Can Jihads fail?

**Mangalore** · August 28, 2010, 01:11 PM

As I'm playing Byzantines this kinda interests me though I guess the same question would be if Crusades might fail at some point. Reason is that some Muslims declared Jihad for Constantinople and I must have slaughtered well over half a dozen Jihad armies and am about to fill the dozens as a new wave of those.

While they - together with multi front wars - make it a nise Stainless Steel introduction campaign I must say these battles get really boring as the actual challenge is throwing together a sufficient army and organize the reinforcements while beating back the Sicilians and organize offensives against Seljuks and Hungarians. The battles themselves however play out mostly the same. My archer heavy army is some semblance of a box formation, the enemy charges me allout, my infantry mainly consisting of cheap spear militia gets mauled, my archers decimate the enemy and a welltimed cavalry charge causes a mass rout. Kihad defeated, units reshuffled for optimal reeinforcement, rinse repeat.

It's just that the frequency of it while still being stuck in the early campaign slows down everything and it starts feeling like work. It also seems like the Muslim faction are more concerned about this Jihad than caring for their home territories, e.g. the Seljuks have terrible garrison protection of their Turkish cities which is kinda laughable.

Anyhow, will the whole game go this way or can I shut them up?

**PerXX** · August 28, 2010, 01:17 PM

When a Jihad/Crusade is called, factions have 9 turns to join. As many generals as they want (that has atleast 8 units in the stack) can join in this timeperiod. After the 9 turn limit no more generals can join. The Jihad/Crusade then ends when either the target is taken, or all generals that joined have been defeated. So yes, there's a light at the end of the tunnel

Well, atleast untill next Jihad!

**RabidSheepLegion** · August 28, 2010, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by PerXX

When a Jihad/Crusade is called, factions have 9 turns to join. As many generals as they want (that has atleast 8 units in the stack) can join in this timeperiod. After the 9 turn limit no more generals can join. The Jihad/Crusade then ends when either the target is taken, or all generals that joined have been defeated. So yes, there's a light at the end of the tunnel

Well, atleast untill next Jihad!

"Zulus. Thousands of 'em."

In this case, Muslims

**Mangalore** · August 28, 2010, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by PerXX

When a Jihad/Crusade is called, factions have 9 turns to join. As many generals as they want (that has atleast 8 units in the stack) can join in this timeperiod. After the 9 turn limit no more generals can join. The Jihad/Crusade then ends when either the target is taken, or all generals that joined have been defeated. So yes, there's a light at the end of the tunnel

Well, atleast untill next Jihad!

Well, that would be a relief. I guess the Fatimids and Seljuks might have already run out of jihadists as their attacks against my border territories increase (before that they seemingly dumped all their offensive stuff into the jihad armies and those showed up every other turn). The damn Moors and Kwarzhims still need a good thrashing though.

"Zulus. Thousands of 'em." In this case, Muslims

Yeah, the Bosporus should be called the Red Sea now given how many armies I killed on its shores.

Check "I Am Skantarios!"

Eh, what?

**Medkirtys** · August 28, 2010, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Mangalore

Well, that would be a relief. I guess the Fatimids and Seljuks might have already run out of jihadists as their attacks against my border territories increase (before that they seemingly dumped all their offensive stuff into the jihad armies and those showed up every other turn). The damn Moors and Kwarzhims still need a good thrashing though.

Yeah, the Bosporus should be called the Red Sea now given how many armies I killed on its shores.

Eh, what?

It shows, how jihads fail. Few jihads. Oh yeah, it's an AAR

**RabidSheepLegion** · August 29, 2010, 01:13 AM

Originally Posted by Medkirtys

It shows, how jihads fail. Few jihads. Oh yeah, it's an AAR

looked at your sig lol

**Alavaria** · August 29, 2010, 03:43 AM

Originally Posted by PerXX

The Jihad/Crusade then ends when either the target is taken, or all generals that joined have been defeated. So yes, there's a light at the end of the tunnel

Well, atleast untill next Jihad!

Oh great. There's a full stack near Milan (it's stuck in the narrow pass because of a fort) on Crusade to my Rome. And Hungary has another half stack near Vienna also on crusade.

I'm gonna have to wait for all of the generals to die of old age. Even then, I suppose the pope will wait the minimum 10 turns and then call another crusade on me (the current one is in a boat off the coast near Syracuse).

**Medkirtys** · August 28, 2010, 01:45 PM

Check "I Am Skantarios!"

**Forever Knight** · August 29, 2010, 03:06 AM

just assassinate the generals in the jihad army....that way the entire army slowly disbands and you dont have to fight them at all

**RabidSheepLegion** · August 29, 2010, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Forever Knight

just assassinate the generals in the jihad army....that way the entire army slowly disbands and you dont have to fight them at all

That is a great way too, altho I think the missions for all agents are harder in SS than vanilla?

**Wrain** · August 29, 2010, 02:14 PM

I'm playing as Turks and on the Jihad mission scroll there isn't any turn counter.

And it was called on Toledo... i don't want to join but at the same i don't want that last forever

Gogo Moors !

**Paladin94610** · August 29, 2010, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by Wrain

I'm playing as Turks and on the Jihad mission scroll there isn't any turn counter.

And it was called on Toledo... i don't want to join but at the same i don't want that last forever

Gogo Moors !

If the Jihad is called on Turn A, you will get the turn counter on Turn B. If you haven't join jihad on Turn J, then the Join the Jihad mission fails, the mission target info still appears on the mission scroll but you can't take care of it. After all jihad armies are destroyed or captured the target city, then the Jihad Successfull notification pops up and the target info on Mission scroll disappear.
In SS, it seems that AI can join so much armies for the crusades or jihads which are very unrealistic. Most jihads and crusades failed because of the internal crisis of between each crusaders and jihadists.

And the crusaded or jihaded faction is just ass-kicked and a double jihad or crusade marks an AI empire's downfall. Just consider, a excommunicated faction will be called crusade, and the rest of the catholic factions will join crusade? Maybe 5-6 Christian factions can join crusades with no problems, (France, Danmark, Norway, Hungary, Poland, Genoa and Aragon, considering one of them excom. then 6 factions will join crusades.) AI won't let his city fall, so he will defend it at all cost, which deplete his army so fast, for the human players it is worst!! It is better to have jihads and crusades more failure.

**Alavaria** · August 29, 2010, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by Iberia Auxilia

Maybe 5-6 Christian factions can join crusades with no problems, (France, Danmark, Norway, Hungary, Poland, Genoa and Aragon, considering one of them excom. then 6 factions will join crusades.) AI won't let his city fall, so he will defend it at all cost, which deplete his army so fast, for the human players it is worst!! It is better to have jihads and crusades more failure.

Seems to be that I either got unlucky, it was the Gracul AI, or it's just AI hating, but a ton of Catholics (france & england were excommunicated at the time) joined the crusade against me. (France later on sieged a fort to declare war, at Perfect relations no less) so I'm at war with every catholic faction except England, Portugal, Poland and Norway. I don't think the Muslim factions have called a Jihad anywhere yet, so any moment now they'll try and drop one on me (if only, hehe).

For the player, it's not so bad, if you can get creative with forts and blocking the way to the crusade target. However, the crusade units (like the dismounted knights and sergeants) are VERY powerful, which is annoying since I feel that the AI is purposely trying to get as many units of those, to kill me early on. Only that they're stuck due to forts and pathfinding, so they never bring those armies over to me.

Spoiler for Crusades!:

You know, I really should've just reloaded. The pope called a crusade between turns 21 and 22, and at Turn 54 it is still ongoing. However, I reloaded at the end of Turn 21 (wanted to see the cutscene of him calling a crusade against Rome) and lo and behold, he died of old age >.> It would've helped to not be at war with (nearly) all the Catholics and the Byzantines.

"The holy Bible may preach peace, but when it is christendom itself that is threatened, it is every christian's duty to defend all that is holy. His holiness the pope has called a crusade to reclaim the holy lands from the infidel, who would deny christian pilgrims their right to visit the holy places. It is time for the armies of christendom to put aside their differences and unite under one banner, the sign of the cross, and give back god's children what is rightfully theirs or die trying."

Wait, really?

I crushed all of one crusading army. (And one solo noble who had a crusade flag on). Other than those two, there's the Genoan stack near Milan and Hungary near Vienna, but they aren't moving or anything. (Genoese blocked by fort, the Hungarians by the HRE's castle). I know all the others had at least one crusading army, but the general might have died, disbanding the force. Not sure how these work >.> The AI is very bad at its attempt to gather all of Europe together to whack me.