Albert On war and soilders.

[bigfootedfred]

"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance, how violently I hate all this, how despiceable an ignoreable war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder."

-- Albert Einstein

i agree totally.

feel free to disagree/agree....

[the_mango55]

Disagree. Although war is usually not a good thing, it is occasionally needed. And war needs soldiers, people who will stand up for their nation, and who may have different convictions than Al here.

Einstein was a marvelous physicist, but not so hot at philosophy

[RusskiSoldat]

Disagree.
One thing people need to know: just because a genius (whether political, military or physicist) said something, it doesn't automatically make it rue

[Ecclesiastes]

I disagree. I think it is honorable when one gives his life for his ideals (freedom). However what Einstein says i've been thinking a lot laitly. I planned to go into the military however I am against war. And it would be foolish to attribute to one. The only good war is when you are defending. Then I am willing to fight.

[bigfootedfred]

I disagree. I think it is honorable when one gives his life for his ideals (freedom). However what Einstein says i've been thinking a lot laitly. I planned to go into the military however I am against war. And it would be foolish to attribute to one. The only good war is when you are defending. Then I am willing to fight.

well his language would be that of an offensive war, where you go and kill in the name of "war"
when you are defending you have war thrust apon you, and you have little choice.

i too would fight in a defensive war.

[Ecclesiastes]

well his language would be that of an offensive war, where you go and kill in the name of "war"
when you are defending you have war thrust apon you, and you have little choice.

i too would fight in a defensive war.

I am glad you will. I find a man who is reluctant to fight in any war a coward and/or a fool.

[the_mango55]

It looks to me like he was talking about all soldiers. And to fight a defensive war you are going to need trained, organized soldiers, or it won't be much of a war at all. It seems to me that Albert doesn't like anyone involved in the military, as a soldier that is suited to defend his country could be equally suited to attack.

[bigfootedfred]

It looks to me like he was talking about all soldiers. And to fight a defensive war you are going to need trained, organized soldiers, or it won't be much of a war at all. It seems to me that Albert doesn't like anyone involved in the military, as a soldier that is suited to defend his country could be equally suited to attack.

well we can speculate to its meaning, but thats all we can really do.
but true, a defensive army can always be used in non-defensive ways.

but war, which he is talking about. has someone who attacks, and someone who defends, theres always someone who starts it.
and i believe thats what he dosent like, and i agree with it.
i would never march into a another country to conuqer it.
when your defending, you dont have much choice in the matter, you can fight or submit. and i would not submit.

[Ecclesiastes]

well we can speculate to its meaning, but thats all we can really do.
but true, a defensive army can always be used in non-defensive ways.

but war, which he is talking about. has someone who attacks, and someone who defends, theres always someone who starts it.
and i believe thats what he dosent like, and i agree with it.
i would never march into a another country to conuqer it.
when your defending, you dont have much choice in the matter, you can fight or submit. and i would not submit.

Made me thinking. Well what if there was a huge possibility your country would be attacked by a neighbouring country. Your country attacking first would save a lot of your countrymens(sp?) life. Would you fight if such an event occured.

[bigfootedfred]

Made me thinking. Well what if there was a huge possibility your country would be attacked by a neighbouring country. Your country attacking first would save a lot of your countrymens(sp?) life. Would you fight if such an event occured.

no.

war should be the last of all options.

imagine if striking first, included a nuke?
cold war wouldnt have lasted very long.

defensive only, pre-emptive strikes are wrong too imo, this other nation, when attacking mione, would be doing a pre-emptive stike much the same no? that was alberts point i believe.

so no.
even if we lost, at least we would stayed true to our vaules.

[PacSubCom]

Made me thinking. Well what if there was a huge possibility your country would be attacked by a neighbouring country. Your country attacking first would save a lot of your countrymens(sp?) life. Would you fight if such an event occured.

You shouldn't, as this is the excuse that is always given, Hitler included.

[Ecclesiastes]

You shouldn't, as this is the excuse that is always given, Hitler included.

Hitler had many reasons to validate his attack on several countries. I know many of them but not the one you said. Wasn't America's involvement in WW2 some sort of an attack to prevent being attacked later... though this was validated by many

[Rapax]

Well, people seem to forget that Albert Einstein saw militarism gain strength in germany and that's why he left to the USA. If you look at how germany developed under the Nazis and how it eventually turned out, his statement rings very true.

[Masquerade]

It's a very beautiful and wise quote.

[saulot333]

Agree with Albert here. Let's remember a little Clausewitz here "The defender starts the war". If you approve defensive war you are approving war, it's that simple. There is no real courage in obeying orders and getting killed in war.

[bigfootedfred]

Agree with Albert here. Let's remember a little Clausewitz here "The defender starts the war". If you approve defensive war you are approving war, it's that simple. There is no real courage in obeying orders and getting killed in war.

yeah. but in the event of being attacked, you can either a: submit or b:fight
i would not join the army for purpose of one day fighting a defensive war.
i would join if it came to it.

[Ecclesiastes]

Agree with Albert here. Let's remember a little Clausewitz here "The defender starts the war". If you approve defensive war you are approving war, it's that simple. There is no real courage in obeying orders and getting killed in war.

I totally disagree with this. A defensive war is just in my eyes because you are not the one attacking. You can't help it if another country attacks you without reason.

The highlighted I find offensive especially for all those people who died so you can have freedom today. It is the reason your able to post on TWC. There is courage in fighting a war... do it and you will see.

[saulot333]

I totally disagree with this. A defensive war is just in my eyes because you are not the one attacking. You can't help it if another country attacks you without reason.

The highlighted I find offensive especially for all those people who died so you can have freedom today. It is the reason your able to post on TWC. There is courage in fighting a war... do it and you will see.

Is there courage in storming the enemy positions under heavy fire? Yes.
Is there courage in getting killed for the sake of your platoon? Yes.
Is there courage in fighting a war for the interest of the political elite of your country? Yes, a particular kind, the blind one. I'm feeling sorry for all the poor soldiers, they are not guilty of anything and they should NOT be blamed for any reason. I do hope they are enjoying whatever kind of afterlife reward they believed in. I just hope I would cry for other dead soldiers no more, but that doesn't seem the case.

[saulot333]

You are right about the options. You can fight and Einstein could even agree with your decision. You just must not join the army. There are plenty of ways to fight without "joyfully marching to music in rank and file"

[Ummon]

If you eliminate war, you eliminate peace. Einstein was a great man and a great physicist, but on political issues he was no authority. You cannot stop war by not fighting it. There will be always someone fighting it in your place.