Need Battle Tactic Advice

[Arker]

OOOOOK! I'm play as EC Genoa, on my first no-reload on H/H. I'm having trouble in battles, especially siege attacks, but still in field and siege defense. Could anyone please tell me some tactics so that half of my army doesn't up destroyed before I break the gates?

[Ishan]

It's like a endless topic better find good tutorials over here.
Strategies, Guides, Battle Planning

[RabidSheepLegion]

most people say making 3 "breaches" (destroying walls) forces the AI to the square. However what I like to do is make 1 or 2 rams (depending on wall level) 2 ladders and 4 towers. I bring some art with me, I destroy the castle towers first with art. Send up my ladders first with my most armoured troops so ai is forced to go there.

twwwt

tower wall wall wall tower, I put ladder onto middle wall so when ai is moving to there, my siege towers have just been placed on the two side walls so that way when my best attack troops in towers pop out they can hit flanks of the ai in the middle, battles on walls usually take me no time at all with this strategy. Excellent way to give your ranged units height advantage too. Meanwhile all at this time my ram is bringing down the gate where once opened I force my cav through as hard as possible

[RollingWave]

it be nice if you were a bit more specific... but generally speaking.... on siege assaults...

1. have siege towers go in first just slightly ahead of the rest of your men: siege towers are good for absorbing arrows / bolts / javlins , even if they get burned they'll have taken a lot of the range first that could have otherwise been used to kill your men. especially if they have javlines, just have a cheap / spare unit garb a tower and go strait up against the javlin group, should easily reduce casualty by a ton.

2. have a lot more towers / ladders : as a rule of thumb, if I'm going up against a reasonablly well defended wall with no artilleries, I want to have about as many towers / ladders as I have infantry units, so if you have a half stack (1 general 9 infantry) you want 1 ram, 2-3 towers 5-6 ladders. it's pointless to have more than one unit go up a ladder / siege tower usually, but say... having a group of crossbowman take up a empty section of the wall can often be very very useful. they might be able to shoot at other defenders on the all, or even those hiding behind the gates etc.. Genoa's many armored crossbowmans are especially useful for this job.

3. artilleries, duh : obviously though, the even better idea is to have some artilleries so you can crack down walls without the need to risk your hide. try to bring down 2 sections of the wall and things should be a lot easier.


In field battles, Genoa's roster can be tricky, as they don't have as many knights as other Catholic factions, nor do with have the heavy infantries of the Danes or the light troops of the Muslim factions, your basically stuck with spear + crossbow .

As a whole, it really depend on what you have, but because Genoa tend to have more armored crossbows, one trick is to simply let your crossbow form the center of your line, have them fire at the enemy spearman as they approach and just let them clash with the spearmans, they usually do ok as long as they're not dealing with decent swordsman types. , meanwhile your spearmans are actually on the flanks, ready to envelop the line and/or deal with any cavalries that try to flank.

[Spartan90]

Genoa in general: Their pros are that they have access to the very famous Italian militias that have bothered many French and HRE players worldwide On top of that, they have the best xbowmen in the game - and all of these are able to be trained from cities. Genoa has the potential for one of the game's largest economies. Because of this, Genoa can fund and pump out enormous amounts of militia stacks that are reasonably decent (especially with a few armour upgrades). Genoa is by the far the least castle-reliant faction in the game. More cities = more money = more militia stacks.

Field: Utilize your Geonese Crossbowmen. These are by far your best units, and absolutely shine in the field. Keep in mind that they do not work like regular archers (shoot with an arc), but act more like guns (shoot straight line). So keep them in front of your battleline until the moment before impact, then let them retreat behind your melee units. If possible, get them to shoot into the flanks of the enemy - absolutely devastating.

Siege attack: Use siege weapons (trebuchets, catapults, etc) to destroy as many of the towers as possible. Get your men on the walls ASAP to gain control of their towers. The enemy generally retreats to the streets or city square. Get your xbowmen to pump a few volleys into the congested streets or into the mass of soldiers that almost always congregate in the city square. Use infantry as normal.

Siege defense: Your infamous xbowmen are useless here (crossbows can't shoot from walls). Keep spearmen by the gates, and almost any unit on the walls (defending units on the walls get a bonus). If you pin them up at the gates with spearmen, you can get loads of kills from the burning oil from your gates. Also, cannon towers are by far the best building you can have for siege defense. Man all your walls on the front that the enemy is facing, and say goodbye to all their siege weapons and a good 50% of their men.

[RabidSheepLegion]

Genoa in general: Their pros are that they have access to the very famous Italian militias that have bothered many French and HRE players worldwide On top of that, they have the best xbowmen in the game - and all of these are able to be trained from cities. Genoa has the potential for one of the game's largest economies. Because of this, Genoa can fund and pump out enormous amounts of militia stacks that are reasonably decent (especially with a few armour upgrades). Genoa is by the far the least castle-reliant faction in the game. More cities = more money = more militia stacks.

Field: Utilize your Geonese Crossbowmen. These are by far your best units, and absolutely shine in the field. Keep in mind that they do not work like regular archers (shoot with an arc), but act more like guns (shoot straight line). So keep them in front of your battleline until the moment before impact, then let them retreat behind your melee units. If possible, get them to shoot into the flanks of the enemy - absolutely devastating.

Siege attack: Use siege weapons (trebuchets, catapults, etc) to destroy as many of the towers as possible. Get your men on the walls ASAP to gain control of their towers. The enemy generally retreats to the streets or city square. Get your xbowmen to pump a few volleys into the congested streets or into the mass of soldiers that almost always congregate in the city square. Use infantry as normal.

Siege defense: Your infamous xbowmen are useless here (crossbows can't shoot from walls). Keep spearmen by the gates, and almost any unit on the walls (defending units on the walls get a bonus). If you pin them up at the gates with spearmen, you can get loads of kills from the burning oil from your gates. Also, cannon towers are by far the best building you can have for siege defense. Man all your walls on the front that the enemy is facing, and say goodbye to all their siege weapons and a good 50% of their men.

omg cannon towers are brutes, destroy siege towers and rams in like 1-2 hits, like when they hit ladders too when men are climbing, they just fall to their doom

[RollingWave]

Siege defense: Your infamous xbowmen are useless here (crossbows can't shoot from walls).

it depends on how high the wall is and how far the enemy is , suffice to say that crossbows have a more limited shooting angle then bows thus it is harder for them to shoot from walls, but not impossible. generally aim for the furthest away units and they should still fire.

The other way of doing it of course, is to move them BEHIND the walls. and then wait for enemeis to go up ladders and form a big block on the walls as they engage other troops up there, at this point just shoot them with your x-bows form underneath the wall, (though again, high walls could complicate this problem, it's easier to pull in castle defense where you have more rooms to move around in the settlement.)

[Alavaria]

One thing I noticed is crossbows can shoot over your men if they're a little behind and firing:
a) flat ground, at great range!
b) on a small slope

To exploit (a) it helps to set infantry in wierd angles like V or Ws and have crossbowmen fire at a more distant part of the line. Usually I have the ends fire at the opposite ends and the middle will try to shoot the general (or even near infantry). I've had quite a lot of success with all manner of odd formations designed to get the enemy caught on spearmen, leaving them open to X-bow shooting, but not having gaps large enough to allow horsemen access.

[Yeepeep]

If you don't want to starve them out, you have three options:

- Train spies. Train many, train often. Infiltrate, attack from all sides (all gates are open, even the inner citadel), the enemy will retreat to the center. If you are quick and lucky, your cavalry will be there first

- Wait for the stack to leave the city or for another stack to finish its turn right next to it. Attack the one outside, this will draw the defenders out

- Wait for the stack to leave the city, wait 1 more turn, attack on the next. They won't have time to come back and usually the AI leaves a single garrison unit

If you are patient and keep an eye on the enemy movement, you won't have to fight a single siege

[Ichon]

If you don't want to starve them out, you have three options:

- Train spies. Train many, train often. Infiltrate, attack from all sides (all gates are open, even the inner citadel), the enemy will retreat to the center. If you are quick and lucky, your cavalry will be there first

- Wait for the stack to leave the city or for another stack to finish its turn right next to it. Attack the one outside, this will draw the defenders out

- Wait for the stack to leave the city, wait 1 more turn, attack on the next. They won't have time to come back and usually the AI leaves a single garrison unit

If you are patient and keep an eye on the enemy movement, you won't have to fight a single siege

This is best advice if you are worried about casualties.

Otherwise if forced to a fight a siege either get some mercenaries to force gate and dismiss after battle or do all the other strategies recommended.

[Spartan90]

Cannon fodder is always a fun strategy. Send your crappiest units of peasants, militia and mercs up to contest the walls and take the majority of missile fire. Once the gate is down, get your dismounted knights (aka. EXPENSIVE units) to pour through and hack and slash at anything that stands in their way without any resistance from towers and archers.

[RabidSheepLegion]

Cannon fodder is always a fun strategy. Send your crappiest units of peasants, militia and mercs up to contest the walls and take the majority of missile fire. Once the gate is down, get your dismounted knights (aka. EXPENSIVE units) to pour through and hack and slash at anything that stands in their way without any resistance from towers and archers.

lol love that strategy

"sir, i don't want to die"

"screw you "

[Arker]

So, what are my knights? Foot-men and Broken Lances? Oh, and thank you all for the great advice.

[Gogolometro]

To atack in any siege you must think with any faction like this. You need swordsmans. Any. You can not atack a wall with spears or skirmish units. Most of your unit must be swordsmans, shock troops, some cover, artilery and few cavalry for cover. For success you need to atack walls always in many points if armys are matched. To do so, army must have DKK, man at arms light and heavy, broken lances and mailed dismounted knights.
Particulary like genovese, you got to excellent units, the genovese crossbows and the french way halebard units. Both cheap and damn effective.
How will work. 1,2 units like pavise, spear militia, other cheap units will be the ram guys. they will break gates to make AI to defend gate. With swordmans you will atack wall via siege towers and ladders. Once you get 1 wall on control send genovese xbows to climb there. From that up point can shoot anything. If ai send something to kill your xbows there, dont panic, use xbows in square formation and fire volley after voley. When ammo is exausted can use them like light infantry with apreciative results.
If you broke the gates send spears/halebards to enter there. from points you already control on walls sentd your shok troops/heavy infantry to envelope the ai defence. Right planned and executed this will be the best way to win.
Keep in mind, you need many units of artilery to brake walls, this cost you a lot of stack place, so if is not a great cannon, i not recommend. To capture a castle/city, you must plan well, not only via spys, but look when ai let less defenders there. To win a tactic game, you must think strategical.
To win versus a huge city, citadel, must have a army ratio of 2/1 at leats. Defences, walls, towers will eat a lot your man. So make a good plan before you strike.

[Spartan90]

To win versus a huge city, citadel, must have a army ratio of 2/1 at leats. Defences, walls, towers will eat a lot your man. So make a good plan before you strike.

Firstly, sorry for the double post.

I see where you're coming from Gogolometro, but my personal opinion is if you're going to to siege a settlement that is either highly developed, or heavily defended, always use a spy or two. As soon as those gates are open, you save a good 30% of your men from potential casualties. Instead of fighting at the gates, getting smashed by boiling oil and pummeled by towers, your lads can stroll right in and take the fight into the square.

Because of the huge congestion that always happens in the town square, either tie up the battleline with Spearmen / Pikemen, and let your archers get to work safely behind your men. Even better, divert a few units of xbowmen into the two or so streets that surround the square, and pump some volleys into the unprotected flanks and rear.

No matter what units they are using, all units struggle with the defensive Pikemen. Both sides make extremely slow progress, and you're only using them as a diversion to keep the enemy congested and occupied. It's your archers that are going to get the kills.

[Spartan90]

Yeah, Dismounted Broken Lancers and Dismounted Men-At-Arms if I'm not mistaken. Not 100% sure, I don't use many castle units with Genoa. Also, if you have any Crusader Guilds, they make some pretty rad mounted and dismounted knights.

Genoa's strength doesn't necessarily come in their units' quality, but their quantity. Even though Italian Spear Militia are way better than most militia units that other factions have, they'll still get ripped to pieces against knights. So, bring more. Considering you only need second-level Town Guard to recruit and retrain these, pretty much all your cities can recruit (and retrain) these badasses. Chuck in a Leather Tanner or a Blacksmith, and you've got yourself some pretty decently armoured spearmen. Pump some Crossbow bolts into the flanks and watch the mass rout.

And Genoa is rich enough to sacrafice crappy units / mercs to tangle with the enemy while your more professional, more expensive, more harder to train units waltz wherever they want and carve up the crappies.

[Alavaria]

Ah, a picture of the crossbowmen.

Spoiler for Hello: 

It works because either (1) there's a very (VERY) slight arcing on long range or (2) a small slope. Alternatively small gaps work well enough. Also, if you move your spearmen back a few steps after the enemy is engaged, most of the enemy unit will not move much, and will be standing maybe 5 feet away from your own men (making friendly fire less painful). Of course not every. single. bolt. will go straight into an enemy, but it's more than good enough.

This really REALLY works against crazy units like Papal Guard. They die about as fast as anyone else with 7 shield and light mail >.>.

Even better is if the enemy tries to get horsemen through those small gaps, allowing your spearmen to quickly attack them without having to take a formed charge first ...
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In sieges, I try to have more ladders than the enemy has infantry troops. Barring that, I've had luck attacking on L shaped walls. Drop ladders and have melee troops stand at each end. Have 2 units of X-bows in the middle. Each one clears the infantry unit opposite it. Very effective (better yet if you have your dread general sitting outside the walls to scare the enemy.)

[Spartan90]

Dude, +rep big time. That formation would kick arse. Plus the Italian Spear Militia look like they're nomming

[Gogolometro]

I am imagined you not read the stats of that xbows, whoa re weack on field battles. Second an armored cavalry will cross that line killing anything from exbows to spears behind. Is fantastic to use zig-zag shape but that make you very weak to any archer, more people get hit.

[Navajo Joe]

I agree with all stated about Ladders and Towers, but I also build 3-4 Rams, I take a full stack for a Siege and I attack all the gates if I can. Each Ram unit will have supporting infantry, plus a Cavarly unit, they will attack at different times. The AI will set up initially to cover all the attack points and will spread itself thin.As a gate falls it will move some units to protect the breach, which will open weak points for other gates and ladder/tower units.
Recently I captured Constantinople from a Jihad and sent a Ram with supporting Cavarly/Infantry to the North Wall, which you cannot set up for, so they moved from east wall in that direction. This also had to be done as my allies the Seljuks had no siege gear, so I had to break the gate for them. The Seljuks poured thru the gate, the Roman Empire fell to pieces, vastly superior units they had. I lost 200 men, the Seljuks 400 and accidentally killed the Seljuk Commander with a stray Javelin!!!