About the Fyrd

[danova]

Ceorlwerod - *(Fyrd: only for saxons)
Infantry - Light/Heavy - Sword+Shields

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Ceorlwerod were the true middle class, landowners with a sizeable farm and connected family which supported slaves and lowerclasses working the fields around them, often lotted and hired out to thralls. The Churls were men of varying power and wealth yet all had good means to equip themselves for war, who could for example transport themselves to the levy gatherings by horse or even fight as light horsemen if required. They were dutybound to their local leaders, the Thegns, as well as bound by honour to protect their homes. They were no strangers to military service even if it was not their chosen way of life.
Ceorlwerod have armour and swords, and it is dangerous to the other infantrys.

We thinking on about the Fyrd

What kind of mechanism would be better for the Fyrd?


Call the Fyrd with mercenary mechanism...
limited to the saxons, cheap to hire, upkeep is multiplied by about 50%

Call the fyrd by garrison script with yes/no option...
units are free, but upkeep is high, the fyrd units will be disbanded after a while

Something else, read my comment...

... or any oppinion or idea.



Fyrd unit (only only for saxons):
Hundradeflocc (Missile with Javelin/Axe)
Geoguthas (Infantry with Spear)
Ceorlwerod (Infantry with Sword)

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[danova]

Someone?
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[MagUidir]

the Ceorlwerod look sweet. wouldnt mind having them recruitable! haha good job!

[Warface93]

i´m for the yes no option
and nice unit danova!

[danova]

thanks mates.
...its very strange feeling because i made in this unit a long rótim age (January 02, 2009)
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[Warface93]

but are you sure the fyrd was so well equipned as in the picture?
i think they were untrained peasants

[danova]

but are you sure the fyrd was so well equipned as in the picture?
i think they were untrained peasants

Yes, sure:

... Ceorlwerod were the true middle class, landowners with a sizeable farm and connected family which supported slaves and lowerclasses working the fields around them, often lotted and hired out to thralls. The Churls were men of varying power and wealth yet all had good means to equip themselves for war, who could for example transport themselves to the levy gatherings by horse or even fight as light horsemen if required. They were dutybound to their local leaders, the Thegns, as well as bound by honour to protect their homes. They were no strangers to military service even if it was not their chosen way of life.They were dutybound to their local leaders, the Thegns, as well as bound by honour to protect their homes. They were no strangers to military service even if it was not their chosen way of life.

.. but they are small in numbers. The mass are followings:
Hundradeflocc (Missile with Javelin/Axe)
Geoguthas (Infantry with Spear)

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[MagUidir]

true, most were poor and used spears or their farming tools... cant wait this mod looks great.

[IrishBlood]

i voted for the first option, hiring them as merc's, i think this would be a much simpler option

[redxavier]

Simpler to be sure, but not very interesting. The idea of hiring fyrd units is almost as wrong as being able to recruit them. Calling the fyrd to arms should be the only way to get the fyrd units and their use should be limited.

Fyrds fit into the gameplay by being an almost instant army that support your professional troops when you go up against powerful enemies (i.e., the vikings), but this free army is balanced by the fact that you can only call it once every 12 turns, their strength is only in their numbers, they cannot be retrained or replenished and they autodisband after 3 or 4 turns.

In the progress thread, I suggested scripting the spawning of a fyrd army in a region after the player has constructed a building in the settlement. So it sorts of works like this:

Player fulfills requirements for calling a fyrd in the region -> call fyrd building becomes available -> player wants to call the fyrd to fight a viking army -> player adds call fyrd building to queue -> building finished next turn -> fyrd army (3-6 units?) spawned in region -> player uses fyrd army to supplement their professional troops to fight off viking army -> 3 turns pass -> message pops up 'fyrd want to go home' -> player destroys building -> fyrd units automatically disband.

You could probably have it so that you can keep the fyrd in the field for longer, but with some penalty like you have to pay more money, but you shouldn't ever be able to keep a fyrd active for longer than 6 turns (i.e., half a year).

Under this system, each region has its own fyrd units. So you'd have Ceorlwerod of Winchester and Ceorlwerod of York etc. You could combine the fyrd armies of two or 3 regions together to form a powerful army to beat off a full scale viking invasion or launch your own invasion into viking held territory.

[diiter]

I like the idea of redxavier... You could also add serious unrest linked with the "call fyrd"-building, but occuring not until the fyrd wants to go home... this way even very rich players are forced to destroy the "call fyrd"-building sooner or later, respectively let the fyrd go home.

[danova]

Yes redxavier, my older idea is very similar.
... but i dont want to connect for a building (the Fyrd), because in this case we get a normal vanila recruit system... just a difference is building type (barrack vs fyrd 'building').

But i'm opened.

Simpler to be sure, but not very interesting. The idea of hiring fyrd units is almost as wrong as being able to recruit them. Calling the fyrd to arms should be the only way to get the fyrd units and their use should be limited.

Fyrds fit into the gameplay by being an almost instant army that support your professional troops when you go up against powerful enemies (i.e., the vikings), but this free army is balanced by the fact that you can only call it once every 12 turns, their strength is only in their numbers, they cannot be retrained or replenished and they autodisband after 3 or 4 turns.

In the progress thread, I suggested scripting the spawning of a fyrd army in a region after the player has constructed a building in the settlement. So it sorts of works like this:

Player fulfills requirements for calling a fyrd in the region -> call fyrd building becomes available -> player wants to call the fyrd to fight a viking army -> player adds call fyrd building to queue -> building finished next turn -> fyrd army (3-6 units?) spawned in region -> player uses fyrd army to supplement their professional troops to fight off viking army -> 3 turns pass -> message pops up 'fyrd want to go home' -> player destroys building -> fyrd units automatically disband.

You could probably have it so that you can keep the fyrd in the field for longer, but with some penalty like you have to pay more money, but you shouldn't ever be able to keep a fyrd active for longer than 6 turns (i.e., half a year).

Under this system, each region has its own fyrd units. So you'd have Ceorlwerod of Winchester and Ceorlwerod of York etc. You could combine the fyrd armies of two or 3 regions together to form a powerful army to beat off a full scale viking invasion or launch your own invasion into viking held territory.

[redxavier]

Yes redxavier, my older idea is very similar.
... but i dont want to connect for a building (the Fyrd), because in this case we get a normal vanila recruit system... just a difference is building type (barrack vs fyrd 'building').

But i'm opened.

I should clarify, the building doesn't actually do anything, it doesn't allow for recruitment of the fyrd units - it is only the trigger for a fyrd army to spawn and is merely an alternative to scripting a Yes/No event. With a Yes/No event you have to find some way to activate it, like using ButtonPressed (but which button?) or tying it into a condition (settlementundersiege?) but use a building and you give the player full control over when it starts - the campaign_script merely monitors the completion of the building in a settlement and then spawns the army somewhere in the region (most likely the middle). Further, when you destroy the building, that then also triggers the disbanding of all the fyrd units, but also allows you to keep playing with the settlement's fyrd units under increasingly severe penalties. That stuff would be complicated to script, but the building makes it a lot easier to do.

So the building isn't a building at all - it's merely an entity that starts and ends the script. Its picture wouldn't show a building either - just text saying 'Call Fyrd' or something.

i like the merc idea, because in history you can't just call a fyrd and they're all there ready.

Except with the merc option that's precisely what they would do - be there immediately. With a script, you can delay their appearance, a turn for example, to simulate the amount of time it takes them to muster.

[danova]

... the building doesn't actually do anything, it doesn't allow for recruitment of the fyrd units - it is only the trigger ...
... So the building isn't a building at all - it's merely an entity that starts and ends the script. Its picture wouldn't show a building either - just text saying 'Call Fyrd' or something.

Yes i know, but i'm afraid a bit: what will the simple user see? I able to build two buildings: a barrak - here i will recruit the high units, and another a fyrd - here i will recruit the low units...
Yes i know this is simplification, but this is the reason of I favour the event base script. (... but we have some problems in the event script)

... Further, when you destroy the building, that then also triggers the disbanding of all the fyrd units, but also allows you to keep playing with the settlement's fyrd units under increasingly severe penalties. That stuff would be complicated to script, but the building makes it a lot easier to do.

This is the big benefit of this solution.



We did not decide on this case yet.

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[Cincinatus]

Simpler to be sure, but not very interesting. The idea of hiring fyrd units is almost as wrong as being able to recruit them. Calling the fyrd to arms should be the only way to get the fyrd units and their use should be limited.

Fyrds fit into the gameplay by being an almost instant army that support your professional troops when you go up against powerful enemies (i.e., the vikings), but this free army is balanced by the fact that you can only call it once every 12 turns, their strength is only in their numbers, they cannot be retrained or replenished and they autodisband after 3 or 4 turns.

In the progress thread, I suggested scripting the spawning of a fyrd army in a region after the player has constructed a building in the settlement. So it sorts of works like this:

Player fulfills requirements for calling a fyrd in the region -> call fyrd building becomes available -> player wants to call the fyrd to fight a viking army -> player adds call fyrd building to queue -> building finished next turn -> fyrd army (3-6 units?) spawned in region -> player uses fyrd army to supplement their professional troops to fight off viking army -> 3 turns pass -> message pops up 'fyrd want to go home' -> player destroys building -> fyrd units automatically disband.

You could probably have it so that you can keep the fyrd in the field for longer, but with some penalty like you have to pay more money, but you shouldn't ever be able to keep a fyrd active for longer than 6 turns (i.e., half a year).

Under this system, each region has its own fyrd units. So you'd have Ceorlwerod of Winchester and Ceorlwerod of York etc. You could combine the fyrd armies of two or 3 regions together to form a powerful army to beat off a full scale viking invasion or launch your own invasion into viking held territory.

Do this both ways. You could have a high tier building called "Alfred's Military Reorganization Office". This could be available sooner and cheaper to the wessex faction. And here you could recruit the better trained fyrd, ceorlmen as is often attributed to what Alfred had to help fight the vikings. These could be obtained from an additional mercenary hiring office, and operate as mercenaries as above. The regular older fyrd, could be recruited free but have a upkeep of say 350-500 per unit if taken from the settlement. Your fyrd could be available from say a Lord's Service building? And you could have the benefit being happiness bonus and income bonus. A second building, say called "Lord's (or use the word Thegn's for both) Levy Training Center", and this one could be where the fyrd is recruited from.

[Celtichugs123]

Brilliant thought Redxavier, also the Unrest penalty is a brilliant idea. Would make perfect Historic and gameplay sense.

[Warface93]

oh, i thought the showen unit is the only fyrd unit

[worldsdead]

i like the merc idea, because in history you can't just call a fyrd and they're all there ready.
but with the merc units, they could be free and recruitable in each territory in set amounts. this way you'd have to send a general/ generals around to your provinces to gather the fyrd.
then when unit routs/ killed/ disband, that unit could be up for recruitment again in their region after a certain amount of turns.
i don't know if its doable but maybe you could make fyrd units likely to desert after a certain amount of turns? farmers and land owners never liked to be away from home for long. also think after first turn they should be cost prohibitive because in history you were losing the income of the working class, maybe make them cost more per each turn, to simulate unused land and shops in their homeland.

[Peteriscoolz]

I vote mercanary.I think the garrison script would be messy and would take a while to do.But another thing if you do add them as mercanry how are you going to do it? I mean are you going to tie it in with a specific event?For example:

 
unit Crusader Sergeants  exp 0 cost 210 replenish 0.15 - 0.35 max 2 initial 1  end_year 1280 religions { catholic } crusading

Or are you going to tie it in with a mission or specific event? Such as in TATW:

 
unit Rhovanion Mercs,   exp 0 cost 780 replenish 0.02 - 0.04 max 1 initial 1  events { mission_defend_dale_success } factions { timurids }

[Csatádi]

redxavier, I like your building idea but danova doesn't and he is the mod leader.

Peteriscoolz, the first version without crusading

worldsdead, we can make random and other parameters into scripts. For example to link fyrd unit numbers to the faction leader's authority.