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Thread: Early Campaign Conquest Guide

  1. #61

    Default Re: Early Campaign Conquest Guide

    I tried a spanish campaign once, but found it really boring. There's simply nothing in their tech tree that appeals to me. I like their starting position though. Iberian peninsula + Tingi is pretty good money and quite defensible too
    A Proud Diloist


    -Finland rules
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  2. #62
    shikaka's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Early Campaign Conquest Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Genius of the Restoration
    You get Iberian Infantry. A step up from Town Watch, though not by much. You also get access to Skirmishers as your basic ranged unit. You get Round Shield Cav though, so it's not all bad.

    I think this sounds a bit worse then they actually are.

    Iberians are OK for level 2 (though underpowered to RL), if they pick up XP, and you upgrade their armor, you can win against principes easily.
    IF you have a few roundshields to attack the back of the romans.

    Initial (numantia - narbo - balearics - tingi) conquest can be done with these only.

    I use mainly this army (like 8-10 iberians + 6-8 roundshields), and only change to a stronger one (8-10 bull warriors + 6-8 longshields) when I encountered legions. I don't buy town watch/javelin/scutarii/naked fanatic units at all, and usually build the barracks until a point where I can retrain iberians everywhere.

    There is no legion, what 10 bulls, 6 longshields and 4 balearics cannot take down...



    Bad thing about an iberian campaign:
    - limited unit roster
    - squalor problems in fast growing cities
    It just feels bad to exterminate every time. I also don't like that an iberian campaign is basicly an early carthagian one, without elephants...

  3. #63
    Genius of the Restoration's Avatar You beaut and magical
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    Default Re: Early Campaign Conquest Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by shikaka View Post
    I think this sounds a bit worse then they actually are.

    Iberians are OK for level 2 (though underpowered to RL), if they pick up XP, and you upgrade their armor, you can win against principes easily.
    While they can be useful, they are still one of the weakest units out there and the weakest level two unit in the game. Sure, they can be good, but any unit can be good, and I wouldn't go so far as to say that every unit is good. Iberian Inf are clearly below par, and even though they can be useful, they're nowhere near as useful as the other level two units around the map.

    If only barbarian factions had a better way to deal with increasing squalor and unhappiness...

  4. #64
    shikaka's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Early Campaign Conquest Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Genius of the Restoration View Post
    While they can be useful, they are still one of the weakest units out there and the weakest level two unit in the game. Sure, they can be good, but any unit can be good, and I wouldn't go so far as to say that every unit is good. Iberian Inf are clearly below par, and even though they can be useful, they're nowhere near as useful as the other level two units around the map.

    If only barbarian factions had a better way to deal with increasing squalor and unhappiness...

    Level 2?
    I don't like miltia hoplites/phalanx. Probably just me, but I find iberian more useful...

    I am thinking of upping them a bit, iberia is the place where the gladius comes from after all.



    for squalor, only a bit of imagination from CA would have been needed. Like easily attainable extra retinues for governors, some buildings with yearly/monthly settings like the apache tribal dance in Kingdoms.


    The vandals didn't have problems ruling over Carthage. They didn't add anything new to it however...
    Last edited by shikaka; September 30, 2010 at 03:26 AM.

  5. #65
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    Default Re: Early Campaign Conquest Guide

    The vandals didn't have problems ruling over Carthage. They didn't add anything new to it however...
    To be fair, the Vandals were long after Rome's timeframe, however.
    I beat back their first attack with ease. Properly employed, E's can be very deadly, deadlier even than P's and Z's, though they're not as lethal as Paula Abdul or Right Said Fred.
    ~ Miaowara Tomokato, Samurai Cat Goes to the Movies

  6. #66
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    Default Re: Early Campaign Conquest Guide

    Yet again great tips and tricks for the trade!

  7. #67
    shikaka's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Early Campaign Conquest Guide

    BARBARIAN INVASIONS
    SARMATIANS



    I hope Genius doesn't mind this, but here is a guide to Sarmatians. It can be used (except troops) as a general horde guide too.
    For Sarmatians I mentioned Italian peninsula and the balkans as safe haven. For other factions alternatives are: Iberia (if your aims are in Iberia and France) or Britain (if you aims are in France/Britannia).
    Worth mentioning that the AI cheats with rebellions, so WRE will not collapse on it's own!

    When conquering a city which is not of your culture, look at the building browser. It is possible that there are buildings which you will never be able to upgrade, so it will be a constant culture penalty. So look through it, and decide. If a high level arena gives +15% public order, keep. If it gives +5%, destroy. Some things you might consider keeping anyways: Universities and docks. (some barbarians can only build level 1 docks. Consider keepeing level 2-3 docks even with culture penalty)


    Buildings and troops

    Sarmatia has a tech tree which are unique among the playable nations. The units are shared only with the Roxolani, which makes them fresh compared to the germanic barbarians who have lots of similar units.
    In general, Sarmatians are for cavalry or skirmish lovers. They have some quality foot troops (actually 2 ), but in general, their power lies in cavalry.

    Level1 settlement: sarmatians only get runaway slave spearmen. Which should be used only as a peacekeeping force, don't bring them to battle if possible.
    Level2: the next level barracks give slave spearmen +1XP, which means from this time, you shouldn't bring into battle 1XP slave spears. However, they 2 very good units: from archery range they get the Sarmatian virgin archer, which is a great unit, and a keeper throughout the campaign. (fast moving, long range) From stables come the Sarmatian virgin cavalry. It is a very useful, fast cavalry unit, with armorer and temple (pagan shires give XP) they can be useful even late game.
    Level3: well, well: Slave spearmen with 2XP, still not useful. From Stables you get the sarmatian armored archer, which is 2 in one: a good horse archer, but can double up as melee cavalry (they have 20 armor!). From archery range, you get the lovely sarmatian virgin horse archer unit, which is a fast, basic horse archer.
    Level4: from barracks, you finally get something useful, the bosphoros infantry. To be simple: these are the best spears in the whole game! Dependable units, with 22 defense! and 8 armor!. They can rip enemy cavalry apart, and will make a stand against every infantry for a while (so you can rear charge them with cavalry) From stables, you get the alans, a good horse archer and the alan heavy cav.
    Level5: not useful, only sarmatian nobles (ultra heavy cav) and XP here or there.


    This add up to this in my opinion:
    As a _settled_ sarmatian faction, in the beginning you will heavily depend on horses and archers. I have two types of armies. One to guard borders, and one to campaign against enemies.
    The border guard are very mobile, and I use only women: the virgin horse archer and the virgin cavalry. With upgrades, they can handle most enemies. Alternatively you could combine virgin horse archer with sarmatian armored archer. That would work even better, however virgin cavalry is easier to retrain, cheaper and they rack up XP very fast.

    If you want to want to conquer cities and garrison, you have to have lots of heavy cavalry (generals bodyguard and armored archers).
    Sieges are hard, as you can't count on your slave spearmen, while your _foot virgins cannot sap_.
    What this means? This means rams and towers only. However, you will never win a wall with virgin archers who try to melee. Before I have bosphorus spearmen, I usually find myself
    - either hiring 2 veteran legion mercenaries (they are available mostly everywhere) to capture the gates.
    - or sending in half dozen spies who open gates
    When the gates are open, in goes heavy cavalry (if spies opened the gates - then at 3-4 entrances) who capture the plaza.

    Summary:
    - for home defense: armies of sarmatian virgin cavalry and sarmatian virgin horse archers
    - for offensive campaigns: sarmatian armored archer cavalry, generals bodyguard
    If you don't mind losing some mobility, virgin foot archers are great addition always
    Late game:
    - Bosphorus infantry + virgin foot archer + armored archer cavalry, the ultimate combo



    Location
    Keep a mental note where you are. This is a victory objective. Also Pannonia (west) and present day Georgie (east-southeast). Basicly staying where you are can be done (I managed it once) but honestly it is not the best of places. You are in the way of the Vandals (4-5 full stacks) and the Huns (9-10 full stacks). Also, if the huns decide, they can launch two additional hordes which means an other 4-5 stack army (and they usually do that with the Roxolani sometimes with Goths)
    In my opinion, the most economical and sane choice is to horde ASAP!


    How to horde?
    Before you horde, train a few slave spearmen. It is important to have a few non-horde units! When you settle, you will lose all horde units, and often, you are left with general's bodyguard only. To be sure that you have peacekeeping forces after settleing, before hording, be sure to have 6 normal units.
    When you go horde, create 3 stacks. Every stack should have at least 1 family member, at least 2 non-horde unit (these shouldn't fight during your horde campaign, they will be future peacekeepers) and some horde infantry to strom the walls on demand. The rest doesn't matter. If you have something left, use those as strategic reserve to reinforce you stacks, or send them on a separate loot spree in a random direction. (If I settle around Greece, I send my excess stack to Ravenna-Rome to loot)

    OK, where to horde?
    What makes sense is to settle in rich lands, which are not far from the objectives, and pagan if possible. This means: Italian peninsula, southern Balkans (constantinopole, Athens, Thessalonica) and maybe Anatolia.
    I usually pick either Ravenna-Rome-Thermon or Constantinopole-Athens-Thessalonica. Both are good choices. One thing is important: all 3 cities should be sacked at least once before settleing.
    Like sack the 3 greek cities. Siege inmediately again: Settle in Thessalonica, and exterminate Constantinopole and Athens. The 3 sacks and 2 exterminations will give you around 40-50k at least, which is enough to start, also it minimizes the population which could cause unrest.


    Opponents

    In the beginning one of the Romans. They are easy to defeat with horse archers. Later, the hordes: against them, use the former greek walls (sarmatians cannot build just repair) with virgin archers on them, or bridges if you have your quality spearmen.
    Last edited by shikaka; November 14, 2010 at 08:46 AM.

  8. #68

    Default Re: Early Campaign Conquest Guide

    I'm looking forward to the Seleucid one; I tried a campaign with them about 6 weeks ago but failed miserably, due to the central position between Egypt, Pontus, Parthia and Armenia.

    If you can get that one up soon, Mr Corbett, I'll be more than grateful.

    By the way, if you really are Ronnie Corbett, you're awesome!

  9. #69
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    Default Re: Early Campaign Conquest Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Tidybeard View Post
    I'm looking forward to the Seleucid one; I tried a campaign with them about 6 weeks ago but failed miserably, due to the central position between Egypt, Pontus, Parthia and Armenia.

    If you can get that one up soon, Mr Corbett, I'll be more than grateful.

    By the way, if you really are Ronnie Corbett, you're awesome!

    Seleucid's are VERY weak at the start of the game...However if you can survive long enough to at least get to the 24 elephants - chariots - or even Phalanx Pikemen or possibly Levy pikemen (some people like them for their numbers and what not) Its almost clear sailing from then...And once you get Silver Shield and War Elephants + Cata's Its basically GG...

    Just tech up as fast as you can and hold off attacks and conquer when you can...

  10. #70
    shikaka's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Early Campaign Conquest Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Tidybeard View Post
    I'm looking forward to the Seleucid one; I tried a campaign with them about 6 weeks ago but failed miserably, due to the central position between Egypt, Pontus, Parthia and Armenia.

    Turn1:

    - move the troops from Damascus towards Jeruzalem (they will siege the next turn)
    - move your garisson troops from Sardis towards Halicarnassus (-> siege Halicarnassus)
    - siege sidon with the cavalry from Antioch, build a ram, and follow up with infantry from Atioch

    Next turn siege the rest, and exterminate when conquered.
    When Halicarnassus falls, move the remaining troops (and hire the mercs) and move these over to Cyprus, with the ships made in Antioch (maybe Sidon) in the meantime.


    You can capture 4 cities (3 from the 6 egyptian cities) and you are set.



    edit:
    the javelin cavalry is your best bet in the beginning! Use them in high numbers against Egypt.

    edit2:
    of course when 'moving out the garrison' leave 1 unit, preferably some peasants to keep order.
    Also, the Egyptians have a half stack army with a good general (aja? kija?) he will show up soon with a near full stack army.

    Ponthus usually attack your cities with 'the famous Ponthus sh.ite army', like 15 eastern infantry. In the border city, keep 6Xlevy pikes to deal with them at breaches. If you are economically strong (should be after 3-4 exterminations) you might want to bribe the 2 starting cataphracts of Parthia when they attack.
    Last edited by shikaka; November 14, 2010 at 03:52 PM.

  11. #71

    Default Re: Early Campaign Conquest Guide

    Thanks for that! Reppage all round!

  12. #72
    Genius of the Restoration's Avatar You beaut and magical
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    Default Re: Early Campaign Conquest Guide

    An excellent guide shikaka. I haven't played much BI, and never played as the Sarmatians so that was an interesting read. I'd like to put it at the front if that's okay with you.

    @Tidybeard
    I'll get onto that. Been pretty slack of late

    Cheers,
    Ronnie

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    Default Re: Early Campaign Conquest Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Genius of the Restoration View Post
    An excellent guide shikaka. I haven't played much BI, and never played as the Sarmatians so that was an interesting read. I'd like to put it at the front if that's okay with you.
    Of course

    Sarmatians are one of my favs because they have a very unique roster among the playable nations, but not unlimited manpower like vandals and huns.
    Also, if you create a full-virgin army, without general's bodyguard, the army will still be led by a man, actually the only man in your army


    I think I will write a few others too.

    I don't like (and play) the too generic factions (Alemannia-Burgundi-Lombardi) which are all the same, and I consider some too easy to justify a guide (Eastern Rome, Sassanids, Berbers, Huns, Vandals).
    I am thinking of Western Rome, Franks, Celts and Saxons.
    Last edited by shikaka; November 16, 2010 at 05:07 AM.

  14. #74
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    Default Re: Early Campaign Conquest Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by shikaka View Post
    Of course

    Sarmatians are one of my favs because they have a very unique roster among the playable nations, but not unlimited manpower like vandals and huns.
    Also, if you create a full-virgin army, without general's bodyguard, the army will still be led by a man, actually the only man in your army


    I think I will write a few others too.

    I don't like (and play) the too generic factions (Alemannia-Burgundi-Lombardi) which are all the same, and I consider some too easy to justify a guide (Eastern Rome, Sassanids, Berbers, Huns, Vandals).
    I am thinking of Western Rome, Franks, Celts and Saxons.
    Id like to see one as the Celts...they seem to have an interesting roster of troops it seems.

  15. #75
    Genius of the Restoration's Avatar You beaut and magical
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    Default Re: Early Campaign Conquest Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by shikaka View Post
    Of course

    Sarmatians are one of my favs because they have a very unique roster among the playable nations, but not unlimited manpower like vandals and huns.
    Also, if you create a full-virgin army, without general's bodyguard, the army will still be led by a man, actually the only man in your army


    I think I will write a few others too.

    I don't like (and play) the too generic factions (Alemannia-Burgundi-Lombardi) which are all the same, and I consider some too easy to justify a guide (Eastern Rome, Sassanids, Berbers, Huns, Vandals).
    I am thinking of Western Rome, Franks, Celts and Saxons.
    That sounds good mate. I've put the guide at the front of the thread with the others, feel free to expand the range of guides as much as you like.

    Lucky captain hey

  16. #76
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    Default Re: Early Campaign Conquest Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Entropy Judge View Post
    To be fair, the Vandals were long after Rome's timeframe, however.

    Really? They took their land directly from the romans. The romans were still around.

  17. #77
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    Default Re: Early Campaign Conquest Guide

    Referring to the Rome: Total War timeframe, not the Romans themselves.
    I beat back their first attack with ease. Properly employed, E's can be very deadly, deadlier even than P's and Z's, though they're not as lethal as Paula Abdul or Right Said Fred.
    ~ Miaowara Tomokato, Samurai Cat Goes to the Movies

  18. #78
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    Default Re: Early Campaign Conquest Guide

    BI is rtw too.

  19. #79
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    Default Re: Early Campaign Conquest Guide

    The discussion was with regards to Vanilla Rome. While it is true that Rome: Total War and Rome: Total War - Barbarian Invasion are much the same game, there is a roughly 400 year difference between the ending timeline of the one and the beginning of the timeline of the other, and they are different enough that when speaking of just "Rome: Total War," most of the time it refers to the base game. Otherwise it would be taken to mean both BI and Alexander as well, which would lead to quite a bit of confusion.
    I beat back their first attack with ease. Properly employed, E's can be very deadly, deadlier even than P's and Z's, though they're not as lethal as Paula Abdul or Right Said Fred.
    ~ Miaowara Tomokato, Samurai Cat Goes to the Movies

  20. #80
    shikaka's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Early Campaign Conquest Guide

    BARBARIAN INVASIONS
    CELTS



    According to their description, the celts are old fashioned but effective. This is a very good description, you will get vanilla Rome style barbarian units. Actually, the 'scotti chariot' unit still has the briton deer (or something) on it's back, looks as they inherited them from vanilla britons



    Troop Buildings

    Level1: Pictish Spears from barracks and Hounds of Culann from temple
    Level2: Wolfhounds and Chariots from stables, Kerns and slingers from archery range, druid from the referring shrine
    Level3: Gallowglasses from barracks (finally!) and Clansman cavalry (heavy cav) from barracks

    The above levels give you XP bonuses (and the recruitable general from stables) so they shouldn't be a hight priority!
    One thing worth mentioning: your temples, as all pagan temples, give troop bonuses. Be sure to train all your projectile infantry in a city with an archery shrine (+3 missile attack)!


    Location

    You start off in Ireland (Tara) and the north or the island (Dal Riada). Interesting is that these two towns, even with upgrades will max out before you reach the final town level. (not that you need that, but anyway.) South of you lies the helpless roman britain provinces.
    Basicly the islands united make an easily defendable and prosperous platform, where you can launch your D-Day from.
    One thing worth noting is that if you go naval, _take a strong navy_. The pirates near the shores of gaul to present day Denmark are very tough and aggressive. They often have like 6-8 ships in their fleet!


    Where to expand

    Obviously, first capture the island and consolidate it. After that it is your choice. There are more lucrative and more safe places though. By the time you finish with uniteing the island, the western gaul roman cities are usually lightly defended. (sometimes _really_ lightly like with 1 general _or_ 1 archer) Easy pickings. However, gaul is the place where hordes meat. As the saying: all roads lead to gaul Your troops are not really suited for fighting large amount of horse archers to be honest. Even though the initial extermination money is a bit less, Iberia is a much safer place to conquer, the hordes will not go down there, it makes lots of money, and is mainly pagan, so a good place to go! (of course, after Iberia you should try to settle in gaul too)


    Opponents

    Initially the romans, they have 2 weak garissons in their cities. Shouldn't really pose much problems if you know how to handle your units.
    The next enemy is only a trouble if they are a surprise: after you take Londinium, a near full stack of romano-british will spawn and siege you. They will have generals, 2-4 graal knights, a few legions and support troops. If you have about a half stack ready, you should win.

    Enemies later:
    Since you hold the victory objectives of the saxons, expect attacks from them. They will have comparable infantry to yours, but have better archers. You can break them though: they can form shieldwall, but your gallowglasses have warcry!


    Troop usage

    I decided to use a different paragraph, as when I first started, I found the celtic troop mix not easy to use.

    While not an easy one, it can still be a battle winner.
    Your top units are the Gallowglasses, clansman and the Hounds of Culann. Not outstanding, but useful are pict spears, slingers/crossbows. What I hardly ever use are kerns and chariots (explained later).

    Gallowglasses are tough infantry, 13/17 attack/defense. This is not outstanding (yet) other swords have similar stats, the winning thing here is that you have warcry!
    Hounds of Culann are the most useful berzerkers ever, they are armor piercing (the other zerks aren't) and available on level1! Use them, but don't use only them!
    Clansman are not the best cavalry, but they share the stats with Sarmatian auxilia and different 'barbarian' nobles, so in your region, this is the standard, you are at least not weaker then your neighbours in heavy cav.

    The pict spears are useful for guarding flanks, or in defensive battles, they can act as a barrier. How? you put them in hedgehog formation with a big space between them (like an other unit would fit). They receive the enemy charge, and the enemy, since it's flanks are now exposed lose morale. When you start pouring your hounds and gallows' into those spaces, the enemy will often rout. Don't use the spears on walls!
    The slingers and crossbows seem very weak at first glance. They have 3/6 missile attack and shorter range then arrows. To compare, normal roman archers have 5, chosen archers have 7, and the game's best ERE archers have 9 missile attack and longer range. That's why you have a shrine, which on level 3 gives +3 missile attack That way they are on the same level as archers (sling: 6 XB: 9), but lack range. Still not useful? They are both (crossbow and slinger) _armor piercing_ (only half of enemy armor is used to calculate kills)!

    Kerns I rarely use. They are not AP, they have low range and few missiles. Honestly I would only use them to run into the pila/plumba storm if I am facing romans...
    And the chariot. Much weaker then before: still low defense, but now only 2 HP. They have a javeliner on board with 6 javelins, but since the low ammo count they should be used mainly as a melee chariot. However there is a problem with that: because of their low numbers they are too often 'concerned by number of enemies'. When you run them into cavalry (you expect at least the scythes to work) they will most likely rout! You could try to use them to rear-charge enemy infantry, but for that task, the regular clansmen cavalry are just as good.


    The easitest celtic army doesn't bring any chariots and kerns, and puts the focus on the frontal attack of gallowglasses and the rear attack of clansmen. The rest of your troops will support them.

    Battles:
    Take about 3-4 pictish spears (for guarding against cavalry on the flanks, and form the above mentioned hedgehogs in defense) a main line of gallowglasses (6-8 units) who attack head-on with warcry, and take clansmen, who rear charge infantry (after dealing with enemy cav). Hounds of Culann should follow the gallows, while slingers try to run to the side/back of the enemy where their AP bolts will be even more useful (If you have an upgraded slinger firing at the side of roman plumbatarii, they will cause like 10 dead romans per volley!).
    Extra: you can try crossbows instead of slingers they are very similar in usage. Personally I don't like 2 different units for the same job, so I choose one (the cheaper and still effective one).

    One thing you definietly want to avoid is an archery duel. Actually your slingers/crossbows will do good against armored archers (like chosen archer), but your main troops (Gallowglasses and Hounds of Culann) don't have shield and heavy armor to defend against incoming arrows (or for that matter pila).

    Against hordes: you really should only defend cities and bridges. An open battle against a horde is not for celts!


    Extra:
    Crossbows are better in melee (nearly as good as chosen archers), so they are pretty good on walls! (better then slingers. Still no fire arrows though)
    If you don't take a general, take a druid unit to keep morale high!
    Mercenaries: in southern england-saxony-northern gaul you can recruit 1 good and 1 awesome mercenary. The 'good' are the grail knights, ultra heavy cavalry (a bit less armor then catas, but higher attack, I found them more useful), the 'awesome' unit is the sarmatian horse archer merc. They are horse archers with melee stats similar to your clansmen (less charge because of no spears). They are awesome because they take much less damage then melee units, so you can keep them for a much longer period of time. When possible, consider recruiting them!

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