Changes in Turkey-a good summary of recent situation

[dogukan]

http://www.socialistreview.org.uk/ar...lenumber=11368

Letter from... by Ron Margulies , September 2010

For those interested, this letter sums up the recent situation in Turkey very well.
If you have heard, there is going to be a referendum on 12th September about constitution change.(anniversary of 1980 coup which created the current constitution. Truely symbolic)

Little note: Roni Marguiles, a member of "Revolutionary Socialist Workers Party(Trotkyist)", accused by majority Turkey left(Stalinist) as a liberal/ little bourguise, is Sephardic Jew who hates Israel and believes it is an illegal state found on other people's lands.

It has been a hot summer in Turkey. For two months it hasn't dipped below 30°C even in the cooler parts of the country, but the political temperature has been even higher.
Two issues have dominated: the government's attempt to amend 26 articles of the constitution, and the hotting up of the Kurdish national struggle.

The ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP), conservative, neoliberal, and from an Islamic tradition, has continued its attempt to break the stranglehold of the rabidly nationalist, aggressively secularist bureaucracy on the country's political life. The military, the judiciary, much of the media, and parts of academia have been resisting.

The current constitution was brought in after the military takeover of 1980. It is an anti-democratic straitjacket which put into place an oppressive state machine and upholds an unelected judiciary which can meddle at will with the decisions of the elected parliament. The Constitutional Court has even attempted to close down the government party, elected on 47 percent of the popular vote, on absurd charges of Islamism!

The government's proposed amendments change very little. But they do curtail the power of the judiciary. They also remove an article which blocks the prosecution of the perpetrators of the 1980 coup. The leader of the coup is still alive.

For 30 years the left argued for this constitution to be changed completely. Now, when at last an attempt is being made to make a big dent in it, almost all of the left, from the social democratic party to the far left, is arguing for a "no" vote in the referendum!

The unspoken argument is, "This is an Islamic government, Islam is reactionary, so we won't vote yes for anything it proposes." The argument actually being voiced is, "We want the whole thing changed, therefore we will vote against the changes or boycott the referendum".

Only two organisations of the left argue for a "yes" vote: the Revolutionary Socialist Workers Party (DSIP) and the Equality and Democracy Party (EDP). DSIP has initiated a "Not enough, but yes" campaign which has spread like wildfire. Even government ministers have been heard to use the slogan! The prime minister has said they would go for a wholesale change of the constitution after the general election next year. Opinion polls indicate there will be a "yes" vote of at least 60 percent.

In the midst of all this, it was time for the Supreme Military Council to decide on promotions in the top ranks. Usually the military decide and the government rubber-stamps their decision. This time the government put its foot down and refused to approve the promotion of several generals who are being or are about to be prosecuted for plotting coups.

The opposition social democrats screamed about the government interfering in the affairs of the military!

Calling Israeli president Shimon Peres a "killer" in Davos and being scathing about Israel during the attacks on Gaza in 2009 and on the aid flotilla this summer have certainly boosted the government's popularity. But no concrete measures against Israel have been taken, nor have any of the many bilateral military and economic treaties between the two countries been annulled. But even speaking out against Israel was in contrast to previous governments who have toed Washington's line and been great friends of Israel.

The government have even made moves towards some sort of solution to the Kurdish problem. They announced a "Kurdish Initiative" last year. This was even more cautious and faltering than their other reforms, and finally stalled some months ago. The Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) broke its ceasefire in June - the war heated up; the body-bags piled up. Its mission accomplished, the PKK again announced a ceasefire at the beginning of the holy month of Ramadan in August. It is now for the government to respond, and the signs are that it may.

It is 33°C, humidity is above 90 percent, we await the referendum and the government's response to the ceasefire, and the danger of a military coup, while very unlikely, is never out of our minds. A hot summer indeed!

AKP, current "conservative" pary was elected on 2010, and most of my "aware" political understanding shaped up during their rule. For the most part, I hated them...but recently, my views of them have changed completely. I am actually supporting them, even though I consider myself a socialist. And I get into a lot of heated arguements about supporting of a "free market" party. (thank god for DSIP, which leads the minority "yes" for constitution change)

I see AKP's reforms liberal changes(in the freedom sense, not economical. Even though, they are pretty much Laissez Faire). And during their rule, the country changed massively. It has became more civil and less of a police state. When in 90s, you could "dissapear" for saying certain things(especially about leftern ideologies and Kurdish issues-state mafia left from cold war days), you can freely talk about most of these issues openly today...on televisions, newspapers.

I see AKP as a beginning of change to break the Kemalist bureucracy and militarism. The weird thing is, most of the people who support Kemalists(CHP) are more European/western looking people. But I am generalizing. It has become some sort of a tradition that has to be broken down, NOW. Down with militarism, nationalism, fascism and their "fear" of Islamists taking over and destroying "secularity"

[white-wolf]

Lol, A communist supports a conservative party, lol. It is "only in Turkey" event, I think. It just shows hoe dynamics of Turkish political life are different than elsewhere; like leftist parties being conservative, jakoben and nationalist-sosyalist, and right parties of being reformist and liberal! lol again.

[Basil II the B.S]

And I thought I could read positive news about Turkey...

[dogukan]

And I thought I could read positive news about Turkey...

what is it that you don't like? I am actually very positive about the corner Turkey is turning.

[Basil II the B.S]

Kemalism is one of the most positive things of Turkey from my pov, so..

[Yosemite]

Kemalism is one of the most positive things of Turkey from my pov, so..

times change

time to make it better

[Basil II the B.S]

times change

time to make it better

Still, change into islamic conservatism? Meh.. doesn't look better to me.

Random anti-Israel stuff, which hides the actual anti-semitism rising in the muslim world, isn't that great either.

[white-wolf]

Still, change into islamic conservatism?

More likely change to islamist calvinism. What you can see in Turkey is rise of middle classes, "Anatolian" middle classes I mean.

[Platon]

you disappoint me dog..

AKP is there to only serve the interests of the elites.. nothing else!!


Now be a good boy, pick up these writings, and get back in line..

[The Noble Lord]

AKP is there to only serve the interests of the elites.. nothing else!!

I tend to disagree. So far the AKP has pleasantly surprised everybody including me. They turned out to be not only the breath of fresh air in the otherwise congested Turkish political scene, but also they proved themselves to be very capable and organized and also they genuinely believe into certain principles and goals and do their best to schieve those goals and to abide by those principles. That is an asset in politics, when you say what you think and when you do what you say!

[Nesimî]

you disappoint me dog..

AKP is there to only serve the interests of the elites.. nothing else!!


Now be a good boy, pick up these writings, and get back in line..

You dirty commie

[dogukan]

you disappoint me dog..

AKP is there to only serve the interests of the elites.. nothing else!!


Now be a good boy, pick up these writings, and get back in line..

Naa, I do not really care much about the competition between the bourguise to take control. But I believe we can get somethings from their fight.
The changing laws are all good...the only question is regarding the juidical system.

Still, change into islamic conservatism? Meh.. doesn't look better to me.

Random anti-Israel stuff, which hides the actual anti-semitism rising in the muslim world, isn't that great either.

No no no no...you would make a great Kemalist if you were here The same way of thinking.
First of all, there is NOTHING in the constitution change regarding anything religious.
Secondly, the "shariatic" nature of AKP is just a propoganda tool of CHP. They had been using the same excuse for years to make rant.Its all BS. It's been 8 years with AKP, no sharia so far. Not even religious laws. Nothing.
In fact, AKP had been the party to westernize the state and chase EU membership most. Not only that, but they have also increased relations with neighbours GREATLY(with Greece and Armenia as well)
It is under their rule, Soumela Monestry was opened for a praying after more than 80 years.
It was AKP which broke the nationalist statements all politicians had been saying.

also you have a Greek nickname, and your member of the Jewish ancestry group.
Both these nationalities had suffered badly under the hands of Kemalist regime in Turkey for years.

Couple of points:

The current constitution is hardly the constitution of 1980. It's been changed multiple time. So calling it the "coup constitution" as some call it in Turkey is to be a little naive and clueless.

True, but changes are still good.

Removing of an article from the constitution does not in any way mean that it opens those that were responsible of to be tired on court.

I don't care about that particular issue much anyways.

The writer also misses what the left argues for a "No". They don't argue that AKP is an Islamist government and that's the reason they'll say "No" but they argue that AKP is a party who is in conflict with almost all sections of the government and the public and that the purpose of the constitution change is not to improve the constitution but to give more control of the judicial system in Turkey for AKP.

No, Roni did mention that in his earlier writings. But that does not change the fact that, CHP is making the "cheap" propoganda of, "if you vote for yes you vote for sharia"
And he is FOR the breaking of Kemalist tradition in the bureucracy of the country.
Yes, AKP will gain more power...
But this way, the juidical system is not "independant" anyway. It is natural you don't like this as a Kemalist. Because it will be the bureucracy that will be hit.

The two parties that are said to be campaigning for a "Yes" vote are rather tiny minority parties.

Don't worry, boycotting BDP votes will turn into yes.

There have been only one poll suggesting a 60% "Yes" vote. The polls vary from month to month. They almost never give the same results. The latest poll had an almost tie with slightly more than 10% undecided voters.

There is about 10 days left, I won't argue on what the result would be.

Given these mistakes in this article I have to come to the conclusion that this article was a pretty poorly written article giving a false view of how Turkey is.

I said, it sums up the recent situation. It's not written on constitution change.

It's rather a funny and pathetic thing how people defend the constitution change.

very funny indeed...typical darklord response

[Basil II the B.S]

No no no no...you would make a great Kemalist if you were here The same way of thinking.

Lol, ok.

First of all, there is NOTHING in the constitution change regarding anything religious.
Secondly, the "shariatic" nature of AKP is just a propoganda tool of CHP. They had been using the same excuse for years to make rant.Its all BS. It's been 8 years with AKP, no sharia so far. Not even religious laws. Nothing.

I have to be honest, I didn't really check every law made by AKP, therefore I can't even try to disprove you here. Their ideological stance is still quite questionable to me.

In fact, AKP had been the party to westernize the state and chase EU membership most. Not only that, but they have also increased relations with neighbours GREATLY(with Greece and Armenia as well)
It is under their rule, Soumela Monestry was opened for a praying after more than 80 years.
It was AKP which broke the nationalist statements all politicians had been saying.

Okay,yet there are 2 major problems with Armenia and Cyprus, you know the ones, we are still far from a solution with AKP.

also you have a Greek nickname, and your member of the Jewish ancestry group.
Both these nationalities had suffered badly under the hands of Kemalist regime in Turkey for years.

Excessive nationalism had negative effects everywhere, not just Turkey, and not just for the Greeks.
I still give big credit to Ataturk for things like converting Hagia Sophia from a mosque to a musem, priceless.
Also, name a country and jews probably had some problems in some era, it's a waste of time whining for the past, I'd rather focus on the present.

[PointOfViewGun]

True, but changes are still good.

Changes in general are good but the current changes are not.

No, Roni did mention that in his earlier writings. But that does not change the fact that, CHP is making the "cheap" propoganda of, "if you vote for yes you vote for sharia"
And he is FOR the breaking of Kemalist tradition in the bureucracy of the country.
Yes, AKP will gain more power...
But this way, the juidical system is not "independant" anyway. It is natural you don't like this as a Kemalist. Because it will be the bureucracy that will be hit.

Nope, no ones making a propaganda of an anti-sharia. They've never used that argument. They even can't make propaganda as all of the billboards are sold to AKP.

With this change it will be the legislation, executive and judicial independence that will be gone. It ties the judicial system completely to the leading party in the parliament. It's not a Kemalist view to say no to this. It gets pathetic whenever when someone doesn't agree with you called a Kemalist.

Don't worry, boycotting BDP votes will turn into yes.

The failed boycott doesn't have any effect on polls as the public didn't followed BDP from the start.

I said, it sums up the recent situation. It's not written on constitution change.

When it has so many mistakes it's really hard to say that it sums up the recent situation.

very funny indeed...typical darklord response

If only you were in a place to judge that. Fail. Sorry.

[dogukan]

I will skip the childish part

Nope, no ones making a propaganda of an anti-sharia. They've never used that argument. They even can't make propaganda as all of the billboards are sold to AKP.

With this change it will be the legislation, executive and judicial independence that will be gone. It ties the judicial system completely to the leading party in the parliament. It's not a Kemalist view to say no to this. It gets pathetic whenever when someone doesn't agree with you called a Kemalist.

Yes they are making that propoganda. I walk the streets of this country everyday.

Anyways, the arguement about juidical system is that the ruling party will have very strong influence.
I'm not a student, but I read arguements of people who know their stuff. Some say, it won't be that way at all, and put the systems in Europe as examples. But like I said, I do not exactly know how things will be.
EITHER WAY, at least, it will be the party, that was chosen by the majority of the people that will be influent in juidical system, rather than the rotten bureucracy which has been electing among each other for years.

Your arguement should be based on "independancy" of juidical system. Which is important indeed. But is it independant this way?

[PointOfViewGun]

Yes they are making that propoganda. I walk the streets of this country everyday.

Anyways, the arguement about juidical system is that the ruling party will have very strong influence.
I'm not a student, but I read arguements of people who know their stuff. Some say, it won't be that way at all, and put the systems in Europe as examples. But like I said, I do not exactly know how things will be.
EITHER WAY, at least, it will be the party, that was chosen by the majority of the people that will be influent in juidical system, rather than the rotten bureucracy which has been electing among each other for years.

Your arguement should be based on "independancy" of juidical system. Which is important indeed. But is it independant this way?

Nope they're not. I don't care what individual people in the street are using as an argument but if you watched at least a single program on TV where you'd have the chance to listen to CHP officials you would almost never hear the religion argument being used.

You obviously fail miserably on understanding what a judicial system is. Law should not be open to influence yet this constitution change brings members that are chosen by the leading party in the parliament and a lot of the other members of this system will also be chosen by the Minister of Justice which is always a member of the leading party. Just say it out loud. You're opposing the independence of legislation, executive and judicial independence.

This system would also benefit another party if that party became the leading party in the parliament. If I was saying "No" because I was supporting CHP then I would be self contradicting as it would benefit CHP too in case they became the leading party. People who are saying "Yes" are pretty much leashing justice to the leading party in Turkey.

I don't know who you read articles from but pretty much all judges, prosecutors, lawyers and practically any law major points out that the judicial system is being handed to AKP with this change. You can't really argue against that as the technical changes are clerar on this.

Just because the current judicial system is not independent completely doesn't really give anyone right to make it hell of a lot more dependent on some organization. That's was a really poor argument.

It's also rather a poor argument to dismiss anything as childish but then be the first one to revert to personal references.

Wait, AKP has been in power eight years and has not introduced any religious-based laws?

To this point they could not as it would be turned down by the constitution court but with this change they will control those courts and can have it pass.

[Nesimî]

Better than the Western Turkish higher class, who spit on the lower classes yet say they are with the people...

[PointOfViewGun]

Couple of points:

The current constitution is hardly the constitution of 1980. It's been changed multiple time. So calling it the "coup constitution" as some call it in Turkey is to be a little naive and clueless.

Removing of an article from the constitution does not in any way mean that it opens those that were responsible of to be tired on court.

AKP got 38% in the last elections with a 9% decrease in just 2 years.

The writer also misses what the left argues for a "No". They don't argue that AKP is an Islamist government and that's the reason they'll say "No" but they argue that AKP is a party who is in conflict with almost all sections of the government and the public and that the purpose of the constitution change is not to improve the constitution but to give more control of the judicial system in Turkey for AKP.

The two parties that are said to be campaigning for a "Yes" vote are rather tiny minority parties.

There have been only one poll suggesting a 60% "Yes" vote. The polls vary from month to month. They almost never give the same results. The latest poll had an almost tie with slightly more than 10% undecided voters.

Given these mistakes in this article I have to come to the conclusion that this article was a pretty poorly written article giving a false view of how Turkey is.

It's rather a funny and pathetic thing how people defend the constitution change.

[motiv-8]

Wait, AKP has been in power eight years and has not introduced any religious-based laws?

[dogukan]

BOOOOOOOOOOOOM HEADSHOT


Yep, the referandum passed 60%-40%
This was a VERY VERY important turn in Turkish republic's history. Expect some major changes from now on. And for good.