Phalanx problem with RTW v. 1.5

**Somatophylax** · August 21, 2010, 08:57 PM

The RTW v. 1.5 seems to have a phalanx problem, because in city defense battles the phalanxes can be easily defeated.
Is there some way to solve this problem? Which files can be edited?

**Magic_8_Ball** · August 21, 2010, 09:33 PM

Can you describe the situation better? If you put the phalanxes on the walls, they can't use their pikes or spears. Instead, they pull out daggers. This makes them a lot weaker and can easily be taken down by a unit like a cohort.

**Supermoler** · August 22, 2010, 01:42 AM

If you put to gates and they meet enemy, they go outside

**Consul Napoleon Bonaparte** · August 22, 2010, 06:17 AM

Try locking them on gaurd maybe? I have no clue, doesnt happen for me.

**Lucarius** · August 22, 2010, 08:03 AM

Yes, if you place them on a wall then they use there swords,
but i always place my phalanx behind the gate so... ah you know what happens

**Makus** · August 23, 2010, 07:49 PM

I put mine behind the gate, on the main road to the city center, the city center itself, and, if possible, covering the stairs leading from the walls. Phalanxes are natural for street defenses

**Somatophylax** · August 23, 2010, 08:29 PM

Ok, I thank all the answers.
However, we can image this question or situation: four militia hoplites in "V" formation in the city gates against a full army of poeni infantry. What is the possible result? In these conditions, I am easily defeated. So, what is the problem? Is the quality of the unit so important when there are city bottlenecks?

My question can be seen on these pictures which I posted in "Imageshack.us":

(Note: I play as the macedonians)

I - The macedonian army is waiting the carthaginian attack: http://img819.imageshack.us/i/rome1.jpg/

II - The poeni infantry army is marching to the battle: http://img830.imageshack.us/i/rome2.jpg/

III - The battle begins: http://img835.imageshack.us/i/rome3.jpg/

IV - The carthaginian pressure over the militia hoplite: http://img838.imageshack.us/i/rome4.jpg/

V - The militia hoplite is broken by the carthaginian army: http://img52.imageshack.us/i/rome5o.jpg/

VI - The battle is critical for the macedonians: http://img832.imageshack.us/i/rome6.jpg/

VII - The units are in panic and fleeing from the gates: http://img413.imageshack.us/i/rome7.jpg/

**Genius of the Restoration** · August 23, 2010, 09:18 PM

Well, Poeni Infantry are much better than Militia Hoplites, so they will break quickly

**Somatophylax** · August 23, 2010, 09:33 PM

Ok, Genius, I thank you. One more time, I thank all other players which posted here.
So, despite the bottleneck principle in city defense, the quality of the troops is very important.

**Genius of the Restoration** · August 24, 2010, 02:45 AM

To put it simply, yes. What would help in that situation though is to your hoplite units at a greater angle from the wall, they look a little flat at the moment, which give the advantage to the better unit. If you make it so you're hitting the Poeni from the side, you can force them to break formation and fight with swords, which is more helpful to you. An example of what I mean is in my Thrace campaign thread. Look at the battle to take Sparta and how the Militia Hoplites take them down (with some help). The Spartans were advacing in Phalanx formation to the unit on the left, when the Milita Hoplites at the top hit them from the side. This causes the unit to wheel to try to face the enemy, but when they tried this with the other unit so close they hit it. As a result, they break formation and fight with swords. Needless to say, the 194 Militia Hoplites I brought to the battle wouldn't stand long at all against a full unit of 160 Spartans in Phalanx mode. It pays to break up the phalanx whenever you can by forcing them to wheel into another unit. Does that help?

edit: also might help to put your archers near the wall on one of the sides so that they can fire without the risk of hitting your troops! Putting them on the side also makes them fire into the side arc of a unit, which reduces the shield defence of the Poeni Infantry, very important as they have the large (5 def) class shields.

**Drakedeath** · August 24, 2010, 04:11 PM

Your formation is assembled wrong. Make it more of a sharp V, with the two units meeting on their far flanks and their other flanks against the wall, with both sides pointing towards and surrounding the gate. Optionally, you can position a third hoplite directly in front of the gate to slow down the advance or whatever.

**Somatophylax** · September 01, 2010, 08:36 PM

**Genius of the Restoration** · September 01, 2010, 09:57 PM

Nice going

**Travus** · September 02, 2010, 04:11 AM

I see you have cav in this fight. In this situation, I like to put my cav at the side gates (ones that aren't being rammed) and sally them out to get behind the enemy that are assaulting my main gate. So, while they are fighting at the gate, I can crush the enemy units that break. I don't like anyone escaping especially the enemy general unit >

In a diferent situation, say for example the enemy has numerous rams, but I don't have enough defenders to cover all of the breach points. I'll again sally my cav out the side gates (ones that aren't being rammed) and harass the units with the rams before they breach my walls. This causes them to drop the ram and attack my cav. At that point, I retreat my cav to a safe distance. Then repeat the same tactic on another ram carryng unit. This serves two purposes: 1) a lot of the time when they drop the ram, they won't pick it up again (one less ram hitting my walls). 2) They wear themselves down chasing my cav, thus making it easier to kill them when they finally breach my walls/gate. However, keep in mind that this tactic will also eventually tire your cav units out. At that point, retreat your cav back inside your walls to recover (using a side gate of course).

I've foiled many seiges on my towns where the enemy had vastly superior numbers using this tactic. Like everyone else on the forums has stated, this shows how silly the AI is when assaulting towns.

**TitaniumGladius** · September 14, 2010, 10:21 AM

This isn't a problem, with patch 1.5 SEGA have intentionally weakened the phalanx units, because people reported that it was unrealistically powerful. Now you can break a medium quality phalanx with a decent cavalry charge (even if its frontally). Also be aware, if you have other units moving through your pahalanx this will distrupt their formation and make it easier to break. Moreover if the pahalanx unit is moving (especially turning) when it is attacked then it will break more easily too.

I think the changes are welcome, because in 1.0 the pahalnx was too powerful. You could beat a unit of urban cohort, with hoplite malitia. As the greeks lost so badly to the romans in real history this seems unrealistic.

**Parzival2211** · September 14, 2010, 07:13 PM

Wow, the slight difference of positioning the units in the V turned the battle around completely. Quite impressive!

Realistically, this doesn't really make sense, since a phalanx is always strongest if it faces the enemies head on. In fact, the attackers could just push the spears/sarissas aside in that angle, but well, after all, it's just a game, right?

**KnightOfPortugal** · September 15, 2010, 09:55 AM

Wrong angle, and in that case, Militia Hoplites get butchered by Poeni infantries (which is one of the best phalanx units around)
A sharper angle would work.