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Thread: Australia vs Indonesia

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  1. #1

    Default Australia vs Indonesia

    Given that the Australia vs Canada scenario in another thread was too silly for words, how about a real 'What If'. Whenever the Australian armed forces conducts war games the 'Red Team' is always closely modelled on our large neighbour to the north and given that Indonesia and Australia came to the brink of a shooting war over East Timor in 1999, a scenario where Australia finally goes to war with Indonesia is an actual possibility.

    Try this:-

    1. Indonesia's experiment with democracy fails under the weight of corruption, internal scandals and Javanese frustration with continuing regional separatist movements. The politically powerful military, marginalised since the fall of Suharto, mount a coup and politically-oriented generals, backed by Kopassus special forces troops, establish a hardline junta.

    2. Relations between Jakarta and Canberra steadily sour as the new Indonesian regime cracks down hard on separatists in Aceh and West Papua. Pro-Jakarta elements in the Australian Department of Foreign Affairs are shunted aside by Defence Ministry pragmatists, as Indonesia openly backs West Timorese militias in cross border raids into the fledgeling state of East Timor.

    3. Tensions rise as Australia deploys a new, UN-flagged force to East Timor at the request of President Xanana Gusmao. Escalating border-skirmishes between Australian troops and West Timorese militias. The Australian press alleges Kopassus involvement in cross-border raids, which Jakarta denies.

    4. Concurrently, spiralling law and order problems in Papua New Guinea lead to a military coup in Port Morseby. Resisting strong Australian and international diplomatic pressure, the Papuan military junta encourages West Papuan insurgents against Indonesia. Australia cuts all aid to Papua New Guinea. Papua funnels arms to West Papuan rebels in return for promised resources from rebel zones as the newly armed rebels make inroads against an already overstretched Indonesian Army.

    5. Jakarta moves more forces into West Papua to deal with the emboldened rebels. Civilian massacres make international headlines.

    6. Spurred by media reports of junta oppression of non-Papuans and Australian citizens, Canberra intervenes militarily in Papua New Guinea, otherthrowing the junta and re-imposing protectorate status on Papua. Taken with ongoing clashes with Australian-led troops in East Timor, setbacks in Aceh and an increasingly strong alliance between the Indonesian junta and militant Islamic groups, the junta ratchets up the anti-Australian rhetoric. Massive anti-Australian protests in Java and the Australian Embassy in Jakarta is bombed. Jama Islamia claims responsibility, citing Australian intervention in Timor and New Guinea.

    7. Huge protests against the junta in Jakarta and other major Javanese cities brutally repressed. Indonesian offensives in Aceh and West Papua, involving civilian massacres, widely reported. Fifteen Australian troops from 1RAR killed in a cross border firefight in East Timor and, on the same day, Australian mining company executives are arrested and summarily executed by Kopassus troops in West Papua. Anti-Indonesian outcry in the Australian media.

    8. Huge protests in all Australian capital cities demanding a concerted response to Indonesian military aggression. The UN Security Council passes resolution condemning the Indonesian junta. Cross-border skirmishing between Australian troops in Papua New Guinea and Indonesian forces in West Papua. Unconfirmed reports of Australian SAS units already operating in West Papua.

    9. An RAAF flight over the Torres Strait overflying Australian naval vessels en route to Papua New Guinea attack Indonesian warplanes, downing several. The Jakarta junta declares open war on Australia.

    Given this fictional scenario, what happens next?

  2. #2

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    Indonesia gives pirates free hands. Australia gets basically cut off from the world. Britain and US have to install an air-lift. -> oil prices rise, global economy gets wrecked. Only Indonesia becomes richest country in the world due to loot from merchant ships. -> Australia is happy to surrender. Indonesia launches "ARP" Australian recovery programme. Indonesian way of life gets installed in Australia.

    (I forgot: of course the valiant Australian SAS doesn't surrender, they are fighting from there bases in Free Australia (Alice Springs and surrounding region) against the Government of "Vichy-Australia" and their Indonesian Overlords. Although they are referred to with derogative terms in Vichy-Australian TV they keep on fighting for their cause.)
    Last edited by balleny; December 01, 2005 at 05:34 AM.

  3. #3
    Civitate
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    Our navy is not that bad, they are just bogged down in border patrols. The pirates are no match for the Australian navy and airforce, the first battles will take place in East Timor and WPNG. The Australian troops would have anticipated the Indonesian attacks due to recon from the SAS and the first few Indonesian offensives are crushed with heavy losses on the Indonesian side. The Indonesians decide to lay siege to East Timor. In West Papua the Australians gain some territory due to air superiority, but are halted by the huge numbers of Indonesian Juntas which then results in a temporary stalemate...

    (well that's my first war scenario, Im sleepy as hell so I hope it didnt suck too much)
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  4. #4
    TW Bigfoot
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    Our navy is not that bad
    if i remeber correctly it kicked the US pacific fleets ass in the war games.

    id say its pretty good.
    Plus theres the Austrlian SAS. and an army with expirenced soilders in it.

    an indo-Australian war is possible, but probably wouldnt happen unless one side thoguht they could gain a strong advantage early on in the fighting (pearl harbour?)

  5. #5
    imb39's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    International piracy on the scale that has been described will draw in America and Britain. Both have strong ties with Indonesia. Australia will not be isolated. That's laughable. As has been said, the Australian navy is very good for its size.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by imb39
    International piracy on the scale that has been described will draw in America and Britain. Both have strong ties with Indonesia. Australia will not be isolated. That's laughable. As has been said, the Australian navy is very good for its size.

    I initially included Britain and the US. But pirates usually don't wait for the navy to come.
    Besides they ally with pirates in Somalia and therefore assault shipping from the Persian gulf. Scotland takes the chance and secedes from Britain, taking North Sea oil with them. No fuel for the Royal Navy. Muslim countries support muslim Indonesia with donations and oil producing coutries embargo the West. Venezuela stirs up Latin America.
    (Hey this is a what if, we are making a lot of únrealistic assumptions right from the beginning).

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by balleny
    I initially included Britain and the US. But pirates usually don't wait for the navy to come.
    Besides they ally with pirates in Somalia and therefore assault shipping from the Persian gulf. Scotland takes the chance and secedes from Britain, taking North Sea oil with them. No fuel for the Royal Navy. Muslim countries support muslim Indonesia with donations and oil producing coutries embargo the West. Venezuela stirs up Latin America.

    (Hey this is a what if, we are making a lot of únrealistic assumptions right from the beginning).
    Everything in my original scenario is based on stuff that has happened already or has happened before - military interventions in politics in Indonesia and Papua New Guinea, rebels in Aceh and West Papua, Australian-Indonesian clashes in East Timor, Aussies being killed in West Papua, rumoured Aussie SAS operations in West Papua etc. Nothing I've presented is in any way 'unrealistic'.

    The idea that any 'pirates' in the region would have any impact at all, however, is pure, silly fantasy. Let's stick to things that are actually likely or reasonable. Otherise we might as well stir invading Martians into the mix.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThiudareiksGunthigg
    Everything in my original scenario is based on stuff that has happened already or has happened before - military interventions in politics in Indonesia and Papua New Guinea, rebels in Aceh and West Papua, Australian-Indonesian clashes in East Timor, Aussies being killed in West Papua, rumoured Aussie SAS operations in West Papua etc. Nothing I've presented is in any way 'unrealistic'.
    Ok. No Martians.
    So Indonesia has about 10x as much inhabitants as Australia. Government and public opinion don't care that much about loss in human lfe. Australian public does. Compare to the US in Vietnam or Iraq and those countries are much smaller than the US, not the other way round. So Australia will have some operations in West-Irian and Timor, but sooner or later losses will turn public opnion against the initial jingoism in your scenario and the government will have to withdraw the troops. I assume there will be no direct assault on Java.
    Last edited by balleny; December 01, 2005 at 06:58 AM.

  9. #9

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    Hmmmm...
    Largest Islamic nation on earth.

    Last European bastion in Asia.

    I don't think the conflict would remain 'regional' for very long...do you?

    Besides...the Indons are our friends, aren't they?

    I believe they key issue here is 'force projection'

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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThiudareiksGunthigg
    Aussies being killed in West Papua, rumoured Aussie SAS operations in West Papua etc. Nothing I've presented is in any way 'unrealistic'.
    Quite possible...

  11. #11

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    Long before Australia declares war the US would step in. Indonezia has oil Remember how East Timor got its independence? NATO had just trashed Yugoslavia over Kossovo when Indonesia tried to imitate Milosevic. US "advised" against and the Indonezian leaders, with the Kossovo example fresh in their memories, were not curious to see what NATO or US can do to them.
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  12. #12
    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    I on the other hand think that East Timor gaining independence was preferrable to Christian genocide... Oil or not.

    On topic: Indonesia has no significant navy, if I am not mistaken...

  13. #13

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    These are getting a little out of hand....but to play along because i am a self proclaimed forum wh*re lol.... In this case I would have to say that Indonesia wouldn't stand a chance. (no offense, but let's be real here)

    And that's without US aid, they wouldn't need it.
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  14. #14
    Carach's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Australia win.

  15. #15

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    i dont think the australians could hold out in a total war (haha) against the indonesians for very long but the indonesians wouldnt be stupid enough to attack australia. the US and Ausralia have a military alliance called ANZUS where they pledge to defend eachother
    so if indonesia does declare war first then the US jumps in
    war over
    more oil for us americans
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  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudd The Crazy
    i dont think the australians could hold out in a total war (haha) against the indonesians for very long but the indonesians wouldnt be stupid enough to attack australia. the US and Ausralia have a military alliance called ANZUS where they pledge to defend eachother
    so if indonesia does declare war first then the US jumps in
    war over
    more oil for us americans
    If the US did join, and there was a joint aus-US land invasion of indonesia, do you really think that america could handle the likely insurgency? especially if this was gonna happen soon whilst they are still in Iraq. I reckon that there would be no land war at all, indonesia has too many islands and australia is too big. Japan never planned to invade australia, theres just not much point doing so. except maybe the lovely uranium

  17. #17
    the_mango55's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Quote Originally Posted by viteLius
    If the US did join, and there was a joint aus-US land invasion of indonesia, do you really think that america could handle the likely insurgency? especially if this was gonna happen soon whilst they are still in Iraq. I reckon that there would be no land war at all, indonesia has too many islands and australia is too big. Japan never planned to invade australia, theres just not much point doing so. except maybe the lovely uranium
    The US is facing the insurgency it is in Iraq because it was such a light handed invasion. If we were to invade indonesia we may fight them in the same way we did Japan(without the nukes). Bomb their cities flat, then when they look like they might be ok, bomb them some more. Idonesia will be a defeated enemy who will want no part of insurgency by the time we invade.

    I don't actually think that this will happen, and I don't think it would be a good thing at all. Just saying that it is possible.
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  18. #18

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    thats the way to fight a war. yeah! bomb em back to the stone age.
    WOOOOT
    ok im a little too excited. but hey its snowing and i cant help it
    The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be used until they try and take it away.
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  19. #19
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    i dont think the australians could hold out in a total war (haha) against the indonesians for very long but the indonesians wouldnt be stupid enough to attack australia. the US and Ausralia have a military alliance called ANZUS where they pledge to defend eachother
    THe problem with the Indonesian military is that it has one of the biggest armies in the world, but it has nearly no navy and it's airfoce is small and reliant on western parts for maintenence. My take is that the Indonesians will never be able to launch a major offensive into Australia soil because they will not be able to defeat the Australian airforce and navy in the Timor sea.
    "In bourgeois society capital is independent and has individuality, while the living person is dependent and has no individuality." - Karl Marx on Capitalism
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  20. #20

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    but of course the government could declare a "jihad" and then australia would have to deal with suicide bombers....
    The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be used until they try and take it away.
    Staff Officer of Corporal_Hicks in the Legion of Rahl
    Commanding Katrina, Crimson Scythe, drak10687 and Leonidas the Lion

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