View Poll Results: Which aspect of the corrections system is most important? (descriptions in post)

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  • Deterrence

    12 27.27%
  • Rehabilitation

    14 31.82%
  • Incapacitation

    5 11.36%
  • Punishment

    13 29.55%
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Thread: Most Important aspect of prisons

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  1. #1
    the_mango55's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Most Important aspect of prisons

    1. Use the severity of the punishment to deter people from commiting crimes. Deterence is somewhat effective, but has proven to be almost completely ineffective at detering people who are addicts or drug trafficers
    2. Reforming people who commit crimes to keep them from coming back. Many consider it a failure, but there is evidence that it works. It is less effective for sex offenders.
    3. Simply keeping the criminals separated from the general public so that they cannot commit crimes. American prisons seem to be doing a good job at this, as more criminals are in prison than any other nation.
    4. Make the criminals pay for their crimes. This one seems to have mostly been forgotten in America, as criminals often have luxuries that they have never enjoyed on the streets, such as cable TV, lots of free time, and free education (if they would only use it)
    ttt
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  2. #2
    Prince Kassad
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    I voted for option 1. Same reason I support the death penalty - in town square.

    Death is the only thing some people are afraid of, which is why we need it as a punishment.

  3. #3
    imb39's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Kassad
    I voted for option 1. Same reason I support the death penalty - in town square.

    Death is the only thing some people are afraid of, which is why we need it as a punishment.
    I know that there is another thread about the death penalty but I thought I would respond a little here.

    My views on the death penalty were formed when I was young after watching the film 10 Rillington Place. It was about a serial killer called John Christie. Someone was executed for a murder he almost certainly committed...

    Christie's first known victim was a mistress, Ruth Fuerst, whom he impulsively strangled during sex in 1943. The following year, he murdered a neighbor, Muriel Eady, by promising to cure her bronchitis with a "special mixture," a gas he had concocted which contained carbon monoxide that would render a person unconscious; once Eady was knocked out, Christie strangled her to death, and raped her corpse. It was a ritual Christie would compulsively act out for the rest of his life.

    Christie was the landlord of 10 Rillington Place in North Kensington, London, where he and his wife had lived since 1938. He buried both Fuerst and Eady in the building's communal garden plot. He took on new tenants in 1948: Timothy Evans and his wife, Beryl, who soon gave birth to a daughter, Geraldine. In November 1949, she became pregnant again, but feared that they could not afford another child. According to Christie's later confession, he promised the couple that he could abort the baby.

    On November 8, he used his "special gas" to incapacitate Beryl, whom he strangled and raped. When Evans returned from work that night, Christie told him his wife had died during the procedure and that they had to hide the body to avoid prison, as abortion was, at the time, illegal in England. Christie then convinced Evans, whom Kennedy describes as a gullible man with an IQ of 70, to stay with a relative in Wales and leave Geraldine in his care. Evans later said that he returned to the flat several times to ask about Geraldine, but Christie had refused to let him see her, saying that it was too soon to take her back.

    On November 30, Evans went to the police in Merthyr Tydfil and confessed to accidentally killing Beryl by giving her "abortion pills," and then disposing of her body in a sewer drain. He told the police that, after arranging for Geraldine to be looked after, he had gone to Wales. When police examined the drain, however, they found nothing. When re-questioned, Evans said that Christie had offered to provide an abortion for Beryl. Evans had returned home from work on November 7 to find Beryl dead. He said Christie then disposed of the body and made arrangements for some people to look after Geraldine while Evans laid low.

    During a search of 10 Rillington Place, on December 2, 1949, the police found the bodies of Beryl and Geraldine hidden in the wash house in the back garden. Both had been strangled. When Evans was shown the clothing taken from the bodies of his wife and child, he was asked whether he was responsible for their deaths, and said “Yes.” He now confessed to having strangled Beryl during an argument over debts on November 8, 1949, and strangling Geraldine two days later, after which he left for Wales.

    This confession, along with other, contradictory statements Evans made during the police interrogation, is often cited as proof of his guilt, although Kennedy writes that the interrogation he went under was brutal and manipulative. In any event, Evans recanted, and the case went to trial. Christie was a key witness for the prosecution, and was instrumental in Evans being found guilty. Evans was hanged on March 9, 1950.

    Christie murdered four women over the next three years, including his wife. He moved out of 10 Rillington Place in 1953. Soon after, a maintenance man discovered the bodies in the cellar. A citywide manhunt ensued, ending weeks later when Christie was arrested while looking for dock work.

    While in prison, Christie confessed to murdering all of the women found in the celler, as well as Beryl Evans. He was found guilty of murdering his wife and hanged in 1953. Evans was granted a posthumous pardon in 1966.
    Just food for thought...

  4. #4

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    I voted 1, although creating an environment favourable to a later rehabilitation is also a primary goal. It's the only way to prevent former prisoners to return immediately to their illegal activities. Admittedly, it depends on each individual's character, thereby making it highly unpredictable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Kassad
    I voted for option 1. Same reason I support the death penalty - in town square.

    Death is the only thing some people are afraid of, which is why we need it as a punishment.
    Do you truly think it frightens criminals off? Most of the murderers are one the brink of insanity. Their judgement isn't that of a normal person and they often regret their crimes afterwards when they have time to think back (usually when they're in jail). I don't know if prisons in the USA are luxurious, but I assure you people wouldn't like to spend a life's time in a French old and overcrowded prison. If handguns were forbidden to civilians in the USA, perhaps there would be fewer people shot down?
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  5. #5
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    Deleted by user.
    Last edited by Kino; January 17, 2007 at 02:59 AM.

  6. #6
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    I voted 1 without reading your post, after having read your post I vote 2. Just minus 1 from the deterrance count.
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  7. #7

  8. #8

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    I voted 2, but now most drug dealers will think twice before smuggling drugs into Singapore...

    Well I guess prison systems were built as a punishment, but rehabilitatino is a nice touch, as majority of inmates tend to be serial offenders.

  9. #9

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    I think that the punishment aspect should be the most important. Prisoners, especially violent offenders, should have to perform hard labor and not spend their days watching cable television and writing books. Make them pay for their crimes; don't reward them by giving them a home that has better amenities than where they came from. How can prison time be an effective deterrent if prisons are designed like some three star hotel?

  10. #10

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    I posted my philosophy on this a ways back on a different thread.

    I'm with Godneptune on the hard labour without TV and Weight Rooms. I also suggest the labour be productive and contribute to the needy and the victims of crime (kids left without parents etc).

    Anyhoo. As for this thread, I just don't know how to vote. I think it's unrealistic to ignore 3 of the options and just pick 1.

    If you pinned me into a corner and forced me into a decision, I would instinctively go with whatever option kept my wife and 2 sons the safest. That being the case, 3 incarceration. Just get them away from my family.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeho730
    I voted 2, but now most drug dealers will think twice before smuggling drugs into Singapore...
    I presume you are refering to Nguyen Tuong Van a Australian citizen on deathrow for smuggling drug through Singapore. I think that is appaling...the guy is like 23 or something...it makes me sick. And to be exact the drugs were meant for Australia, he should have been arrested by the Australian Federal Police in Singapore...I don't see what right Singapore has to execute him...execution scehduled for this Friday...distguisting if you ask me...I don't know how we are letting this happen.
    "In bourgeois society capital is independent and has individuality, while the living person is dependent and has no individuality." - Karl Marx on Capitalism
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guderian
    I presume you are refering to Nguyen Tuong Van a Australian citizen on deathrow for smuggling drug through Singapore. I think that is appaling...the guy is like 23 or something...it makes me sick. And to be exact the drugs were meant for Australia, he should have been arrested by the Australian Federal Police in Singapore...I don't see what right Singapore has to execute him...execution scehduled for this Friday...distguisting if you ask me...I don't know how we are letting this happen.
    Same as Shappel Corby.... you guys seem get caught in drug smuggling quite often!

    But anyway, Singapore has an absolute right to punish that poor chap as he committed the crime in Singaporian soil and I assume Singapore is an independent nation, not a colony of Australia...

  13. #13
    Shadows's Avatar Lurking unseen...........
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    Whats wrong with severe punishment. Society has set a standard (aka laws) and some people choose to break them and in the end they sit in a cell for years costing us money while they plot what they might do when they get out. Noone is forced to commit a crime. I absolutly agree with the Singaporians arresting drug smugglers on their soil. It doesn't matter where the drugs are headed its where there at?

  14. #14

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    I voted number one. However, I think it should depend on the crime.
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  15. #15
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    I say rehab into the society, because I'm against simply writing people off for one act, especialy when its an act of desparation. of course a repeat offender would change the situation, or someone who has proved imopssible to rehabilitate, so its situational.

  16. #16
    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    "1" is somewhat important but studies have shown it's effect are very small.

    "2" and "3" are the most important.
    I voted "2" because re-habilitation is most beneficial to society.
    But not all criminals can be re-habilitated, and those who can must be seperated from society until the rehabilitation is complete.
    On second thought I should have voted "3".

    "4" is entirely irrelevant.
    It has no possitive effect on society and it only serves sadists who just like to see people suffer.



  17. #17
    Darth Wong's Avatar Pit Bull
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    I used to be a big believer in deterrent as a way to curb youth gang crime, which is the biggest problem facing my own city. Then I started thinking about the fact that so many youth gang members are killed by other youth gang members, and looking into the testimony of former youth gang members, and it occurs to me that the threat of being shot by a rival gang members is far more immediate than the threat of getting a longer prison sentence if the state successfully convicts you after a fair trial in front of a jury of your peers. So if they continue to engage in gang activities despite the threat of being shot and killed in the street or even hunted down and murdered at home, it's pretty obvious that longer or harsher prison sentences won't deter them.

    Mind you, this is specific to the youth gang issue.

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeho730
    ]But anyway, Singapore has an absolute right to punish that poor chap as he committed the crime in Singaporian soil and I assume Singapore is an independent nation, not a colony of Australia...
    I agree but the drugs were not meant for Singapore, and Singapre's mandatory death sentence for drug smuggling is intended to stop drugs getting into Singapore. They could have at least handed him over to Australia, or gave him a prison sentence.
    "In bourgeois society capital is independent and has individuality, while the living person is dependent and has no individuality." - Karl Marx on Capitalism
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  19. #19

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    Deterrence has yielded little in the way of results. In fact, studys indicate that violent crime increases after a criminal is put to death.

    I said incapacitation is the way to go, gets them out of decent society, however, it certainly doesn't solve the problem. Crime doesn't have a simply solution, if I've learned anything from my four years learning law, it's that.

  20. #20
    Carach's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    heh, human rights and political correctness screw up prisons.

    most prisons in england (exluding maximum security) have tvs, stereos, carpet...all kinds of stuff...no wonder most of the criminals re offend just to get back in, they better off in prison with free food and accomodation than than out in the real world.

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