Military Career In Byzantium

**strife1013** · August 22, 2010, 01:23 PM

What are the triggers that causes rank increases for this trait? I've read the EDA file but still unsure. I think the highest I've ever gotten was Tourmarches and than he died of old age.

**bɑne** · August 22, 2010, 01:44 PM

Why the

? Afaik the career link boosts byzantium as other factions don't have it so even the lowest level is a plus. That said I believe heroic and major victories play an important role.

**Fair Prince** · August 22, 2010, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by bane_tw

Why the

? Afaik the career link boosts byzantium as other factions don't have it so even the lowest level is a plus. That said I believe heroic and major victories play an important role.

I'm still not sure if the Bizzies deserve this boost, considering they also have their own military rank system through ancillaries.
I know bane you're against the idea of removing that (we talked about it before) but I'd be interested in what the others think...

**bɑne** · August 22, 2010, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by Fair Prince

I'm still not sure if the Bizzies deserve this boost, considering they also have their own military rank system through ancillaries.
I know bane you're against the idea of removing that (we talked about it before) but I'd be interested in what the others think...

Well... to be honest, then I'd say digg up the old topic or at least sum it up

Thats half of the discussion already handled

As I said then instead of removing their boost others should be added to equal everything up.

**Fair Prince** · August 22, 2010, 05:08 PM

There you go: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=366939

I also mentioned the idea of creating some faction-specific military ranks, and guess I'll make them once I get into the traits and ancillaries project. However, I'm not sure what should be the equivalent of these 'Military Career in Byzantium' traits for the other factions.
Some ideas perhaps?

**strife1013** · August 22, 2010, 03:07 PM

Thanks bane.
And the reason for the thumps down was because my guy died. I love the military career traits! Awesome idea! It would be cool to see other factions get their 'own' too since it does help boost this faction, already being a superpower and very rich who knows if they 'need' it. I know adding it to other factions would take forever but still would be cool nonetheless.

**Meneth** · August 22, 2010, 03:32 PM

Here you go:

Code:

; BYZANTINE CAREER TRIGGERS

Trigger Career_start
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition EndedInSettlement
and SettlementName Constantinople
and IsGeneral
and FactionType byzantium
and not IsFactionLeader
and Trait Military_Career_In_Byzantium = 0

Affects Military_Career_In_Byzantium 1 Chance 100
;----------------------------------------------------

Trigger Comes_to_Hiliarches
WhenToTest CharacterTurnStart

Condition IsGeneral
       and not IsFactionLeader
       and FactionType byzantium
       and Trait Military_Career_In_Byzantium = 1


Affects Military_Career_In_Byzantium 1 Chance 100
;----------------------------------------------------

Trigger Hiliarches_to_Taxiarches
WhenToTest CharacterTurnStart

Condition IsGeneral
       and not IsFactionLeader
       and FactionType byzantium
       and Trait Military_Career_In_Byzantium = 2


Affects Military_Career_In_Byzantium 1 Chance 100
;----------------------------------------------------

Trigger Taxiarches_to_Droungarios
WhenToTest CharacterTurnStart

Condition IsGeneral
       and not IsFactionLeader
       and FactionType byzantium
       and Trait Military_Career_In_Byzantium = 3
 

Affects Military_Career_In_Byzantium 1 Chance 100
;----------------------------------------------------

Trigger Droungarios_to_Merarches
WhenToTest CharacterTurnStart

Condition IsGeneral
       and not IsFactionLeader
       and FactionType byzantium
       and Trait Military_Career_In_Byzantium = 4
       and Trait GoodCommander >= 1

Affects Military_Career_In_Byzantium 1 Chance 100
;----------------------------------------------------
Trigger Merarches_to_Tourmarches
WhenToTest CharacterTurnStart

Condition IsGeneral
       and not IsFactionLeader
       and FactionType byzantium
       and Trait Military_Career_In_Byzantium = 5
       and Trait GoodCommander >= 2

Affects Military_Career_In_Byzantium 1 Chance 100
;----------------------------------------------------
Trigger Tourmarches_to_Strategos
WhenToTest CharacterTurnStart

Condition IsGeneral
       and not IsFactionLeader
       and FactionType byzantium
       and Trait Military_Career_In_Byzantium = 6
       and Trait GoodCommander >= 3


Affects Military_Career_In_Byzantium 1 Chance 100
;----------------------------------------------------
Trigger Strategos_to_Sevastos
WhenToTest CharacterTurnStart

Condition IsGeneral
       and not IsFactionLeader
       and FactionType byzantium
       and Trait Military_Career_In_Byzantium = 7
       and Trait GoodCommander >= 4
 

Affects Military_Career_In_Byzantium 1 Chance 100
;----------------------------------------------------
Trigger Sevastos_to_Magistrus
WhenToTest CharacterTurnStart

Condition IsGeneral
       and not IsFactionLeader
       and FactionType byzantium
       and Trait Military_Career_In_Byzantium = 8
       and Trait GoodCommander >= 5
 

Affects Military_Career_In_Byzantium 1 Chance 100

;----------------------------------------------------

;Trigger Career_Get
;WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
;
;Condition IsGeneral
;and FactionType byzantium
;and Trait Military_Career_In_Byzantium >= 1
;and not IsFactionLeader
;
;Affects Military_Career_In_Byzantium 1 Chance 100
;---------------------------------------------------
Trigger Heir_Become_Emperor_Remove_Rank
 WhenToTest CharacterTurnStart

 Condition IsFactionLeader
       and FactionType byzantium
       and AgentType = family
       and Trait Military_Career_In_Byzantium <= 8
       and Trait Military_Career_In_Byzantium > 0
 
 
Affects Military_Career_In_Byzantium -68 Chance 100
;------------------------------------------

Edit:
So in 3 turns, a Byzantine general will be a Droungarios, and increases after that depends on how good a general he is.

**bɑne** · August 22, 2010, 03:34 PM

So.. whats left is the question what triggers
GoodCommander

and Trait Military_Career_In_Byzantium = 8
and Trait GoodCommander >= 5

**Meneth** · August 22, 2010, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by bane_tw

So.. whats left is the question what triggers
GoodCommander

Give me a minute, loads of triggers for that AFAIK

**Meneth** · August 22, 2010, 03:39 PM

Here you go, as I said, loads of triggers:

Code:

;============= MILITARISTIC TRIGGERS ============ 
;------------------------------------------
Trigger StandardBattle_AnyVictory_MilitaryInclination
 WhenToTest PostBattle

 Condition IsGeneral
       and WonBattle
       and BattleOdds < 2.1
       and Trait MilitaryInclination = 1

 Affects GoodCommander 1 Chance 40 

;------------------------------------------
Trigger StandardBattle_AnyVictory_NotMilitaryInclination
 WhenToTest PostBattle

 Condition IsGeneral
       and WonBattle
       and BattleOdds < 2.1
       and not Trait MilitaryInclination = 1

 Affects GoodCommander 1 Chance 20 

;------------------------------------------
Trigger StandardBattle_ClearVictory
 WhenToTest PostBattle

 Condition IsGeneral
       and WonBattle
       and BattleSuccess = clear
       and I_ConflictType Normal
       and BattleOdds < 1.75

 Affects GoodCommander 1 Chance 50 
 Affects Military_Edu 1 Chance 5

;------------------------------------------
Trigger StandardBattle_CrushingVictory
 WhenToTest PostBattle

 Condition IsGeneral
       and WonBattle
       and BattleSuccess = crushing
       and I_ConflictType Normal
       and BattleOdds < 1.51

 Affects GoodCommander 1 Chance 85 
 Affects Military_Edu 1 Chance 15

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Battle_HeroicBattleCommander
 WhenToTest PostBattle

 Condition IsGeneral
       and WonBattle
       and PercentageEnemyKilled > 25
       and BattleOdds < 0.51

 Affects GoodCommander 1 Chance 100
 Affects GoodCommander 1 Chance 75
 Affects Military_Edu 1 Chance 20 

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Battle_Ambush
 WhenToTest PostBattle

 Condition IsGeneral
       and WonBattle
       and I_ConflictType SuccessfulAmbush
       and BattleOdds < 1.51

 Affects GoodCommander 1 Chance 25 
 Affects Military_Edu 1 Chance 50

;------------------------------------------

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Battle_BrilliantTacticalCommander
 WhenToTest PostBattle

 Condition IsGeneral
       and WonBattle
       and BattleSuccess > close
       and BattleOdds < 0.70
       and PercentageOfArmyKilled < 20

 Affects Military_Edu 1 Chance 80
 Affects GoodCommander 1 Chance 60

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Battle_Siege_Won_MilitaryInclination
 WhenToTest PostBattle

 Condition IsGeneral
       and WonBattle
       and BattleSuccess > average
       and I_ConflictType Siege
       and BattleOdds < 1.75
       and Trait MilitaryInclination = 1

 Affects GoodCommander 1 Chance 40 

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Battle_Siege_Won_NotMilitaryInclination
 WhenToTest PostBattle

 Condition IsGeneral
       and WonBattle
       and BattleSuccess > average
       and I_ConflictType Siege
       and BattleOdds < 1.75
       and not Trait MilitaryInclination = 1

 Affects GoodCommander 1 Chance 20 

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Building_MilitaryInclination_City
 WhenToTest GovernorBuildingCompleted

 Condition SettlementBuildingFinished > city_watch

 Affects GoodCommander 1 Chance 25
 Affects Military_Edu 1 Chance 10 

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Building_MilitaryInclination_Castle_Barracks
 WhenToTest GovernorBuildingCompleted

 Condition SettlementBuildingFinished > mustering_hall
       and Trait MilitaryInclination = 1

 Affects GoodCommander 1 Chance 33
 Affects Military_Edu 1 Chance 10 

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Building_MilitaryInclination_Castle_Archery
 WhenToTest GovernorBuildingCompleted

 Condition SettlementBuildingFinished > bowyer
       and Trait MilitaryInclination = 1

 Affects GoodCommander 1 Chance 20
 Affects Military_Edu 1 Chance 8 

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Building_MilitaryInclination_Castle_Archery
 WhenToTest GovernorBuildingCompleted

 Condition SettlementBuildingFinished > stables
       and Trait MilitaryInclination = 1

 Affects GoodCommander 1 Chance 20
 Affects Military_Edu 1 Chance 8 

;------------------------------------------

;------------------------------------------
Trigger StandardBattle_AnyLoss_Trigger
 WhenToTest PostBattle

 Condition IsGeneral
       and not WonBattle
       and BattleOdds > 1.0

 Affects BadCommander 1 Chance 33 

;------------------------------------------
Trigger CrappyBattleCommander
 WhenToTest PostBattle

 Condition IsGeneral
       and not WonBattle
       and PercentageOfArmyKilled < 50
       and BattleOdds > 2.0

 Affects BadCommander 2 Chance 75

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Battle_Siege_Lost
 WhenToTest PostBattle

 Condition IsGeneral
       and not WonBattle
       and BattleSuccess > average
       and I_ConflictType Siege
       and BattleOdds > 0.8

 Affects BadCommander 1 Chance 85 

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Withdraws
 WhenToTest PreBattleWithdrawal

 Condition WasAttacker

 Affects BadCommander 1 Chance 85 

;------------------------------------------
Trigger V0190_Withdraw_Before_Battle_Even_Odds_VnV_Trigger
 WhenToTest PreBattleWithdrawal

 Condition IsGeneral
       and I_WithdrawsBeforeBattle
       and BattleOdds > 0.5
       and BattleOdds < 1.75

 Affects BadCommander 1 Chance 33 

;--------------------------------------------

;------------------------------------------
;********* OFFERED FOR ADOPTION *********
;------------------------------------------
Trigger Worthy_Of_Adoption_Military_Trigger1
 WhenToTest OfferedForAdoption

 Condition Trait MilitaryInclination = 1

 Affects NaturalMilitarySkill 1 Chance 8 
 Affects GoodCommander 1 Chance 50
 Affects GoodCommander 1 Chance 25
 Affects Brave 3 Chance 17 
 Affects Disciplinarian 2 Chance 17 

;------------------------------------------

;********* OFFERED FOR MARRIAGE *********
;cultural traits for marriage + inclination
;------------------------------------------
Trigger Worthy_Of_Marriage_General_Military
 WhenToTest OfferedForMarriage

 Condition Trait MilitaryInclination = 1

 Affects NaturalMilitarySkill 1 Chance 8 
 Affects GoodCommander 3 Chance 33 
 Affects Brave 1 Chance 17 
 Affects NightBattleCapable 1 Chance 10 
 Affects BattleScarred 1 Chance 17 
 Affects BattleChivalry 1 Chance 33 

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Worthy_Of_Marriage_General_Governor
 WhenToTest OfferedForMarriage

 Condition Trait GovernorInclination = 1

 Affects GoodCommander 1 Chance 33 
 Affects GoodAdministrator 6 Chance 17 
 Affects Loyal 1 Chance 33 

;------------------------------------------

;********* MAN OF THE HOUR ADOPTION TRIGGERS ********* 
;------------------------------------------
Trigger Lesser_General_Adoption_1_VnV_Trigger
 WhenToTest LesserGeneralOfferedForAdoption

 Affects NaturalMilitarySkill 1 Chance 8 
 Affects GoodCommander 1 Chance 85 
 Affects Brave 3 Chance 17 
 Affects Loyal 3 Chance 17 

;------------------------------------------

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Lesser_General_Adoption_3_VnV_Trigger
 WhenToTest LesserGeneralOfferedForAdoption

 Affects BattleScarred 1 Chance 17 
 Affects Intelligent 1 Chance 8 
 Affects GoodCommander 1 Chance 40 
 Affects GoodCommander 1 Chance 33 

;------------------------------------------

;------------------------------------------
Trigger governor_building_castle_command
 WhenToTest GovernorBuildingCompleted

 Condition SettlementBuildingFinished >= castle 

 Affects GoodCommander 1 Chance 20

;------------------------------------------
Trigger governor_building_smith
 WhenToTest GovernorBuildingCompleted

 Condition SettlementBuildingFinished >= armourer 

 Affects GoodCommander 1 Chance 5

;------------------------------------------
Trigger governor_building_castlesmith
 WhenToTest GovernorBuildingCompleted

 Condition SettlementBuildingFinished >= c_armourer 

 Affects GoodCommander 1 Chance 10

;------------------------------------------
Trigger random_birth14
 WhenToTest CharacterComesOfAge

 Affects GoodCommander 1 Chance 2 
 Affects BadCommander 1 Chance 2 
 Affects LogisticalSkill 1 Chance 6 
 Affects MathematicsSkill 1 Chance 2 

;------------------------------------------
Trigger random_birth26
 WhenToTest CharacterComesOfAge

 Affects BadTaxman 1 Chance 2 
 Affects GoodCommander 1 Chance 4 
 Affects Xenophobia 1 Chance 2 

;------------------------------------------
Trigger random_AI_birth1
 WhenToTest CharacterComesOfAge

 Condition IsGeneral
       and IsFactionAIControlled

 Affects GoodCommander 1 Chance 50

BadCommander included, as it's an anti-trait of GoodCommander.

**bɑne** · August 22, 2010, 03:43 PM

So aside from a number of birth related or building increases: fight and win heroic battles, get goodcommander trait increases and then advance in the military ranks.

**bɑne** · August 22, 2010, 05:20 PM

Lets start with that one.

Originally Posted by GreatKhan

Couldn't someone create a ranking for the army commanders. Rather than allow armies of maximum of 20 units, why not have a Sargeant with 5-6 units a Captain with 10-12 units and a Marshall or Contstable with 20 units. Sargeants and Captains can be recruited, but Marshall/Constable has to be promoted.

Imho revising a system for the TO might be the easiest starting point. I doubt the ranking systems of other factions are that easily to find. I remember you mentioned making a general one but the TO and the CS merit their own specialised one in my eyes.

**Alpha Zeke** · August 22, 2010, 05:26 PM

Jw, is there a limit on how many labeled generals can exist? IE. General, Conquistador, etc.

This system could be implemented, but the capitains/marshals etc. could have some sort of traits that when recruited put their moral boost under a general and above a captain. Then through anc's they could be promoted, (But for much higher commanders a new general with a new label would be needed).

Opinions?

**bɑne** · August 22, 2010, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by Historydude

Jw, is there a limit on how many labeled generals can exist? IE. General, Conquistador, etc.

Actually we are starting smaller - I don't think the Byzantium characters are labeled and thats something that can be done after the traits are found and named.

This system could be implemented, but the capitains/marshals etc. could have some sort of traits that when recruited put their moral boost under a general and above a captain. Then through anc's they could be promoted, (But for much higher commanders a new general with a new label would be needed).

Opinions?

I think we should keep the anc and trait system seperate. Problem is finding rank names that actually had widespread use. Brigadier generals didn't run around in the early medieval times after all. Something that looks promising after putting the idea of pure military ranks aside:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_a...ween_languages

**Fair Prince** · August 22, 2010, 06:10 PM

Well, I guess a simple, ordinary military rank system could work for all factions, with the following ranks for example:
Lieutenant (initial rank, it would be pointless to go below it)
Captain
Major
Colonel
General (top rank)

The promotion could be based on command, loyalty and authority.
...or these ranks sound too futuristic?

**bɑne** · August 22, 2010, 06:26 PM

I'm not happy with the "modern" touch. Stolen from elsewhere and losely connected to my wikipedia link:

So the King would lead the "national" army. Under him, the Dukes led the individual tribal "Battles" (divisions), which contained the contingents under the Counts from his Duchy.

So for example, at the Battle of the Unstrut (1075), Henry IV led the entire royal army and also personally commanded the division of Franconians (the King held that Duchy at the time); the Dukes of Swabia, Lotharingia, & Bavaria each commanded a "tribal" division from their Duchy, in which served the Counts from each Duchy.

As far as actual "ranks" go, I'm not sure there were formal ranks, at least in the Early Middle Ages, except for Constable, Marshal, etc. Even "Sergeant" wasn't exactly a "rank" as it is now.

And another from wiki

High command in medieval armies

The king’s army was placed under the command of the High Constable as commander-in-chief. The High Constable had authority over the local constables, commanders of the garrisons of major castles. The High Constable had the help of the Field Marshal, an officer that set up the army’s camp. (Marshals acted as chiefs of logistics and were also employed by royal and noble courts.) The High Constable derived his authority over the army from his role of head of the Cavalry.

**Fair Prince** · August 22, 2010, 06:56 PM

The problem is that currently the count, duke and constable ranks (titles) are allocated through ancillaries, and ancillaries have no effect on traits. Moreover, unlike the military ranks, those royal and noble titles (earl, margrave, duke, etc.) weren't awarded on merit, and weren't even used in most of the countries (muslim ones, for example).

So, I guess they should only be implemented as hereditary titles (ancillaries), not military ranks (traits).
What do you think?

**Hadrian I** · August 22, 2010, 07:19 PM

Why not, use the lower titles then, such as Ridder (Knight.) As a trait which is recivable for the catholic fedual system, in the eailer ages ? So they too can also increase their military career.
So you would have a Knight leading your army, instead of a Duke, or General. It's just a thought from the top of my head, I do not know if it can be implemented... Or as stated above if the titles are already used for ancillaries.