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  1. #1
    TW Bigfoot
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    Default Vatican renews ban on gay priests

    Vatican renews ban on gay priests

    he Vatican has published long-awaited guidelines which reaffirm that active homosexuals and "supporters of gay culture" may not become priests.
    But it treats homosexuality as a "tendency", not an orientation, and says those who have overcome it can begin training to take holy orders.
    At least three years must pass between "overcoming [a] transitory problem" and ordination as a deacon, the rules say.

    All Catholic priests take a vow of celibacy, regardless of orientation.
    the guidelines make no reference to current priests, but only to men about to join a seminary.
    They are the outcome of a review ordered by the late Pope John Paul II following highly damaging abuse scandals in the US in which several men accused priests of having abused them as teenagers.
    No link has been established between homosexuality and the abuse of children.

    'Duty to dissuade'
    The Vatican document describes homosexual acts as "grave sins" that cannot be justified under any circumstances.
    It would be gravely dishonest for a candidate to hide his own homosexuality
    Vatican statement

    "If a candidate practises homosexuality, or presents deep-seated homosexual tendencies, his spiritual director as well as his confessor have the duty to dissuade him in conscience from proceeding towards ordination," it says.

    "Such persons in fact find themselves in a situation that presents a grave obstacle to a correct relationship with men and women."

    But the paper also stresses the Church's deep respect for homosexuals, who, it says, should by no means be discriminated against.
    Some Catholic theologians feel the document is not sufficiently clear, the BBC's Peter Gould says.
    That it refers to "tendencies" rather than orientation "has left many people scratching their heads," Jesuit scholar Father Thomas Reese told him.
    The 18-paragraph document was published with little fanfare on Tuesday morning. The Vatican is not offering further explanation.

    Truth
    The chairman of a Roman Catholic evangelical group in Nigeria, Godwin Ukachi, welcomed the publication as overdue.
    "I think it is right for the Church to take a stand on certain issues, especially the issue of homosexuals. Here in Africa and Nigeria... we are not at home with such attitudes," he told the BBC's World Today programme.

    "Something had to be done. I think they think that the Church is taking a step in the right direction."

    Critics have long objected that gay seminarians might feel they have no choice but to lie about their sexual orientation.
    The guidelines specifically address this issue, urging candidates for the priesthood to tell the truth.

    "It would be gravely dishonest for a candidate to hide his own homosexuality," the document says.

    Observers say the new rules might lead to a dramatic drop in the number of priests, especially in the West.
    The guidelines, "Instruction Concerning The Criteria of Vocational Discernment Regarding Persons With Homosexual Tendencies In View Of Their Admission To Seminaries And Holy Orders", were drafted by the Vatican's Congregation for Catholic Education and approved by Pope Benedict on 31 August.
    Canon law experts note that they were not issued in forma specifica, meaning the Pope has not officially invested it with his personal authority, according to the National Catholic Reporter.
    That might mean there is room for further interpretation or revision.

    Homosexuals had already been barred from priesthood in a 1961 document.
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  2. #2

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    Yeah, so?
    As the leaders of a religion in the free world, they can ban anyone they want from becoming part of it.





  3. #3
    TW Bigfoot
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    Quote Originally Posted by RusskiSoldat
    Yeah, so?
    As the leaders of a religion in the free world, they can ban anyone they want from becoming part of it.

    i posted the artcile.....nothing more...

    yet you replyed as if i were making a point.
    i have made no argument yet.
    i just posted the artcile.

    was that a "pre-emptive" strike?

    i dont understand...

  4. #4
    the_mango55's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    All Catholic priests take a vow of celibacy, regardless of orientation.
    Homosexuality as an orientation is not a sin. It is not a sin to be attracted to your own sex. It is a sin to follow through on those temptations, and commit homosexual acts. I don't see how this is controversial at all. Catholics don't allow their preists to have sex with ANYONE, why is it weird that they are not allowing them to have sex with men specifically. It might be a little strange that they feel they have to point it out though.
    ttt
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  5. #5

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    We wouldn't hear all these stories about altar boys being raped if they'd just let their priests marry. How would you feel cooped up in a church for thirty years with no sexual outlet? There's no justification in the Bible for priests remaining celibate.

    They'd probably have more priests if priests could marry. But anyway, to the topic at hand:

    So what? Why should they allow gay priests?

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  6. #6

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    [QUOTE=the_mango55] It is a sin to follow through on those temptations, and commit homosexual acts. I don't see how this is controversial at all. QUOTE]

    Why its a sin to commit homosexual acts ? We are in the free world, so everybody can practise sex as he/she wants, except criminal ones as child sex, rape etc...

    repman

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    the_mango55's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Quote Originally Posted by repman
    Why its a sin to commit homosexual acts ? We are in the free world, so everybody can practise sex as he/she wants, except criminal ones as child sex, rape etc...

    repman
    uhhh, it's a sin in the Christian sense, because it is in the Bible. Leviticus 18:22 (KJV): "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind, it is abomination." It is the same way with adultery. It is not against the law in modern society to cheat on your spouse, but it is still a sin.

    But I don't want to change this into a discussion about sin vs. laws.
    ttt
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  8. #8

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    I stated my views for any furhter political debate that may take place here.
    This is to be expected in a forum called "The Political Mudpit" in case you didn't know.





  9. #9

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    Holy ****. The Vatican is becoming liberal, and this under a hardliner!

  10. #10

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    "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind, it is abomination."
    uhh.....why? Could this "God" guy give a little explanation of his views?

  11. #11
    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    The Vatican is 100% right. Becoming a priest is not a right. And religion not a democratic thing. It's their church (the Pope is the head of Catholics), they'll do everything they wish with it.

  12. #12

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    Yes hail to the last medieval dictator in Europe, its a shame for us. I live in Bavaria, Germany, and the pope has still influence in this catholic part. But its decreasing, so there is hope.

    repman

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  13. #13
    Prince Kassad
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    Quote Originally Posted by repman
    Yes hail to the last medieval dictator in Europe, its a shame for us. I live in Bavaria, Germany, and the pope has still influence in this catholic part. But its decreasing, so there is hope.

    repman
    No one is forcing you to be Catholic dude. If he was really a "medieval dictator", you would be burned at the stake for saying that.

  14. #14
    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    You can choose not to be a catholic. There is no dictatorship, only people talking what is not their concern.

  15. #15

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    Ummon is right. As long as people are not forced into being catholics the Roman Church should be free to enforce any rule they wish

  16. #16

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    The pope is a dictator inside a nondemocratic medieval organization, ruled by old man, ignoring women,......under the rule of infallibility. This ban on gay priests is just ridiculous, even for the most catholics here.

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  17. #17

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    Repman, mind the tongue. Continue in a more appropriate manner, or I'll warn you for trolling.

  18. #18
    Prince Kassad
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    Quote Originally Posted by repman
    The pope is a dictator inside a nondemocratic medieval organization, ruled by old man, ignoring women,......under the rule of infallibility. This ban on gay priests is just ridiculous, even for the most catholics here.
    No, its not. For extremely, blindingly obvious reasons...

    1) Priests are supposed to be celibates, so a gay can get in just like a straight: if you never show sexual appetite, no one can tell your orientation!

    2) I don't know why, but gays tend to be much more sexually active (just look at how AIDs affects them so much more), so they are more likely to fall to temptation than normal guys.

    And what's this nonsense about "ignoring women", anyway? Just because priesthood is reserved for guys, doesn't mean that women are "ignored".

    Modern society is pretty hypocritical, even by historical standards. Women's organizations are acceptable and "liberated". Men's organizations are "chauvinist" and "sexist".

  19. #19
    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by repman
    The pope is a dictator inside a nondemocratic medieval organization, ruled by old man, ignoring women,......under the rule of infallibility. This ban on gay priests is just ridiculous, even for the most catholics here.
    Easy, do not join their organization: if you are sure they are wrong, they cannot be God's church. Thus God won't surely hold this against you.

    That's the beauty of freedom. Choose you path. Yet, if it is the wrong one, you will be the only one held accountable.

    Quote Originally Posted by the_mango55
    If there is one thing that the young EU does not want to do, it's go head to head against the Catholic Church. Unless the Church started advocating the massacre of Jews and Muslims again, I doubt the EU will do anthing more than "express dissapointment"
    The EU does not protest even if someone actually asks to kill Jews and Christians, thus the problem doesn't really exist, I guess.
    Last edited by Ummon; November 30, 2005 at 11:33 AM.

  20. #20
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    He does have a point, however...

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