Should authority be respected?

[Justinian]

Wow, the Christmas thread has the honor of being split three times... -Justinian

That doesn't mean that raising them to respect authority and never think for themselves is right.

I'm sure you, at your age, believe that respecting authority somehow cancels out being able to think for yourself, but that's just plain wrong. First: I'm younger then you.

I was raised believing my parents have authority. Because they do. They brought me into the world, feed me, clothe me, pay for eccentricities like my computer, my Internet. A new television. Buy me presents at Christmas, give me cake on my birthday. They deserve respect.

And I obviously think for myself. They're Christian, I'm not. They're neocon, I'm not. They're backwards; I'm not.

[DrakKassleron]

I didn't mind this before, but now I'm not going to be so moderate.

I'm just sick and tired of you not really addressing the points of the thread and spinning this whole thing off into lala land and how democracy is evil.

Hey, I was in a bad mood, ok? Can't you even try to accept that some people are more sensitive and have more mood swings than others?

I'm busting your communist chops because I think you are not only misguided and ill informed, but frankly dangerous to me and more importantly, my son.

Dangerous? Wow, you are the one seriously misguided here comrade, not me.

I just stated my opinion on raising children. I was talking about giving them freedom of speech, equality, and rights, allowing them to make discisions for themselves, etc. My opinion. How is that dangerous? It's only dangerous to religious conservatives who can't stand the thought of losing their power over young kids. I'm not saying that you are a religious conservative. Nor am I telling you how to raise your children. I am just stating my opinion. Ever heard of freedom of speech? Or doesn't it exist in America anymore?

If you can't stand someone just stating their opinion, especially when all I was doing was stating my own views on raising children, then how can we have an ordinary, civilised discussion on the forum?

I'm not bashing libs, but if they continue to ignore reality and live in fantasy land, the least I can do is offer up a nice cold glass of cool-aid for their journey.

Er....WTF are you talking about? What does that have to do with raising children or christmas?

If you were talking about my disgust of capitalism and corporations, then I don't see how that is "ignoring reality". What the hell is wrong with trying to make the world a more fair, equal, and honourable place? What exactly is wrong with that?

I tried very expressively to explain to you what I DID and how MY SON reacted. You proceded to take all of that, throw it back in my face, and then have the gual to say I'm a bad parent (and an evil capitalist).

Er, no. I didn't say either. When did I directly say those things in my post? I never said you were a bad parent. Where did I say you were an evil capitalist?

I was, for the last time, stating MY OPINION on raising children. I was not telling you how to do anything. How is a different view such a threat?

And it isn't very democratic or fair to be against everything that is just different, is it?

If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen

What are you talking about?

BTW....this isn't personal.

Then, why did you take offence at me expressing my opinion? I thought that free speech still existed in the U.S., and that most people still respected it and wanted it to remain. Prehaps I was wrong.

It's business. Let's remember that.

One that note.

I must tend to my family and give you my leave.

Good day good sirs.

I'm sorry, but I seriously don't see how giving a different opinion on raising children could be so wrong, to anyone.

I'm sure you, at your age, believe that respecting authority somehow cancels out being able to think for yourself, but that's just plain wrong. First: I'm younger then you.

Hold on, if you are younger than me, then you are younger than 16 and three quarters, correct?

Anyway, I despise most authority greatly, and sorry, but I'll never respect any authority.

And people of 16 or 17 can move into their own house, for the Red Controller's sake. They are hardly not adult.

And, please, don't say otherwise, when you know it is true.

I was raised believing my parents have authority. Because they do. They brought me into the world, feed me, clothe me, pay for eccentricities like my computer, my Internet. A new television. Buy me presents at Christmas, give me cake on my birthday. They deserve respect.

You are possibly correct. I still don't agree with that line of thinking.

And I obviously think for myself. They're Christian, I'm not. They're neocon, I'm not. They're backwards; I'm not.

Hold on.....your parents are christian neo-conservatives who support the Bush?

Personally, if my parents were like that, I'd move into my own house immediately and never speak to them again. But that's my way of doing things.

Now. Let's get back on topic.

Yes, I agree.

Drak - You are wrong, Alameda is right. He is teaching his kid right from wrong, to be a good human.

My point was that there shouldn't even be poor kids in a western country. No matter that there are, there shouldn't be.

Authority should be respected if it deserves to be respected. You are too black and white, try to step in all pairs of shoes don't just stick to an ideal.

Ok. Define authority that "deserves to be respected".

Bottom line: there isn't any.


I hope I have made my point.

[Justinian]

Hold on, if you are younger than me, then you are younger than 16 and three quarters, correct?

Indeed.

Anyway, I despise most authority greatly, and sorry, but I'll never respect any authority.

Good luck getting a job.

And people of 16 or 17 can move into their own house, for the Red Controller's sake. They are hardly not adult.

And, please, don't say otherwise, when you know it is true.

Do you have a job and enough money to pay for an apartment, clothing, food (which can cost at least $50 a week for one person eating crap), Internet, television, newspaper, heat, air conditioning...?

You are possibly correct. I still don't agree with that line of thinking.

Are you saying they don't do that?

Hold on.....your parents are christian neo-conservatives who support the Bush?

Well, my mother is. My father is more moderate, like myself.

Personally, if my parents were like that, I'd move into my own house immediately and never speak to them again. But that's my way of doing things.

See a few lines above.

Ok. Define authority that "deserves to be respected".

Bottom line: there isn't any.

If there was no "authority" which was respected the world would fall apart, including your dream Communist state.

[DrakKassleron]

Indeed.

What does that mean? How old, then? 16 and a half?

I always guessed that you were about 17, for some reason.

Good luck getting a job.

I can't get a job because I am disabled. The government gives me money to spend on normal living. If I didn't get that I wouldn't be able to get any money at all.

Understand now?

Do you have a job and enough money to pay for an apartment, clothing, food (which can cost at least $50 a week for one person eating crap), Internet, television, newspaper, heat, air conditioning...?

See above.

Are you saying they don't do that?

No, I'm saying that you're possibly correct that people should sometimes respect their parents. That doesn't mean authority, though.

Well, my mother is. My father is more moderate, like myself.

That's a little unusual......your mother is a christian neo-conservative bush supporter and your father isn't? Usually women are more liberal.........

If there was no "authority" which was respected the world would fall apart, including your dream Communist state.

Not necessarily.

An opinion which is not informed by experience.

I know for a fact that children raised in very conservative households often never think for themselves. That is what I do know.

[Justinian]

I can't get a job because I am disabled. The government gives me money to spend on normal living. If I didn't get that I wouldn't be able to get any money at all.

Understand now?

Ah.

No, I'm saying that you're possibly correct that people should sometimes respect their parents. That doesn't mean authority, though.

Okay ... no one should respect authority. Will you still think this when you're directing your communist state? Wouldn't no one respecting your authority lead to the collapse of your state?

Not necessarily.

Name me a country, store, household or any other group of humans which could survive with no authority or respect to authority?

I know for a fact that children raised in very conservative households often never think for themselves. That is what I do know.

And you're wrong. My father was raised by conservatives and definitely thinks for himself. I and my two brothers were raised by a moderate and a neocon lunatic and we all think for ourselves. I have never met a brainwashed neocon minor over the age of 10.

By the way, neocons help your cause. The children of neocons are likely to become liberals because of rebelliousness if their neocon parents try to force their beliefs on their children. :wink:

[Atheist Peace]

Authority should never, under any circumstances, be respected because it is authority. Authority can be respected based on its real merits, but never should respect be based on the authority itself. All authority should be questioned, and you should always be on guard for people with authority to look for more. Authority is never a reason to respect someone or something, and if anything it is the opposite, most authority either starts corrupt, or becomes so, and that should be kept in mind at all times.

[Guderian]

You beat me to it AP damn...The only authority that should be respected is the one that allows it's authority to be questioned.

[Francisco Montana]

The only authority that should be respected is the one that allows it's authority to be questioned.

Not if we're talking Parents / Kids.

Sorry, I love my son more than anyone can imagine.

But this 'authority' is nonnegociable.

Like my dad once said, "No, Lord Alameda (no, really, that's my name!), this family is NOT a democracy. You don't pay us any taxes, anyway." :wink:

Now that's obviously not to say a kid should have to undure abuse (mental or physical), by any means.

[Fenris]

Authority should be respected, but not blindly. There's no answer who can engulf all the possibilities. So I will only say: it depends.

[Ó Cathasaigh]

Which defeats the point....If you're not allowed to disrespect athority......how will you disrespect athority and get away with it???

[Guderian]

Was that addresed to me Corp? Cause now Im confused...

[Ó Cathasaigh]

Ja Ja comerade

[Francisco Montana]

Argh, Justinian. As much as I lub you, you are fugging up the threads!!!

I'm copy/pasting this reply from the other half of this thread that didnt seem to make it over here (even though the post I was replying to, did lol)
-------------------------------------------------

Hey, I was in a bad mood, ok?

As a matter of fact, I was in a ripe old mood myself. How about we give eachother one free pass then.

Dangerous? Wow, you are the one seriously misguided here comrade, not me.

Have you any idea how many people were murdred in the Bolshavic Revolution, or by Pol Pot, or by Red China, or by Viet Nam?

Communists are dangerous to me and my children. I've seen your sorted past. You murder people and confiscate their property in the name of the State. Don't try to cute it all up with your modern take on it. It's the same principle, and it's a proven failure and menace to society.

Er....WTF are you talking about? What does that have to do with raising children or christmas?

Actually this whole cool-aid thing is an inside joke that some get, and others don't. It's a harmless play at liberal tendancies, if you will.

Er, no. I didn't say either. When did I directly say those things in my post? I never said you were a bad parent. Where did I say you were an evil capitalist?

All I remember is trying to share a beautiful story about how loving and caring my 3 yr old son already is, and you came at me with "well you're just being evil to him making him give up his toys...what a horrible capatilst you are, bad" Right after I had attempted to warm the mood around Christmas with a nice story about a darn good kid. My son, Perry.

As a matter of fact, a couple other 'more left leaning' TWCers felt my misdirected rage over the whole thing after you left last night. SOmething I've already apologized for, but that's how upset you made me. I strongly suggest you word your critisims to a parent carefully, esepciatlly one who takes so much pride in his work and his love for his child.

Ok. Define authority that "deserves to be respected".

Bottom line: there isn't any.

This is the sad part.

I won't even speculate how you came to that tragic conclusion.

[Justinian]

Argh, Justinian. As much as I lub you, you are fugging up the threads!!!

I'm copy/pasting this reply from the other half of this thread that didnt seem to make it over here (even though the post I was replying to, did lol)

That's because you posted after I split the thread. :wink:

And I can't edit out half a post, leave it, and split the other half into a new topic. So I had to leave all of them which had anything to do with the topic in the topic. Sorry.

If that's the case, it would be interesting to see all the younger opinions.

Here's my opinion. You would die without your parents, so respect their authority.

But...

If your parents have ridiculous notions about what you should do, fight them.

[John I Tzimisces]

If your parents have ridiculous notions about what you should do, fight them.

Also keeping in mind, "ridiculous" does not entail, "No, sorry, you can't go out tonight"...

[Justinian]

Oooh. Spiritually I hope you mean.

Well, no, I'm not going to wrestle with my father...

I suggest you seek outside and advice should you find your parents are abusive of their authority.

How about this. My brother is engaged and is about to finish high school and go to college (he's 17) and my parents, especially my mother, throw a gigantic fit whenever he wants to go see his fiancée for a few hours. It takes a few hours for him to argue them into letting him go, and my mother treats him like she's doing him a favor, and as a result of this incredible fighting his fiancée just unofficially broke up with him because she couldn't stand it.

Is that not an abuse of authority?

(I'm talking beatings, mental abuse etc...not simply not letting you watch TV all day)

We don't even have TV at the Justinian Residence. I'm cool with that.

What if the kid is ridiculous? What if the child's lesserly developed frontal lobe can't comprehend the higher order thinking of a more experienced and physically matured elder?

Argument holds no water. My parents are not higher lifeforms then I am.

i would also recommend researching the effects of drugs and alcohol on developing brains. You'll quickly find yourself reconsidering the drinking age.

Oh ****!

[Francisco Montana]

fight them.

Oooh. Spiritually I hope you mean. Fighting your parents will only land one or both of you in jail.

I suggest you seek outside advice from an older relative or a counslor at school should you find your parents are abusive of their authority.

(I'm talking beatings, mental abuse etc...not simply not letting you watch TV all day)

[bdh]

But...

If your parents have ridiculous notions about what you should do, fight them.

What if the kid is ridiculous? What if the child's lesserly developed frontal lobe can't comprehend the higher order thinking of a more experienced and physically matured elder?

To confirm this in living humans, the UCLA researchers compared MRI scans of young adults, 23-30, with those of teens, 12-16.4 They looked for signs of myelin, which would imply more mature, efficient connections, within gray matter. As expected, areas of the frontal lobe showed the largest differences between young adults and teens. This increased myelination in the adult frontal cortex likely relates to the maturation of cognitive processing and other "executive" functions.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/teenbrain.cfm


nothing like scientific proof. i would also recommend researching the effects of drugs and alcohol on developing brains. You'll quickly find yourself reconsidering the drinking age.

[Francisco Montana]

What if the kid is ridiculous? What if the child's lesserly developed frontal lobe can't comprehend the higher order thinking of a more experienced and physically matured elder?

I don't really understand your statement, let alone any point you're trying to make.

The only thing I can think of is you are saying this: "But what if the child is unable to determine if they are being abused or not?"

Is that close? If that's the Q I would assert that this is where Child Protective Services or an alert relative would come into play.

Parents aren't perfect, anymore than kids are. We've simply had more experience, and if you are like me, you have a very vested interest in your childs success in life. (Because I love him so much!)

How about this. My brother is engaged and is about to finish high school and go to college (he's 17) and my parents, especially my mother, throw a gigantic fit whenever he wants to go see his fiancée for a few hours. It takes a few hours for him to argue them into letting him go, and my mother treats him like she's doing him a favor, and as a result of this incredible fighting his fiancée just unofficially broke up with him because she couldn't stand it.

Is that not an abuse of authority?

It's not fair for me to second guess your mother's position without knowing her reasons, etc. My hunch, right off the bat, is that your parents are a littel concerned for your brother as you state he's already ENGAGED and not even out of HS yet. At 17 yrs old, marriage is the last thing with which you need to be burdoned. Trust me on this one!

Anway, it's just too vague a situation as presented. I know you somewhat, and find it hard to believe your parents are lacking in their duties. (Although I don't approve of caving in to your kids!!! Big parental NO NO, Mommy Justinian!! ) Then again, I don't have any teenagers (yet) so maybe I should cut your Mum some slack hehe.

[Guderian]

I did not say your not allowed to disrespect authority, I said that the only kind of authority that should be respected is one that allows it to be questioned.

If you want you can disrepect authority all you like...:wink: