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  1. #1
    Augustus Lucifer's Avatar Life = Like a beanstalk
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    Default [Amendment] CdeC Interns

    Proposer: Augustus Lucifer
    Required Support: Viking Prince, Saint Nicholas, irishron
    Additional Support: Mr MM, Mega Tortas de Bodemloze, Capt. Fozdike, Major Darling, Romanos IV, Captain Blackadder, Acco, Nole4694, Legio, 'The Hedge Knight, Lysimachus

    Reader's Note: Instances of [...] within the text indicate that the text between the above and below text is not altered in any way by this amendment, but is excluded for some semblance of brevity/focus. In general though, even where [...] is not present, text not in INS or DEL tags is unaffected. It should also be noted that some of the unaltered text may differ from the Constitution at time of writing, since I copied over the changes made by the passed amendment Preservation of the CdeC good conduct period which have not yet been included.

    Section II - The Legislature
    [...]

    Article IV. The Consilium De CivitatesThe Consilium de Civitates manages the granting and removal of all Curia Ranks by voting. The Consilium de Civitates may also function as an advisory body to the staff of TWC in matters concerning the Curia and its Citizens.

    MembershipThe full membership comprises of:

    • Twelve elected Citizens Councilors elected from the Citizen body, who may discuss and vote on all matters within the Consilium de Civitates Forum
    • Four Interns, who may discuss all matters within the Consilium de Civitates Forum, but have no vote.
    • Hexagon members, who may discuss all matters within the Consilium de Civitates Forum, but have no vote.
    • The Curator, who may take part in all Consilium de Civitates discussions, and has the deciding vote only in the case of a tie. The Curator has veto powers over any Consilium de Civitates decision.

    Elected members of the Consilium de Civitates Councilors and the Curator must actively participate in discussions and votes. Interns must actively participate in discussions. Hexagon members' participation is optional.

    ElectionsConsilium de Civitates members Councilors are elected as per Article II, Section II for three months, with the added requirements that they currently have no active staff warnings and that for the period of three months prior to the commencement of the elections they have; held their rank as citizen, and received no warnings from the Consilium de Civitates.

    Interns are elected by the same procedure as Councilors, with the following addendum's:
    • One intern is elected alongside each Consilium de Civitates election, in a separate election with a separate application thread. The Intern candidates participate in the same debate thread as Councilor candidates. An internship expires when the terms of the Councilors elected during the same cycle expire.
    • To qualify for an internship, a member must meet all the following requirements in addition to those for Councilors:
      • Cannot have served two or more terms as a Councilor, and cannot have served one term within the six months prior to election, OR if a member has served two or more terms as a Councilor, their last term must have ended over a year before the current election and prior to June 16th, 2010.
      • Cannot have served as an Intern two times previously, and cannot have served an internship within the six months prior to election.
    • A member may apply to be a Councilor and an Intern in the same election cycle, assuming they meet the requirements. If elected to both, the member is made a Councilor and the member with the next most votes in the intern election is made an Intern, repeating as necessary. A term as a Councilor and an internship cannot be served concurrently.

    Applicants who do not meet these requirements will be invited to withdraw by the Curator by PM detailing on what criteria they failed. Should the notified candidate fail to satisfy the Curator that they do indeed meet the criteria for application they will be removed from consideration by the Curator prior to the shortlisting of candidates for election. At the time of removal the candidates failed criteria will be placed in the application thread for public scrutiny.

    If a Councilor member of the Consilium de Civitates resigns during their term, and that term is less than 50% completed (that is, it has over one and a half months left to run), an election will be held for a replacement member to serve the remainder of the term. If the resigning member's term is more than 50% completed, the vacant position may be filled by a volunteering Staff Member who otherwise fits the requirements for the position. If an Intern resigns during their internship, the position shall remain vacant until their internship would expire, and the internship counts towards the maximum allowed by election requirements.

    New elections will be held prior to the expiry of member's terms in order to ensure that the Consilium de Civitates remains at full strength.

    Removal from OfficeAn elected Consilium de Civitates member may resign from office, or can be removed from office by a majority vote of the elected Councilors, such a vote being triggered by any of the following:

    • Incurring a warning level of one
    • Incurring two cautions in the space of three months
    • Incurring a Consilium de Civitates warning
    • Incurring two Concilium de Civitates notes in the space of three months
    • Prolonged inactivity, as decided by a simple majority vote in the Consilium de Civitates


    [...]


    Section III - Member Ranks and the Curator
    [...]
    Article II. Patronisation
    Any Citizen holding their rank for three months can patronise a Peregrinus for citizenship subject to the requirements in Article I above. The process of patronisation is as follows.
    1. The patron confirms the candidate meets the requirements, OR a candidate meeting the requirements contacts a Citizen asking for patronage.
    2. The nominee sends the patron a PM explaining his duties and privileges as a Citizen, and his contributions to the community. The patron posts this paragraph, along with his own, outlining why he nominated this member, in a new thread in the Patronization forum.
    3. A CdeC member opens a thread in the CdeC Forum.
    4. A CdeC member responds to the corresponding thread in the Patronization forum, denoting that the proposition has been moved to discussion.
    5. After two days have passed the Curator adds a Poll lasting for five days.
    6. If the nominee achieves sixty per cent of the non-abstaining votes and at least two-thirds of all Councilors CdeC members voted, he becomes a Citizen.
    7. In exceptional circumstances, the period of discussion can be extended at the behest of Councilors and discretion of the Curator, to comply with the voting requirements or otherwise.
    8. The Curator informs the candidate and patron of the result. If the candidate does not pass, the Curator includes the date at which they may re-apply, and asks the applicant whether they want the application to be made public or kept private. Public cases are kept in the Antechamber, viewable to all members; private cases are kept in the Archives, viewable only to the CdeC.
    9. If the candidate passes, the Curator promotes the member to Citizen.

    If a nominee fails his vote, he is not eligible to be considered again for one month after the conclusion of the traditional seven day processing period. Members of the CdeC must abstain from voting on members they patronise.

    [...]
    Article IV. The Curator
    The Curator shall be elected by the procedure in Section 2 Article 2, with the addition that the Curator shall post the mandate for the job in the Qualifications thread.

    The Curator shall hold his office for a period of three months from the day they are elected. If the Curator is absent (has not logged into the site) for 7 days without giving notice of an absence, or if the Curator is absent for more than 15 days regardless of notice, or if the Curator resigns, the Curator is automatically removed from office along with any appointed staff.

    Any decisions of this office shall be held over until a replacement is elected.

    Where such a decision is time-limited, time from the moment the Curator is removed shall not count towards the limit and will continue only from when a new Curator is elected. When the Curator has been absent for the time prescribed, the CdeC shall appoint a Pro-Curator. The Pro-Curator shall be the longest serving current Councilor CdeC member. Where multiple members were elected on the same day, the Pro-Curator shall be the member with the highest number of votes in the CdeC election. Should the qualifying Councilor CdeC member intend to stand for Curator, he may not become Pro-Curator and the next longest serving member is appointed.

    [...]

    [...]


    Section V - Additional Provisions
    [...]

    Article II. Community Awards
    [...]
    Large Awards
    [...]
    Divus
    To achieve apotheosis and Curia vote, the nominee must be supported by three fourths of non-abstaining Councilors elected members of the Consilium de Civitate. The nominee must have served as a Hexagon member (or previous equivalents), made a clear and distinguished contribution to the community and provided exceptional service to TWC in their capacity as an administrator. They cannot be nominated within three months of resigning.

    Any Citizen can nominate a former Hexagon member and does so by PMing a Consilium de Civitate member. The Consilium de Civitate will create a thread within the Consilium de Civitate Forum to investigate the legitimacy of the nominee’s accolades. The Consilium de Civitate has the right to request any and all relevant material from the Staff to ascertain this, with the approval of the Hexagon Council. The Consilium de Civitate will discuss the nominee and his qualifications for at least a week before the vote is held.

    Should the nominee receive the support of three fourths of non-abstaining Councilors Consilium de Civitate members, the Curator shall create a discussion in the Prothalamos lasting at least three days and then move the nomination to vote as per the procedure in Section 2 Article 3. The vote shall last one week and the nominee shall require a two-third majority of non-abstaining votes to become Divus. A nominee who fails the vote is not eligible to be nominated again for a six month period.

    [...]

    Medium Awards
    [...]
    Consilium de Civitate Service
    The Consilium de Civitate Service Medal is awarded to former Councilors members of the Consilium at the discretion of the Curator. The bronze medal is given for two completed terms as Councilor a member of the Consilium de Civitate; the silver medal is given for four completed terms; and the gold medal is given for six completed terms; the emerald medal for eight 12 completed terms; the ruby for ten 18 completed terms; and the amethyst medal for twelve 24 or more completed terms. The Curator is only eligible if he served the sufficient number of completed terms outside his capacity as Curator. These medals shall be awarded to all those who qualify, past and present.








    Rationale of Major Change

    There is one major change, the addition of the Intern position and all that entails.

    The underlying idea of internship is simple and is utilized in almost every private sector. When you are looking for a (reasonably advanced) job, the employer generally wants two key things: education and work experience. Education in real scenarios generally means BS/BA/MA/PhD. In the Curial context, an education can be displayed by way of participation in the debate thread, showing that you know what your job will be and you have a good understanding and mindset. Work experience can be harder to get. Why? Because if every job wants work experience, and in order to get work experience you need a job that... requires work experience, you're in a bit of a conundrum. This isn't mandated on TWC, but it's poignantly obvious in the vote results that incumbents have a massive advantage, and this is one of the major factors.

    The solution to this in real world scenarios is internship (or freelancing in some fields, but that's not analogous). An internship allows an employer to have relatively little financial risk associated with the hiring due to the fact it isn't a paid position. Therefore they can give ambitious and otherwise qualified candidates much needed experience which may translate into entry level job opportunities. The same idea holds true for the Curia. In order to see how candidates who've never been on the CdeC perform, we need to see them in the context of actual cases. The way we can do that without electing them is to elect interns and remove any risk associated with it due to interns not having a vote.

    This setup allows aspiring candidates to participate and gain valuable experience. They can still participate in the discussion and even state how they would have voted, they simply don't have a counted vote. By the end of their internship, they'll have a list of cases they can direct voters to that show how they perform in real scenarios. That provides them a much better platform and chance against incumbent Councilors, especially if Councilors underperformed. Which is another important point. Interns have everything to prove, whereas Councilors can get complacent, so by introducing more new users with vigor and passion we also encourage sitting Councilors to up their game, and that results in the best possible outcome for applicants and appellants because everyone is looking at matters in depth.

    In summation: no risk, plenty of reward, easy to implement and manage. Questions?

    Rationale of Minor Changes

    There are three minor accompanying changes(read: bugfixes).

    The first minor change is that throughout most of the document the phrase 'Consilium de Civitates member' and similar terms which are intended to refer to the twelve elected Councilors have been changed to read 'Councilor' or 'Councilors'. The other distinction would conceivably refer to the Curator and Hex as well, plus Interns with the major addition, so this makes it clearer. Not all instances have been changed to this phrase because some are intended to refer to all four groups, or the three elected groups, as a whole.

    The second minor change is in the first line of Section III Article IV, where I've removed the part pertaining to a 'Qualifications thread'. Such a thread has never existed or been used in the last two years, and it's unclear what such a thread is intended for, but it was probably a precursor to the debate threads and therefore unnecessary now.

    The third minor change is to the CdeC Service medal, which changes the terms for the ruby/emerald/amethyst medals to 8-10-12 instead of 12-18-24. The reasoning for this should be obvious. 24 terms on the CdeC is 6 years worth of service, since each term is 3 months. Ignoring the fact that's a ridiculous number which will never happen, the current staff equivalent medals cap at 3 years for Amethyst. 12 terms is 3 years, so the change makes it at least a bit more feasible and useful.
    Last edited by Augustus Lucifer; August 27, 2010 at 09:53 PM.

  2. #2
    Viking Prince's Avatar Horrible(ly cute)
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    Default Re: [Amendment] CdeC Interns

    You can add me to your two somewhat suspect supporters.

    This may actually be the best solution to getting a competitive mix of new blood into the system. Serve as an intern. With the hoped for greater transparancy, this will allow citizens to make an informed choice between the old hands and the new interested citizens.
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  3. #3
    Augustus Lucifer's Avatar Life = Like a beanstalk
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    Default Re: [Amendment] CdeC Interns

    Quote Originally Posted by Viking Prince View Post
    You can add me to your two somewhat suspect supporters.

    This may actually be the best solution to getting a competitive mix of new blood into the system. Serve as an intern. With the hoped for greater transparancy, this will allow citizens to make an informed choice between the old hands and the new interested citizens.
    Indeed. I made one addition at the same time as your post though, adding this line to the requirements:
    OR if a member has served two or more terms as a Councilor, their last term must have ended over a year before the current election and prior to June 16th, 2010.
    Basically the reason is that members who served a while ago prior to transparency also have nothing to stand on in elections, so should be extended the same opportunity as completely fresh candidates. The significance of the date is that it's 3 months after the passage of Opt-In Transparency, which began the first terms where there was full public record of all types of cases throughout the term.

  4. #4
    Viking Prince's Avatar Horrible(ly cute)
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    Default Re: [Amendment] CdeC Interns

    Sigh. Perhaps I should rethink my support. This is obviously a work in progress.




    support
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Cashmere View Post
    Weighing into threads with the steel capped boots on just because you disagree with my viewpoints, is just embarrassing.

















    Quote Originally Posted by Hagar_the_Horrible
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  5. #5
    Augustus Lucifer's Avatar Life = Like a beanstalk
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    Default Re: [Amendment] CdeC Interns

    Quote Originally Posted by Viking Prince View Post
    Sigh. Perhaps I should rethink my support. This is obviously a work in progress.
    That depends on how many blatant mistakes I've made.

  6. #6
    Leonidas The Lion's Avatar Until we win! Or die.
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    Default Re: [Amendment] CdeC Interns

    OR we could go back to 16 councilors.
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  7. #7
    Saint Nicholas's Avatar No Avatar Specified
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    Default Re: [Amendment] CdeC Interns

    Support this interesting idea.
    "Muscovy", as its rulers have previously called it, is a sleeping giant, with age-old traditions and ways of doing things. Here, the feudal way of life has become so entrenched that the serfs are as tied to the land as cattle, and with almost as few rights. It is a vast, deeply conservative and religious country: Mother Russia and the Orthodox Church are the two pillars of national belief. The Tsar may be the father of his people, but by tradition and practice he is a stern parent. Ivan the Terrible was well named, and he has not been the only ruler with an iron will. Russia is the "Third Rome". The last bastion of Orthodox Christianity.

  8. #8
    irishron's Avatar Cura Palatii
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    Default Re: [Amendment] CdeC Interns

    Tentative support.

  9. #9
    Nole4694's Avatar Procrastination Power!
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    Default Re: [Amendment] CdeC Interns

    Well you had my iffy support (I'll get to my reasons) until your last addition. A year is a long time to wait, especially since that means that more experienced CdeC members would have to wait a year after every time they were elected. It seems a little bit extreme to me, and could pose problems in elections where the pickings are lean (like only 4 people or something) in which case their restriction from standing for election could potentially do more hurt than good.

    Now, this proposal had my support(before the aforementioned addition) because its interesting and as you said no real hurt could come about it. It does add yet another election for us to do , however with the transparency moving apace it may allow (again, as you said) for members to have a chance to stand up against some of the more experienced dudes out there in the CdeC councilor elections. With that I guess the trade off is fine, but only if it actually works out as planned which I predict might not happen.
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    karamazovmm's Avatar スマトラ警備隊
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    Default Re: [Amendment] CdeC Interns

    I support, but only if you teach me to count up to 42

    edit: and thanks for all the fish
    Last edited by karamazovmm; August 23, 2010 at 08:52 PM.

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  11. #11
    Mega Tortas de Bodemloze's Avatar Do it now.
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    Default Re: [Amendment] CdeC Interns

    Initial Blind support until I can actually decipher the petitioner's "Wall of Text", because I stirred the pot, and was a rabid little monkey
    in regards to this issue...

  12. #12
    Augustus Lucifer's Avatar Life = Like a beanstalk
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    Default Re: [Amendment] CdeC Interns

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonidas The Lion View Post
    OR we could go back to 16 councilors.
    If the problem now is 12 seats circulating between the same faces, the problem with 16 would be 16 seats circulating between the same faces, plus a harder consensus. The goal isn't to add four opinions but simply to allow for gaining experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nole4694 View Post
    Well you had my iffy support (I'll get to my reasons) until your last addition. A year is a long time to wait, especially since that means that more experienced CdeC members would have to wait a year after every time they were elected. It seems a little bit extreme to me, and could pose problems in elections where the pickings are lean (like only 4 people or something) in which case their restriction from standing for election could potentially do more hurt than good.
    Not sure I know what you mean. Just so we're on the same page, the year is for people who have served as a Councilor for two or more terms and wish to apply for internship. It doesn't apply to the Councilor election, only applying for internship. The only reason it was added was to allow for folks who participated in older CdeCs to have access to the same program due to the lack of transparency back then; prior to its addition folks with 2+ terms under their belt wouldn't have been able to apply at all. Councilors in the modern era shouldn't need internship because they have a term or two for voters to reference already, hence the selected date range for when it goes out of use.

    With regards to lack of candidates, I think recent elections bode well for the candidate pool. If the competition is ever lacking that just means less confident members will put themselves out there. But even if there were 0 candidates for Intern it would not harm the CdeC operation in any way, as with 0 Interns you have exactly the same system as we have right now. Internship is there for the benefit of the intern and by transition the Curia, not to do anything magnificent for the day-to-day operations of the CdeC, at least not directly.

  13. #13
    Nole4694's Avatar Procrastination Power!
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    Default Re: [Amendment] CdeC Interns

    Quote Originally Posted by Augustus Lucifer View Post
    Not sure I know what you mean. Just so we're on the same page, the year is for people who have served as a Councilor for two or more terms and wish to apply for internship. It doesn't apply to the Councilor election, only applying for internship. The only reason it was added was to allow for folks who participated in older CdeCs to have access to the same program due to the lack of transparency back then; prior to its addition folks with 2+ terms under their belt wouldn't have been able to apply at all. Councilors in the modern era shouldn't need internship because they have a term or two for voters to reference already, hence the selected date range for when it goes out of use.

    With regards to lack of candidates, I think recent elections bode well for the candidate pool. If the competition is ever lacking that just means less confident members will put themselves out there. But even if there were 0 candidates for Intern it would not harm the CdeC operation in any way, as with 0 Interns you have exactly the same system as we have right now. Internship is there for the benefit of the intern and by transition the Curia, not to do anything magnificent for the day-to-day operations of the CdeC, at least not directly.
    Whoops, sorry about that, I thought it was about the councilors as when you said requirements you didn't specify, so my mind jumped to the CdeC requirements. Ok then, Your proposal has my support again
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    Default Re: [Amendment] CdeC Interns

    Support. Very nice concept.
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    Default Re: [Amendment] CdeC Interns

    Support

  16. #16
    Romanos IV's Avatar The 120th Article, § 4
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    Default Re: [Amendment] CdeC Interns

    Support!
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    Acco's Avatar Дијана
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    Default Re: [Amendment] CdeC Interns

    Support. Interesting concept.
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  18. #18
    Legio's Avatar EMPRESS OF ALL THINGS
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    Default Re: [Amendment] CdeC Interns

    cdec support

  19. #19
    The Hedge Knight's Avatar Fierce When Cornered
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    Default Re: [Amendment] CdeC Interns

    Support. Would be interesting.

  20. #20
    Lysimachus's Avatar Spirit Cleric
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    Default Re: [Amendment] CdeC Interns

    I want to be part of AL's OP. Support.

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