Crusade takes detour

[vinnie3]

Well, I'm playing a ERE campaign and suddenly the pope sends a cruscader army to take the holy lands. A few turns after this 'event' I get: The crusaders take a detour around the Balkan and seem to head to Constantinople.
A few turns later I get another event telling me they want to capture Constantinople.

I reinforced my city, full army with another army standing next to Constantinople, but I don't see any crusader army nearby, until 2 rebel army's appear close to Constantinople (full armies).

I wonder, are these Rebels the Crusaders the Pope has sent? Because on a previous Crusade it was a Latin (KOJ) army that passed my lands.

Here are the images of the rebel army:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

And I wonder; At the last picture you see the 'Rebel Faction Leader'. Don't know if this is known (the Do not translate part)..

[nhinhonhinho]

It's strange. The crusaders should be belong to KOJ. In my campaign they past through my land too. Is KOJ still exits ? If they hase been destroyed so the crusaders army will become rebel

[Automatix]

historicaly one of the crusader army has attacked Constantinopol,because they were debt and so they did that as compensation for Venetians

[AnthoniusII]

The crusaders belonged to KoJ only when they landed there and only if their comanders agreed to become vassals to King of Jerusaleem.
Now the 4th Crusade.
What you may did not know.
Officially Venice was part of the Roman Empire (Byzantine).
Each Venetian Doge had to have the Emperor's aproval to become Doge.
Afcourse this was just for the ceremonies but still officially Venice was "vassal" of Constantinople.
Venice was indipendand De Facto from late 9th century when Venetians lent their fleet to the Romans in the 9th-10th centuries Italian wars.
Erico Dandolo was 92 years old when the fleet with the 4th crusade crusaders left the Italian shores.
Before that he spoke to the city's counsil and said that it was offensive for him that he needed the Emperor's aproval to become a Doge and the empire should be destroyed to open wide the sea routes for Venice.
Zara in 1202 was the 1st victim of those crusaders.
Crusaders landed in Constantinople in 1203 but after a year when the Emperor they suported could not pay them they attacked and plunder Constantinople.
Modern american historians estimate that the value of the gold,silver ,gems ,artifacts etc that were stolen had about 2 trilion US dolars in 1990 price.
Europe financed its development with that crime.
Muslims ahd NEVER done such an act in more than 4 centuries war with Romans or any other cristian state!
Pope John Paul a year before his death visited Athens and asked forgiveness on behalf of theso men 8 centuries ago.
But the fact remains. Europe's growth based on plunders and spoils ...
Crusaders did not even respected cristians churches ,priests etc...

[wudang_clown]

That is right. The Fourth Crusade sacked Constantinople without even heading to Jerusalem.

Those two armies have nothing to do with KoJ. If it comes to their Middle Eastern look - for now we can do nothing about it, rebel armies spawned via campaign script can only use one model; we are trying to solve this.

[bubbathegump]

This happened i my Kypchak campaign, the crusaders took constantinople, cripling the ERE

[Byz pope]

They've always appeared as rebels on my campaign, i've always kinda wanted to let them take Constantinople and try to get it back. But i just cant. lol. Ah just thinking of the fourth crusade makes me angry.

[vinnie3]

Ah, thanks for the heads up .
Well, they were standing in front of Constantinople and I've defeated the 1st Crusader army, but now the second one is moving on to take Constantinople, should be able to defeat them as well .

[Iguanaonastick]

Yep, they are rebels but they are still scripted to attack Constantinople.

The disadvantage of them being rebels is that sometimes you can fight the stacks one by one, which makes things a lot easier. So in my ERE games I tried not to. It makes for an exciting battle, especially if you do not put all your armies around Constantinople. I ended up hiring every mercenary I could find including lots of Turkoman horse-archers, combined with the Imperial Guard units and the western tagmata, lending the whole thing a suitably desperate last-ditch feel.

There's also a great illustrated AAR on the fourth crusade in the AAR sub-forum. Fun reading.


As for the reasons for the 4th crusade, I believe they were more complicated than a struggle over the Venetian doge-ship. There had been many conflicts with various Italian "Latin" merchants. Manuel Comnenos had expelled the Venetians, there had been a massacre a few decades earlier... plenty of bad blood on all sides. I also doubt that one sack really brought -that- much wealth to the west. It was far more significant that the Empire had allowed the Italians to take over their trade over the years. That said, the crusaders were certainly forsaking their "holy" mission in favour of becoming de-facto paid Venetian goons.

[The Noble Lord]

If it was first, second and third Crusade they should not touch Constantinople. In my games they just pass me by, sometimes ignoring me and sometimes standing there for few turns and then disappearing into Anatolia.