TURTLEMOD:REVOLUTION for TATW3.2(patch10/28/12)(quickstart addon 11/10/12)

[Feadhel]

Trying this for the first time as the High Elves, and loving it. Great work!

[Jake Armitage]

Congratulations for your mod, alleycat. True that feedback is minimal, but your work is really well planned. Downloaded last patch, I'll tell how it is. Anyhow have to thank you deeply.

[miskin]

First of all, congratulations for your mod. I've been playing as High Elves and at turn 32. Second barracks event passed 2 turns and i can only train light elven archers which consists of 10 soldiers at huge unit size. My question is; is this normal or did I do sth wrong with installing?

Edit: turn 62, last barrack event passed and still can't recruit anything other than light elven archers. I also noticed that castles that pass population limit can be upgraded but, cities can't.

[Feadhel]

I have a similar question -- at turn 118 I can still only train the 10 light archers. Can't even train the balistae even though I've built the buildings. I also have wondered if I've done something wrong? It's less than ten years from Mordor's big army event, and I don't feel very ready for it..

I have enjoyed how the smaller units impact the game.

[alleycat]

you can see recruitment in these 2 files
data>export_desc_buildings and data>world>map>base descr_regions
You'll see high elf recruitment is mostly in mithlond and imaldaris. though you should have a unit of high elf swords available every ten years or so through baracks. 90% of elf/dwarf recruitment is still through barracks. if you look at mithlond in desc_regions you'll see this
Mithlond_Province
Mithlond
egypt
English_Rebels
100 110 100
crusade, coast, huge_city, large_town, large_city, city, elf
elf is my indicator for elf military recruitment and the other new indicators huge_city, large_town, large_city, city tell you that this settlement can be fully ugraded, you'll get eldar spears here after 10,000 population with the required barracks.
Forlindon_Province
Forlindon
poland
English_Rebels
200 110 200
coast, no_brigands, elf
5
1
now for example this province has elf recruitment but can't upgrade past town level.
in the export_desc_building do a search for egypt and you'll soon find your units. you can remove the hidden resource requirements if you want more recruitment(the red stuff). removing this is save game compatible if you need a little help getting the feeling for the mod. also remember many places won't grow past 400 population for the elves
recruit_pool "Elf Archer2" 1 0.03 1 0 requires factions { egypt, } and region_religion orthodox 50 and hidden_resource elf
I downloaded the patch and everything seems to be in order to allow for recruitment the way it was intended.

[Feadhel]

Thanks for the detailed reply. But I was never able to recruit anything but light archers anywhere for the High Elves. Have you actually played that faction and seen that it is working as intended on your end? If so, I must've done something wrong when I installed..

[alleycat]

OMG. I forgot to compile the old patch into the new. well thats what you get with a hack. I'll get a new patch up pronto.
edit. I put back up the first patch, If you install one and then put the second over that things will be fine. I'll compile a new one tonight.very sorry

[alleycat]

OMG. I forgot to compile the old patch into the new. well thats what you get with a hack. I'll get a new patch up pronto.
edit. I put back up the first patch, If you install one and then put the second over that things will be fine. I'll compile a new one tonight.very sorry

Actually nix that.( I haven't slept much) all the files in the old patch get replaced in the new patch so that won't matter, let me test tonight

[Feadhel]

Thanks!

It has been very interesting seeing what can be done with only your generals' units, the two Elven Archers units you get at start, and whatever Light Archers you can muster. It turns out you can do a lot more with them than you'd think.

But I would like to get the other guys too.

[Feadhel]

Alleycat reminded me via PM that I was supposed to delete map.rwm

So that may be the problem for anyone else having this same issue.

[miskin]

Alleycat reminded me via PM that I was supposed to delete map.rwm

So that may be the problem for anyone else having this same issue.

[Feadhel]

I don't know how many people have tried this sub-mod, but there's a lot to recommend it. In vanilla TATW, and also some other submods, if you play the HE, you will find that there's not much to do early on. By splitting the rebels into small factions, this mod creates a number of new opportunities, and also dangers, for the player.

On the plus side, the HE players forces will be smaller, but much more effective in combat most of the time with their extra HPs (though there are times when you pull a mismatch and all those extra hit points do you no good at all).

Making for an extra challenge -- as the HEs, you may have grown accustomed to the area around Mithlond being a sleepy place where nothing happens. In vanilla, you can easily get away with leaving those cities defended very lightly. Well, not so with Turtle Mod. The extra rebel factions actually will come gunning for your cities if you don't defend them. Which means that you can't devote quite as many forces over near the Misty Mountains as you'd probably like.. which means you can't steamroll through the orcs like you may be used to.

Also, the rebel factions will make alliances with your allies, which will cause you trouble should you decide you want to take one of them on while it has the favor of your other allies. As hard is it may seem to believe, not all of your allies will choose you over the rebel faction. (I don't know what is wrong with Aragorn -- he's married to my daughter but he still takes the Coastal Barbarians side over me when they invade Mithlond?!?!?!)

Obviously, this creates another layer of complexity.

For my money, Turtle Mod is the first Sub Mod I've found that increases the enjoyment of playing the HEs. I highly recommend it.

[minty13]

Yeah playing with dale is the same. You have the Rhovonian freemen who are allied with you who make expansion more complicated. Do you try work with them vs Rhun...or wait for rhun to take their cities and then take them back yourself..or declare war on them and risk your alliances.

In the end it didn't matter as SE and Rohan did poorly vs Mordor and Isengaard but i was having fun until i noticed this.

I tried another game with Vanilla and having your opponents with 4 times your army by turn 20-30 is fine when you elves but as men it's crazy. Having to think rather than just use the blitzkrieg tactics is far more fun.

[Bloodly]

*base fertility lowered in most places
How could it be much lower? Most places in vanilla have 1% or 0.5 base. For it to be 0 is....

Fertility decrease for dwarf, elf, landless noble
What's a 'landless noble'?

*Got AI Isengard to sometimes not attack rohan in first 8 turns
Just set their standings with each other to 'Neutral' rather than 'Abysmal', so both AIs aren't clawing to kill each other.

* eliminated many command stars.
What does this mean? Starting out stars, command star growth?

Big question: how effective are spy tactics? Even if you disapprove for them killing generals, taking places by revolt+kill should still have a place.

You say you've added lots of vices and virtues. What I fear are whether certain standard ones are still in place. Are the generals in this place going to be a bunch of drunkards, for instance?

Lots of 'slave' factions, you say. Did you remember to give them money such that they can actually do stuff rather than just sit there? I only ask because I've been messing with the vanilla slave faction. They need a massive amount because they have so much debt. Even then, there are issues.

[Feadhel]

You say you've added lots of vices and virtues. What I fear are whether certain standard ones are still in place. Are the generals in this place going to be a bunch of drunkards, for instance?

I can answer this one for High Elves -- you don't get the drunkards that I've seen, but most of your generals will become Extravagant and Dubious. I could maybe go with Extravagant for HEs, but Dubious? Wish I could nix that one.

[kaiser1993]

Just given this a try, and I gotta say that you have done a great job.
Turtle gameplay for the win

[alleycat]

Thankyou all for the kind words
@Feadhel Trait frequency is easy to fix. open export_descr_character_traits and do a search for Trait Corrupt and double or triple the number after the word threshold. theres other ways but this is a simple quickfix and should be save-game compatible.
@ bloody
Spy stuff is unchanged and could have a larger effect. Landless-noble is a slip-shot rating system I threw in to help give the kings line dominate breeding potential. Many traits awarding command stars now give you something else. The slave factions are actually regular factions with limited abilities. desc_strat faction standing have little to do with making factions not attack each other. Thankyou for your interest.

[Feadhel]

Thanks alleycat. I think I'll just use the ~ method because it only really bothers me when Elrond and his kids get the trait. Or Glorfindel. Otherwise, it's Ok -- I just think of it as them spending money on silly frilly things that they shouldn't have, like expensive wallpaper or poetry readings, or suchlike.

[Jake Armitage]

@Faedhel: may you tell me what's the "~ method"? I'm quite able to self-modding but never heard 'bout that. thanks.
By the way did not try last patch 'cause always give me crash at the begginning of third turn; did not examine logs, 'cause preferred to continue a campaign in play. Anyhow think it's my problem 'cause have many files messed up and should reinstall everything from beggining

[alleycat]

~method= console_command remove_trait cheat