Recommended Reading

[Caesar Augustus]

Hey everyone,

I figured this thread should stimulate some activity here, I figure it's been far too quiet in these parts for the past couple of days.

I'd like to learn a bit more about the history of our period and the situation in the world during our time time frame. To that end, I was hoping that someone could suggest a few books that are reasonably priced (the dread pirate CA be a bit tight for cash until he locates his buried treasure), and at the same time informative enough for me to know about all the important events and battles so that I actually know what everyone's talking about during the historical debates that occassionally take place.

Thanks!

[Carados]

It has been quiet, hasn't it =\

I usually spend hours reading wikipedia and then piecing together what information everyone else has. The problem with history is that there is a lot of interpretation, and a major source of this interpretation - archaeological evidence - isn't so easily accessible. Therefore, a lot of information comes through word of mouth (or the forums...). If you read the forums about certain topics you'll find some historians chip in and these have typically seen a fair number of these artefacts first hand. This is one of my favourite threads.

There are many online versions of ancient texts that you can read. These are useful to go through, but you have to be aware of bias and stuff. In the works of Tacticus, it is very unlikely that the speeches actually did happen (or rather, exactly as he puts them). This analyses his work in trying to identify the location of Mons Graupius, and the events leading up to it.

[Daqin]

My expertise lies more in the East than the West, so I can't help you too much. If you haven't read Caesar's accounts of the Gallic and Civil Wars, I'd recommend those; I have Penguin edition copies, they're cheap. I haven't looked, but you can probably find them online as well. And of course there are the historians like Tacitus, Pliny, Livy, Plutarch, etc. Cicero has extensive writings as well, although I wouldn't read his Catilinian Orations unless you really need something to help you sleep.

Bias comes with the territory with any ancient text. This is especially true of speeches, and the aforementioned orations are a perfect example: Cicero did indeed make them to the Senate, but then he recorded idealized versions of them after the fact, and the written record is what's handed down to posterity. There's also extra bias (and probably some outright lies) in autobiographical works such as Caesar's, so you have to take what he says with a grain of salt. Another factor in whether or not writings survive at all is how well accepted they were at the time; things that go against generally accepted views/beliefs of the state will generally not make it, even if they happen to be true. But still, its what we have, so take it for what its worth, though it is usually a good idea to follow up with more contemporary studies and analysis to help sort out what's likely to be true and what isn't.

Anyway, good luck with your research, I'm sure others here can give you more specifics about what's worth reading and what isn't. And like Carados said, there's a lot available for free on the web, so look there first before hitting up bookstores.

[Mogan]

You should really read the Anabasis of Xenophon. While it isn't in our timeframe, it gives a good point of view on the Asiatic warfare, technology (Xenophon stated that only Rhodian slingers could outgun the Kurdish slingers and archers) as well as giving a great perspective on the importance of morale when fighting.

[Caesar Augustus]

Cheers for all the tips guys, keep them coming

Consider this a "Let's educate CA thread"

[Sardaukar One]

Here is a list of my books on the Diadochi period.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=286295


I got maybe six times that number on other eras. Greece, Rome, Samurai, WW II etc.
A lot of them are the Osprey series. The ones where they describe the battles etc.
Philippi is probaly the best one I have from Osprey as far as the battles go. After I read that, I have to give some real props to Mark Anthony. While not Caesar, its hard to see Caesar doing better than Anthony at Philippi. It makes Anthony's performance at Actium a real head scratcher though.

[Caesar Augustus]

That's a great list S1. I guess in British pounds I'd be looking to roughly half the prices?

[Wien1938]

If you can find it, Armies of the Macedonian and Punic Wars is one of the best books you can find on this period. It also gives a great deal of references to the primary sources as well as the academic works.

[Caesar Augustus]

Cheers matry any idea on price?

[JaNuZ99]

ah while not really specifically intent on our time period i do have a series of books that i found to be really great, the Loeb Classical Library

In fact the second volume in the series written by C. Velleius Paterculus deals with roman history in a broad way but also gives quite a bit of detail regarding the whole Marius VS Sulla affair, very interesting read IMO.

Now today this is published by Harvard University Press, i'm not to sure if its also printed overseas, but i'm quite sure a simple google search would answer that question.

[Irenaeus]

I'm told that Josephus' Jewish Antiquities is worth a read, it contains the history of the Jewish people up to the AD65 revolt. Since the Ptolemaics and Seleucids fought over the land for a hundred years or so, it'd be useful for background knowledge for their involvement around the Levant. Plus it's relatively cheap (but seriously big! That might put you off). The same can be said for Livy's The Rise of the Roman Empire.

As with all these sources though, note that the author is not entirely subjective!

[Caligula Caesar]

Adrian Goldsworthy's books are meant to be good. I'm currently reading "The Fall of Carthage" (I haven't read any of the others yet) and it makes sense of the many sources of the Punic Wars, giving a detailed account whilst saying what accounts are a bit implausible etc. It isn't too complicated to read.

I've also read J.E. Lendon's "Soldiers and Ghosts". It is, from what I know, a bit unconventional in its interpretations on why the Greeks and Romans fought they way they did, looking at it from a different angle, but makes many good points.

[Caesar Augustus]

I've got an Adrian Goldsworthy already - In The Name of Rome. I like his style, he writes in a very accessible manner

[HLandin]

Caesar Augustus, I love reading Adrian Goldsworthy. His book In the Name of Rome, especially for the republican period, is hands down in my opinion the best biography of important commanders from the mid-Republic onward. His book Roman Warfare was the first book I read on the roman military (and is still my bible on the roman military in general). Very interesting and engaging historian. His major limitation (and these are all my OPINIONS) is that he tends to be very knowledgeable about the military aspects of the romans and only BRIEFLY covers politically/social topics when they relate to the military; however, these social/political aspects can have important and vital military implications. When it comes these aspects, I would recommend other authors.

I would recommend Michael Sage's The Republican Roman Army: A Sourcebook for those interested in the republican period. It's the most recent book I read on the Roman military. Provides a VERY detailed analysis of the republican military (my favorite time period) and unlike Goldsworthy (see above) provides a thorough analysis of the those social and political events and their implications.

Greek and Roman Warfare by John Drogo Montagu might provide that very general overview of the time period you mentioned you were searching for. It's divided into two parts: the first deals with components of greek and roman warfare (such as the sometimes extensive and impressive preparations made by the ancient forces for battle even before the actual deployment for battle such as trickery, ambush, etc.) while the second part gives specific examples of those concepts detailed in the first part in the major battles of the ancient world (including Mantinea, Chaeronea, Ipsus, Metaurus, etc.). This is a general work; for more specific analysis of the battles or characters, consult other works.

Ian Worthington's Alexander the Great: Man and God provides a more critical analysis than most authors of Alexander the Great. It also provided me with a good primer on the events that unfolded in Macedonia prior to Alexander that created the environment that allowed him to achieve his conquests, and makes a convincing argument that Philip was instrumental in creating the powerhouse of Macedonia that Alexander inherits on Philips' death.

My advice (opinion) is read as much as you can by whomever you can. Like Sardaukar One posted elsewhere, its hard to have an opinion about something if you have not read it. Primary sources are always good because the belief that they are the closest to the actual event and in theory the least likely to be tainted by hindsight. With that in mind, sometimes hindsight may provide a new insight into the motivation or causes of events - these things can to be obscured if they are recorded too close to the events themselves (making spectulations before all the data is available). As stated elsewhere, primary sources may have gaps or inconsistencies in them; secondary sources can sometimes fill these gaps, provide missing information, or rectify contradictions between other sources. Hence, secondary sources also have their purpose. Finally, modern works provide a fresh and maybe new perspective by incorporating archeological evidence that would have been unavailable to ancient authors. Arriving back at my premise, read as much as you can and sort out what you can. This may sound like rambling, but hope all this helps.

[Caesar Augustus]

Thank you very much H! that's a fantastic help. Have some rep

I'll be looking at picking up some more Adrian Goldsworthy then, as well as the other authors you mentioned. I guess I just want to be able to join in the debates that happen a bit more, rather than stand by in awe. This is the period that most interests me in history, so I would love to know some more about it

[Sardaukar One]

Like Sardaukar One posted elsewhere, its hard to have an opinion about something if you have not read it.

I said that? Sounds a little too enlightened for me. But I am good at stating the obvious!

I don't have any books by Adrian Goldsworthy.
I want to say a couple people said good things about his books on the Diadochi board too. And you guys rave about him.
I might have to take a look. Any suggestions for a first try?

I have to recommend "The Mercenaries of the Hellenistic World" by G.T.Griffith.
Its very informative and the author goes out of his way to show how the mercs fit into the armies of the various kingdoms. Griffith does an especially good job on the Seleucid and Ptolemaic militaries. Included is a break down of each factions military and why and where they needed mercs. Also highlighted is why the Seleucid colonization policy was a success and why the Ptolemaic one was a failure.
Various troop types are discussed and the use of mercs by other factions is also included. I have the paperback version and I think its still about $30.
Its an absolute steal at this price.

I would recommend this to anyone, but I think it could be of extra value to any modders out there.