

[Knonfoda]

I think if you dropped the 'it has to be a campaign battle video' requirement you would get a lot more help I reckon, it isn't everybody who is playing a Saba campaign or a campaign that is far enough to be fighting AS.

Its quite easy to simulate a campaign battle through a custom battle, and it would be 100% realistic. All you need to do is make a note of the units you want to use, how big the armies need to be, etc. I wouldn't mind giving it a try later (much much later) and helping you out, but only if its on a custom battle.

[athanaric]

Is anybody willing to help me out & post such videos? I hope so. Or perhaps these great victories are only written about...which makes me doubt if they are ever truly achieved .

Your request is understandable but you'd get more help if you could refrain from insulting other players. Some, like me, are just unskilled at recording or uploading videos, so they rarely do it.

As to battle tactics, you need Red Sea Axemen to crack armoured phalanxes from behind. Also, Bedouin skirmishers. Whatever some people say, Archer-Spearmen alone won't cut it against a balanced infantry army, and they downright suck against heavy infantry. They're mainly for eliminating mounted skirmishers and light infantry.

[Team Sleep]

@ Knonfoda: Alright let's drop the campaign battle requirement for now. I just threw it in there because I thought it would be the best example vs a pitched battle. I'll accept your help and I'll update this post later with a unit list, terrain, size etc. I'll repost when I have something solid to simulate.

@ Athanaric: I didn't mean to insult players. I'm sure there are many great players out there who don't record their battles & that's fine. I was just hinting at the observation of a lot of players being good writers. But I want to see something to back it up other than their own words. Just want to deal with the tangible if you get my meaning. It was by no means me attempting to take a shot at players or an attempt to call them out. It's strictly for my educational purposes. And I'm not making fun of those who can't make videos or aren't good at making videos as I've never even done one myself.

As far as the tactics you provide they make sense and I feel you on the archer-spearmen. I just wanna see these tactics and units employed in the field. At least that will hopefully take care of half of a Saba victory. Then perhaps I should have a more detailed thread opened up about Saba empire building later on.

Thanks again friends. I will later update the post with something more concrete.

[Knonfoda]

OK, I did two battles, with random Saba units, the first one with some cavalry, the second one with no cavalry and with enemy infantry superiority (quality and quantity).

http://rapidshare.com/files/417089186/Saba1.rpy

Battle one, I split my forces into 3, attacked their skirmishers and general with cav + infantry, and did NOT let their elite phalanxes engage my 'line', whenever they came close, I moved them back. After 2/3 of their army had been routed, and general killed, it was time to position my armies around their 3 phalanxes, and destroy them, the point where I lost the most infantry.

http://rapidshare.com/files/41708941...verageDefe.rpy

Battle two, however, I tried using the ground to my advantage, splitting my force into two and placing them on high hills hoping their army would move into the middle. I managed to destroy half their cavalry and kill their general, and ALMOST surround them, the battle was on a swords edge, but my force was unable to break their Galatian Tindanotae (the 2 hit point naked infantry) and from then on the battle was lost. Close though.

My advice would be to train lots of dirt cheap infantry, always try to fight the enemy at a numerical superiority, break your armies into 2-3-4, and lure them out, surround them and destroy them. Leave the best units till last, always try to go for a decapitation strike against their general/captain first, then use slingers, archers and missile cav against their toughest enemies. But DON'T offer them a line of battle to fight in or they WILL destroy you.

[Team Sleep]

Thanks Knonfoda...I just never used rapid share and have dled the flie...just not sure what program is used to open this file.

[Moros]

it's an rtw battle replay file! Just copy it to your replay folder. Where your saved battles are stored as well. You can then load it in the game like normal.

Edit: knof was ahead of me. and more detailed.

[Knonfoda]

Put them in your RTW/Rome-Total-War/EB/replays folder.

Play EB - Single player, load game, load battle replay, select which replay you want.

Note that in mine it told me that the game date was a different version and thus the battle would play differently, but having played it it was the same battle. (you must be using EB 1.2)

[Turtle Hammer]

I can't really add to what others have said regarding military tactics for Saba, but you say your economy was puny? One of the strongest economies I ever had was as Saba, I raised just enough of an army to take the Southern Arabian teritories, and as far up to the "horn" of Arabia, then I disbanded most of my armies so I could afford mines, roads, markets, ports etc, and after a while I was making more than enough to bring an army back. I'd have to go back to that campaign to see precisely what you can build, but generally, you should be loaded as Saba.

One way I found of doing it safely was after a phhyric victory, I didn't retrain the army, I kept all the 3 and 4 man units, and as soon as a Ptolemic stack showed up, I was able to retrain my stack in one turn. If I hadn't had that sort of stand by, I may've thought twice about disbanding as much of my military as I did.

[Team Sleep]

I find that interesting. I was building much of the same as you...conquered the same lands as you as quickly as possible. I never really disbanded my military though. But I remember quite well investing quite a large chunk of my economy into caravan and trade routes.

Just never found the loads of money that other Saba players have. I will play them again...after I'm finished now w/ my KH campaign...and then possibly a Casse campaign.

[Megas Methuselah]

So you forced some dude who took pity on you to take the time to fight a battle and upload a replay, and now you're not even playing as the Saba anymore?

Dude...

[Team Sleep]

Megas...Nice...I didn't force anybody to do anything.
I asked for a battle replay giving an example of what is much written about and not recorded.
And I do have a Saba Campaign saved that's in dire straights so until I get some decent help...I put it on hold.

[Knonfoda]

I think Saba (along with the Saka) are one of the most challenging factions to play with, and definitely the most rewarding too (its been AGES since I had a decent challenge on my Romani campaign).

Having said that, I don't mind you changing campaigns and leaving it for later, but did you even bother to look at the videos I made?

[Team Sleep]

I did. Of course. I wouldn't ask for something and then blow it off. I appreciate it and thanks. It was very insightful. I thought the first battle was very cleverly done. And I think in the 2nd one you may have just been outclassed as far as unit strength. What battle maps were they played on & what was the unit size you were using?

[Knonfoda]

I'll have to get back to you on those battle maps as im not near home right now.

I reckon on the 2nd battle if those galatians had broke (despite being surrounded on 3 sides I would have won. My lack of cavalry also meant I had to detach full units from my army to pursue them off the map when they could have been fighting.

My main advice to you to tackle large enemy stacks is:

1 - Have lots of dirt cheap infantry (archer spearmen are good) to have a superiority in numbers. In a pitched battle, just send them all over the map, form small armies, and deny the enemy a main line of battle. Destroy stragglers and isolated enemy units.

2 - ALWAYS try to lure the enemy general out and destroy him/make him flee. This makes the rest of the battle a lot easier.

3 - Try to have at least 4 cavalry units. Seeing as Saba cavalry are generally pretty bad, use them together whenver possible, especially when you are trying to cause a rout. Once the unit is routed, then you can break them up for other tasks.