Ideas on the Reunited Kingdom

[ChivalrousKiller]

Glorfindel the Tukker and myself have been discussing a lot the matter of uniting Gondor and Arnor into the Reunited Kingdom. Our ideas will be posted here, and I ask for your opinions on the matter as well. (Please don't just say that it's a bad idea, this thread is for people who like the suggestion, and would like to see it included in TATW)

And this is only a thread for ideas and suggestions, there's not a submod coming (at least not yet).

Faction Information:
Reunited Kingdom of Gondor and Arnor:
Culture: Dúnedain
Capital city: Osgiliath?
Faction Leader: High King (with the trait 'High King of Gondor and Arnor')
Icon: The White Tree and the Seven Stars
1st colour: Black
2nd colour:

Units:
Gondor area units
Axemen of Lossarnach (Lossarnach)
Pelagir Marines (Pelagir)
Citadel Guard ( Guards of Minas Tirith?)
Fountain Guard (Minas Tirith)
Blackroot Vale Archers (Erech and Calembel)
Ithilien Rangers (Ithilien)
Swan Knights (Dol Amroth)
Dismounted Swan Knights ( Dol Amroth)

Arnor area units
Arnor Men at Arms
Arnorian Heavy Archers
Hollow Steel Marksmen
Knights of Annumínas (Annúminas)
Dismounted Dunedain Knights (Annúminas)
Guardians of Amon Sûl (Amon Sûl) (NEW)

And all over kingdom units:
Dunedain Rangers (common elite archers)
High King Guards (Osgiliath and Annúminas) (NEW)
RK Militia
RK Archer Militia
RK Cavalry Militia
RK Sergeants
RK Spearmen
RK Pikemen
RK Knights (possibly)

Ideas on the missions for the factions to re-unite:

For Gondor:

"New Mission
Take settlements: Black Gate, Minas Morgul & Barad-Dûr
Rebuild: Osgiliath (and the Dome of Stars and the Great Bridge), Minas Ithil and the North-south Road
Secure an alliance with Arnor
Reward: The Kingdom of Arnor will join your faction"

For Arnor:

"New Mission
Take settlements: Carn Dûm, Gram, Lond Daer
Rebuild: Annúminas, the North-south Road & the fortress of Fornost Erain
Secure an alliance with Gondor
Reward: The Kingdom of Gondor will join your faction"

Also, there should be certain buildings and settlements that can be rebuilt after the re-union:
The Great Watchtower of Amon Sûl
The Port of Lond Daer
The Bridge of Tharbad

And for those who think that such a faction will just be too strong and conquere everything, I agree with them. But here's a reason, from Mikail Mengsk

why not? After Sauron's fall the game is over anyway, why not to add some awesomeness like a reunited Juggernaut Kingdom just for world domination's sake? Lore-wise is not such an abomination.

[Miroslav Klose]

Glorfindel the Tukker and myself have been discussing a lot the matter of uniting Gondor and Arnor into the Reunited Kingdom. Our ideas will be posted here, and I ask for your opinions on the matter as well. (Please don't just say that it's a bad idea, this thread is for people who like the suggestion, and would like to see it included in TATW)

Ideas on the missions:

For Gondor:

"New Mission
Take settlements: Black Gate, Minas Morgul & Barad-Dûr
Rebuild: Osgiliath (and the Dome of Stars and the Great Bridge), Minas Ithil and the North-south Road
Secure an alliance with Arnor
Reward: The Kingdom of Arnor will join your faction"

For Arnor:

"New Mission
Take settlements: Carn Dûm, Gram
Rebuild: Annúminas, the North-south Road & the Great Watchtower of Amon Sûl
Secure an alliance with Gondor
Reward: The Kingdom of Gondor will join your faction"

Hey, you really made it. Anyway fthe ideas above are the objectives for an explanation see things below.

Originally Posted by Glorfindel The Tukker
I don't know if that's posiible. I mean, you will take over an entire AI faction when playing as human, and how will the AI react when it gets another empire far away of them Well, after Mordor is destroyed it could happen when possible, which I doubt, Aragorn would be High king of Gondor and Arnor. But let's make a re-emergence thing of it!
1. Destroy Mordor as Gondor and Harondor, And as Arnor destroy Gundabad and capture all the three settlements you've got conquer to become Arnor.
2. As Gondor, Rebuild Osgiliath (and the Dome of Stars and the Great Bridge), and rebuild Minas Ithil and the great North Soud Road
As Arnor, rebuild the great North South Road and Tharbad and the Bridge of Tharbad, rebuild Annuminas and rebuild Fornost Erain, (North South Road is important for the contact between Arnor and Gornor, though Rohan (Calenardhon) could be a problem, maybe not put it in. And you've got to rebuild a bit more than you're used too, you'll become the greates and mightiest empire since Godnor in the Third Age and Numenor after all.
3. Get an alliance with Gondor/Arnor

Alot of people say the Reunited Kingdom thing isn't lore-accurate, but it is. Just because Isildur didn't reach Arnor to take the scepter and rule over Arnor and Gondor as one as it was under Elendil (Gladden Fields), Valandil, the fourth son became king of 'only Arnor'. They are meant to be a single kingdom in the Second Age, though separate and different. But, now Sauron is gone (this could be implemented in the Game for Gondor by conquering Ithilien and important parts of Mordor and maybe Harondor, and as Arnor conqueer Gundabad (the Angmar of old, he, for the rest see my other post. Allright, maybe a bir tough to do, not sure if it's possibel, but anyway, in the Fourth age once again the Kindoms in Exile were ruled under one king, something not happended since the days of Elendil, so its' quite lore-accurate in my tiny little humble opinion . Maybe it would be a big superpower, but that's exactly what it's supposed to be, isn' it? And it will indeed be hard to do. Maybe something can do something with this, I am glad someone started this thread because this re-emergence is abetter idea than stuff like Rhovanion and bring back Numenor.

EDIT, thanks Chivalrous Killer, it's agreat compliment that a mod like TATW needs my ideas

At first i was like

Game barkingly bad idea

But then i thought "why not?". After Sauron's fall the game is over anyway, why not to add some awesomeness like a reunited Juggernaut Kingdom just for world domination's sake? Lore-wise is not such an abomination.

exactly, it would provide a late-game challenge. Give Gondor and Arnor a couple of objective and make sure (if that's possible) the AI will try to achieve them, like, take Barad-dur, build this and that, hold both minasses etc. By the time they actually manage this, you'll be a Rhunnic powerhouse searching for a challenge. It's your own fault for letting them unite anyway.

Yes, why not use these ideas, they are great No seriously, Gondor does not need to take all of Mordor (Nargroth, Dol Guldur, Nurnen) for when the Barad-Dur and it's two main fortresses are taken would be on it's knees, when the Barad-Dur is gone and the Orodruin taken, Sauron is 'dead' (allright, he remains pope).

Also, it isn't needed to take Harondor for Aragorn took this and more southern lands like Umbar after the forming of the Reunited Kingdom, so I guess it's lore-accurate.

About the North South Road, it was the main connection between Arnor and Gondor (as like the palantiri but I don't think they canbe added in the game and there weren't so much left either), (though it also goes southern than Gondor and more southern), Aglarond (Helm's Deep), Orthanc (Isengard, Tharbad and the great Bridge across the Gwathlo, Bree and Fornost Erain. It also goes through Rohan (Calenardhon), maybe a script to give Rohan some money, a screen appears for Rohan player 'Rebuild Great North South Road with money of Gondor and craftsmen of Gondor and other stuff of Gondor through your lands.

And you'll need an alliance with Arnor and Rohan for the North South Road (which you've probably got but I've got to mention it

EDIT
The requirements for Arnor.
1. Become Arnor by conquering three settlements needed, the Hall of Kings and an alliance with Gondor. You also must destroy Gundabad, the old enemies of Arnor/Arthedain/Cardolan (Angmar).
2. Rebuild you're part of the Great North South Road, (the part where now the 'Greenway' is will cost you less), rebuild the great bridge at Tharbad, then continue through Enedwaith and give Rohan the monet to build their part (see text above, alliance with Rohan is needed for this).

Further rebuild Annuminas, Tower of of Sunset, (hey, a Hall for the king isn't an entire city) by building the ancient walls, importnat governemantal buildings and maybe a temple for the Valar.
Rebuild Fornost Erain, also a former capital but than of Arthedain, rebuild the centre of the city (town hall, government buildings) and for 'Fornost Erain' means 'Northern Stronghold of Kings', which it was for it was way easier to defende than Annuminas and it was further strengthend, you must rebuild the ancient walls and the citadel.

3. And last and probably least; get an alliance with Gondor.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...=383318&page=2
See this for some nice pics!!! and this was the original thread but the chivalrous killer made a summary of the ideas

[ChivalrousKiller]

Ok, so we've gone through the requirements for reunion.

How should this faction actually be? A mixture of the best units of each faction? (like Knights of Annùminas, Swan Knights, both Ithilien and Dunedain Rangers, Fountain Guard...)

Perhaps some new units? Like just take the regular Gondor/Arnor units and call them Numenorrean Militia, Numenorrian Spearmen...

A bit of the faction information is obvious though:
Culture: Dunedain
Faction leader title: High-King
Capital: Annùminas/Osgiliath

[Miroslav Klose]

I think the rosters of Arnor and Gondor should be mixed together, maybe leaving some units, but since they are two different kingdoms under one banner with a slightly different culture they should keep their AOR units.

The capital will be difficult, maybe what I'm going to say isn't lore-accurate, but a southern settlement of Arnor in Enedwaith would be best in a gameplay perspective. I don't think it's possible to have two capitals (Annuminas and Osgiliath)

Oh and faction leader title would be High King or High King of Gondor and Arnor/or Arnor and Gondor or else maybe High King of the Dunedain (like High King of the Noldor, but I don't thiknk this is the best option)

[Samwise]

High King of the Reunited Kingdom,is the best I think

[Miroslav Klose]

High King of the Reunited Kingdom,is the best I think

Yes, but since the Reunited kingdom is actually a sort of alliance of two factions united under one banner, High King of Arnor and Gondor is maybe better, what do other people think about the faction leader title?

[ChivalrousKiller]

I think his title should be "High King" and his trait for faction leader should be "High King of Gondor & Arnor"

Perhaps also another trait, "Leader of the Dunedain"
I thought of "High King of the Dunedain" but that doesn't really describe him, since there were very few men of Numenorrean blood left in these kingdoms

[AgentGB]

hmmmm, everytime i read threads like this, you guys keep edging closer to a brilliant idea i have, for a fun sub mod

[Miroslav Klose]

hmmmm, everytime i read threads like this, you guys keep edging closer to a brilliant idea i have, for a fun sub mod

What's your brilliant idea for a fun sub mod, AgentGB? @ChivalrousKiller I just noticed, but we aren't gonna rebuild Fornost Erain (yes I know four things is a lot to rebuild but still)

[AgentGB]

What's your brilliant idea for a fun sub mod, AgentGB? @ChivalrousKiller I just noticed, but we aren't gonna rebuild Fornost Erain (yes I know four things is a lot to rebuild but still)

well sorry guys, i may have overstated, your ideas are great, but i was thinking more along the lines of a what if situation, thou some things wouldn't be lore correct, see i like the idea of a reunited kingdom, bring my now two favourite factions together.

ive noticed on the campaign map, what brings stablization apart from the unit balance, is the postioning of every facton on the campaign map. I thinking of an alternative situation, where Gondor has been over run, causing the populace to flee and seek refuge among the Arnor

------

Most of middle earth has been over run, with smaller tribial organization/factions such as Umbar, wainriders establishing independant kingdoms due to the expansion of there empires, All Evils factions would start of allied with unbreakable alliances. Invasions are constanty sent into North West of middle earth, the only remaining free lands of good.

It would be built only to play as good factions, probably as reunited kingdom, which would have mix roster of both Gondor & Arnor troops, but kept & only buildable in specific regions. This could allow the player to set up his own Gondorian/Arnoian armys trying to give personalization much how Roma Surrectum II does with it legions, the only suriving factions would be men, dwarfs & Elves, but postioned (settlemented control altered in parts of the map) to display some sort of front line being forged, such as elves covering the bottom flank and approach from the seas, dwarves covering the the top flank, with the reunited men covering the center.

There not meant to be a storyline for it, thou im still putting it together in my head, but is basically an alamo of middle earth, where you are considerberly outnumbered and must rely on hard earnt battles and strategic deployment on the battle map to win against numerous odds. Money would be improved as this would be more military based then economy base, your worst enemy would be not trying to deplete your unit force pools. Thou this could get tiresome or tedious, constantly battling with no real objective but to retake middle earth, it would be more for people with my taste in a sandbox. I would include things to keep the incentive for people to continue playing, such as the legion effective with some traits, new hybrid units, showing Gondor & Arnoian units developing knew tactics.

Also do somthing with the AI diplomacy for good guys, givin strongest relations as pssbile, and possbiliy doing somthing with reducing the required cost when asking a friendly nation to preform a deed, such as "attack faction or take X&Y settlement" so you can get asistance easier and more realistically, the AI won't hang in the pack when you expand, making playing along with the AI more important to achieving victory

i think its more for Gondor, Arnor fans,

Alternative idea - was to do the same, but allow for it to take place in the "last alliance war campaign" which would take place over the dead marshes to Barad-dur with low tier castle acting as camps(non upgradble), but all units being available for recruitment,

idea are alot weaker when writtin down, it does sound better in my head think i was to excitied while explaining it but it would be more of a fun thing

[Miroslav Klose]

well sorry guys, i may have overstated, your ideas are great, but i was thinking more along the lines of a what if situation, thou some things wouldn't be lore correct, see i like the idea of a reunited kingdom, bring my now two favourite factions together.

ive noticed on the campaign map, what brings stablization apart from the unit balance, is the postioning of every facton on the campaign map. I thinking of an alternative situation, where Gondor has been over run, causing the populace to flee and seek refuge among the Arnor

------

Most of middle earth has been over run, with smaller tribial organization/factions such as Umbar, wainriders establishing independant kingdoms due to the expansion of there empires, All Evils factions would start of allied with unbreakable alliances. Invasions are constanty sent into North West of middle earth, the only remaining free lands of good.

It would be built only to play as good factions, probably as reunited kingdom, which would have mix roster of both Gondor & Arnor troops, but kept & only buildable in specific regions. This could allow the player to set up his own Gondorian/Arnoian armys trying to give personalization much how Roma Surrectum II does with it legions, the only suriving factions would be men, dwarfs & Elves, but postioned (settlemented control altered in parts of the map) to display some sort of front line being forged, such as elves covering the bottom flank and approach from the seas, dwarves covering the the top flank, with the reunited men covering the center.

There not meant to be a storyline for it, thou im still putting it together in my head, but is basically an alamo of middle earth, where you are considerberly outnumbered and must rely on hard earnt battles and strategic deployment on the battle map to win against numerous odds. Money would be improved as this would be more military based then economy base, your worst enemy would be not trying to deplete your unit force pools. Thou this could get tiresome or tedious, constantly battling with no real objective but to retake middle earth, it would be more for people with my taste in a sandbox. I would include things to keep the incentive for people to continue playing, such as the legion effective with some traits, new hybrid units, showing Gondor & Arnoian units developing knew tactics.

Also do somthing with the AI diplomacy for good guys, givin strongest relations as pssbile, and possbiliy doing somthing with reducing the required cost when asking a friendly nation to preform a deed, such as "attack faction or take X&Y settlement" so you can get asistance easier and more realistically, the AI won't hang in the pack when you expand, making playing along with the AI more important to achieving victory

i think its more for Gondor, Arnor fans,

Alternative idea - was to do the same, but allow for it to take place in the "last alliance war campaign" which would take place over the dead marshes to Barad-dur with low tier castle acting as camps(non upgradble), but all units being available for recruitment,

idea are alot weaker when writtin down, it does sound better in my head think i was to excitied while explaining it but it would be more of a fun thing

You indeed have a nice idea. About the positions of the Good Guys, they are positioned west of the Anduin/west of Isen or only Eriador? Anyway, I think that if the Good guys are behind the Misty Mountains the Orcs of Gundabad/Misty Mountains should be extinct to give a bit less pressure on the eastern front and don't make the Evil, guys so terribly strong.

[AgentGB]

You indeed have a nice idea. About the positions of the Good Guys, they are positioned west of the Anduin/west of Isen or only Eriador? Anyway, I think that if the Good guys are behind the Misty Mountains the Orcs of Gundabad/Misty Mountains should be extinct to give a bit less pressure on the eastern front and don't make the Evil, guys so terribly strong.

i know what you mean, the concept of it is still very weak in some places, where you said it would take place is correct! but wouldn't be sure about excluding OOTM as an enemy, probably drop the idea of making Umbar a faction, but tbh, its just an idea atm, need to be thought out a bit more, but i won't take this thread of topic anymore

[ChivalrousKiller]

If were going closer and closer to brilliant, that sounds good

[ChivalrousKiller]

Your idea is very good, Agent!
I think you should make your submod

But it is quite different from ours

[Lord Uxbridge]

I'm not quite sure how this can be scripted but if it can it should be good. Maybe you could get this campaign to appear under the custom campaignS section so you can choose whether or not you want a campaign with a chance of the united kingdom appearing or if you feel like a campaign without them appearing you can still choose the normal campaign

[Miroslav Klose]

I'm not quite sure how this can be scripted but if it can it should be good. Maybe you could get this campaign to appear under the custom campaignS section so you can choose whether or not you want a campaign with a chance of the united kingdom appearing or if you feel like a campaign without them appearing you can still choose the normal campaign

That would be a great idea for TATW, thos wo like the Reunited kingdom can choose them, those who don't can play the normal campaign

[dannyalex]

I would like to ask sorry From ChivalrousKiller and his friend to opening a New post for the same reason...the next time i ll search better and no double open post with same ideas

Yours, A Loyal Soldier Of Dunedain

[ChivalrousKiller]

It was I who copied your thread, danny, so it's nothing to apologize for

I just thought I could make a thread with a list of the ideas in the first post, to make it more "clean"

But please, post your ideas here

[Fishy]

Sounds absolutely brilliant, I would like to see most of the units from the two factions surviving through to the re-united Kingdom. Perhaps with the exception of the Militia troops that could be replaced with just one unit. However an AoR would be really useful still to prevent you from creating all the strong units in all the cities, maybe with exceptions for Osgiliath and Annuminas at most. There is no real Lore related reason for those two cities, but just because it would give you a chance to build the coolest units everywhere.

As for the capital I would go with Osgiliath, preferably west. It's not the capitol of either kingdom, but it just to be the capitol of the most powerful kingdom out there, besides it looks good to restore the ancient kingdom and an ancient capitol at the same time. If not Osgiliath then Minas Tirith, because from what I know Aragorn spend most of his time ruling from that city anyway.

[David93]

I have a problem with the calling things numenorian... thing. Does that not really break lore? Like they're all dead. Should there not at most be a very rare unit of numenorian soldiers.

Personaly i would love a mod that followed. The war of the elves and sauron and continued on to the war of the last alliance.

As the elves you could start out fighting mordor with the goal of making an alliance e.c.t.

Any way don't want to derail the thread. I recommend combining the fountain guard with arnor swordsmen change they're armor to black add a shield on they're back. So that they can use a sword in close combat.