Attention All British people: The Nazis are taking over!

[Prince Kassad]

The state used to have one shot at prosecution. If you wee acquitted, you could not be put in double jeopardy by being tried again for the same offence. This protection will disappear under our current Criminal Justice Bill, and it will be made retroactive. We used to operate on the principle of conviction before sentence, that you had to be convicted before you could be punished, but now we can take money from suspected drug dealers and criminal gangsters if we suspect that it was amassed illegally.

http://bastiat.net/en/Bastiat2001/madsen.pirie.html

Everybody is getting upset about the Patriot Act - yet such an important legal principle is struck down without a peep out of the British masses.

I'll comment more on this later...

EDIT: Ahhh, no one is interested. You're hurting Prince Kassad's feelings...

I juiced up the title a little to get more people to look at the thread.

[Prince Kassad]

http://bastiat.net/en/Bastiat2001/madsen.pirie.html

Everybody is getting upset about the Patriot Act - yet such an important legal principle is struck down without a peep out of the British masses.

I'll comment more on this later...

EDIT: Ahhh, no one is interested. You're hurting Prince Kassad's feelings...

someone merged. Okay, I can take this rejection...

Any British people interested - any?

[Francisco Montana]

I was interested but as I'm not british I felt a need to ponder this one before I commented.

See, some of us actually do think before we type....hehe.

Anyway, for now I will say, Don't take it personal. Threads sometimes take a few hours to get going, and then it's gangbusters more time's than not.

EDIT-- What's with the new title? Ahhh, NM, attention getter....gotcha! lol

[the Black Prince]

abandoning double jeapody is no big deal really

there are very very few cases where the law is ever questioned here, and the one area where it would regulartly apply has long been overruled.

double jeapody means you can't be tried for the same crime twice.
BUT if new evidence is discovered that wasn't known at the time of the original trial a case can be re-examined, and indeed, retried, by way of prosecution appeal to the CoA.

by aboloshing double jeopady, the case can now be retried in front of the corwn or high court with a jury... thats surely a good thing

as to the other part

its a long standing common law principle that the law will not let people use a statute to commit fraud, and will not let people profit from illegal enterprise.
this is simply codifying an area of law that has existed since the 1800s anyway...

[Prince Kassad]

But without double jeopardy, the government can just keep throwing accusations at you for the same crime that you were proven innocent of until you're forced to file for bankruptcy from the legal fees.

An excellent weapon for a tyranny...

[the Black Prince]

don't be absurd... the judge would throw the case out of court if the same case were brought with no new evidence, not to mention the CPS (who make the decision to prosecute, not the government) would never prosecute in such a situation... a waste of their resources too...

[Prince Kassad]

don't be absurd... the judge would throw the case out of court if the same case were brought with no new evidence, not to mention the CPS (who make the decision to prosecute, not the government) would never prosecute in such a situation... a waste of their resources too...

Yes, all government lawyers are just little angels who would never dream of infringing your rights...

[the Black Prince]

the CPS aren't government lawyers, they work for the civil service, not the government. goverment laywers work for the government legal service not the CPS...

[imb39]

I suspect we have more faith in our government/legal process than you do in yours... There are plenty of safeguards in place. TBH, if tBP is happy with it (being the resident legal expert), then it's probably OK.

What concerns me is when juries are restricted on the basis of cost. I can understand when it comes to complex cases such as fraud.

[Prince Kassad]

There are plenty of safeguards in place.

Double Jeopardy laws were one of those safeguards. How many more are going to get struck down before Europe wakes up and smells the coffee?

[Tom Paine]

Double Jeopardy laws were one of those safeguards. How many more are going to get struck down before Europe wakes up and smells the coffee?

Actually Double Jeopardy is still pretty much there as it always was. You can't be taken to court unless compelling new evidence is found against you. And as always, you can still be taken to court on a related but different charge. Meh?

[Prince Kassad]

Actually Double Jeopardy is still pretty much there as it always was. You can't be taken to court unless compelling new evidence is found against you. And as always, you can still be taken to court on a related but different charge. Meh?

Do you have any idea how easy it is to find "compelling new evidence"? They could spend years digging up "compelling new evidence" against you.

[Cradds]

Kassad , The Double jepordy law, is outdated, people who have been found Not Guilty of things such as murder, have as soon as they have stepped out of the Court room ADMITTED they actually killed them surely for such a rule to remain in place is just plain wrong, how would you feel if you where the close family of a person who was murdered, the guilty party was acquited, and then he admitted it they system should NOT protect criminals it is there to proscute them! and how the HELL does this have anything to do with the NAZI's taking over :S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CommanderSela]

The Double jepordy law is outadated? I'm sorry but we have the same system in Canada. And it is not outdated. The main problem with the justice system today is the media. If their wishes are not satisfied they will make their own justice. I don't want to live in a big brother society were the state is a monster for the citizen. However, many political analyst see changes in the British political system. England democracy turn into a form of totalitarian democracy. Vote and shut up. I see the same changes in Canada since the goverment don't care about the people until the elections. I had a teacher who said Goverment is a synonim of bandits! I hope Paul Martin and his Liberals go in JAIL.

[Cradds]

The Double jepordy law is outadated? I'm sorry but we have the same system in Canada. And it is not outdated. The main problem with the justice system today is the media. If their wishes are not satisfied they will make their own justice. I don't want to live in a big brother society were the state is a monster for the citizen. However, many political analyst see changes in the British political system. England democracy turn into a form of totalitarian democracy. Vote and shut up. I see the same changes in Canada since the goverment don't care about the people until the elections. I had a teacher who said
Goverment is a synonim of bandits! I hope Paul Martin and his Liberals go in JAIL.

So what have you to say to the family ( whom i actually KNOW) whose husband was murdered and the killer admitted it ?! if that's not out of date ten i don't know what is, and i have no idea about what your talking about a totalitarian democracy ( the two are mutually exclusive) just becasue Labour has a majority does not make it a totalitarian state ! (check the defination) politics in GB is a mess i'll give you that however in my mind the time for liberalism is well past considering wordly events and the double jepordy law needs to be changed!

[Tom Paine]

But what the hell's the point? And its better than the US system of detention without trial. At least we only have that for, at most, two weeks (though possibly to be 90 days... still better than indefinite)

[the Black Prince]

and if that compelling new evidence proved a man was guilty of a crime he'd been found innocent of?

thats called corrective justice. the retrial, and subsequent convictions corrects the mistake of the previous court based on lack of evidence


howabout a man was found guilty... sent to jail, serving a sentance.
new evidence found, man appeals, court of appeal orders a retrial. man aquitted. evidence proves he couldn't have committed the crime. miscarriage of justice corrected.


in all honesty, double jeopody has so very rarely been relevant in the law
ever.

simply because the court of appeal and house of lords have had, since their inception, the right to order retrials, including if new evidence comes to light.


and no, its not easy to find compelling new evidence.
pretty much the only way compelling new evidence is found is if
a) a random event unearths some previously hidden evidence
b) the police re-examine old dubious or unsolved cases with new evidential and investigative techniques, usually DNA testing

the police simply do not have the resources to constantly keep investigating cases years after the event.

[Prince Kassad]

But what the hell's the point? And its better than the US system of detention without trial. At least we only have that for, at most, two weeks (though possibly to be 90 days... still better than indefinite)

Detention without trial? Two words: bail and acquittal.

[Tom Paine]

Detention without trial? Two words: bail and acquittal.

Guantnamo?

[Prince Kassad]

Guantnamo?

Yes, all twelve Americans sent there would agree with you.

May I remind you of the EUs deportation laws? For example a French citizen could be taken to another EU member, like Greece to stand trial.

Both systems have bad traits that have developed recently - so don't stand there and throw stones as if you people don't have any problems of your own.