defensive AI charges me

[stressfx]

G,day i recently picked up M2TW and D/L SS 6.3 straight away. I'm very impressed with the grim reality and recruitment features which ends the almost modern industrial war unit production from previous games (very cool and very medieval ).
Anyway played my first turn of the tuetonic order in late campaign and attacked the 2 rebel armies on my territory. I had no artillery (empire players will understand) and the AI was on the defensive but before i had a chance to issue orders I noticed the whole enemy army advance towards me so i just stayed put and let them come. I remember original MTW AI would hold position on defensive ground and pepper you with archers. I have only had the game for a few days but was hoping for a slightly smarter AI than this. So what happened ?

[bɑne]

Battle AIs rotate so you won't get the same tactics if you fight that battle again. But its interesting that some complain about a to defensive AI while you complain about a aggressive one...

[Sanderlicious]

Battle AIs rotate so you won't get the same tactics if you fight that battle again.

This.

In any case I do not mind them coming for me. If they want to approach my lines while being bombarded by artillery and arrows etc, then fine by me I say.

[WillTheOnly]

Battle AIs rotate so you won't get the same tactics if you fight that battle again. But its interesting that some complain about a to defensive AI while you complain about a aggressive one...

I'd prefer the AI always defend and find high to defend on if I attack them. Battles are too easy with the AI mostly disorderly charging. Maybe start a poll to see what everyone prefers?

[bɑne]

Maybe start a poll to see what everyone prefers?

Go ahead

[Theseus1234]

G,day i recently picked up M2TW and D/L SS 6.3 straight away. I'm very impressed with the grim reality and recruitment features which ends the almost modern industrial war unit production from previous games (very cool and very medieval ).
Anyway played my first turn of the tuetonic order in late campaign and attacked the 2 rebel armies on my territory. I had no artillery (empire players will understand) and the AI was on the defensive but before i had a chance to issue orders I noticed the whole enemy army advance towards me so i just stayed put and let them come. I remember original MTW AI would hold position on defensive ground and pepper you with archers. I have only had the game for a few days but was hoping for a slightly smarter AI than this. So what happened ?

I think it's a limitation within the game as well. If the enemy thinks it has a chance (which is probably not true), it will attack whereas if thy have, say, 500 troops to your 1100, it's more likely to stay put.

[Ichon]

I think it's a limitation within the game as well. If the enemy thinks it has a chance (which is probably not true), it will attack whereas if thy have, say, 500 troops to your 1100, it's more likely to stay put.

Two things which would make the battles much harder is #1 AI don't charge its general right away and #2 when AI is attacked it waits on highest ground it can reach easily.

When AI is the attacker it basically has to come forward at some point... otherwise people would just put it on 6x speed and wait so that is where not charging the general to die would help. The most casualties I've taken in battles is usually where AI has high ground and decides to sit and wait... my infantry have to walk uphill taking arrows and the AI usually then times its charge downhill with all its units quite well while if I have more cavalry it moves slower going uphill.

[hpsauce13]

one thing i have noticed for ages now on M2TW is that if the forces are evenly matched, then whether the enemy attacks, on a fairly flat battleground, usually depends on a 2 things.
1. who initiated the battle? if its the AI then they will always attack ( duh i know but hey)

2. who has more ranged units? if the AI has more (and is defending) then will stick it out on the high ground. However if you have more then the defending AI will usually lead the attack on you. but if you, when you said in your original post, you had no artillery meant no ranged units at all, then this really is very strange

[bɑne]

one thing i have noticed for ages now on M2TW is that if the forces are evenly matched, then whether the enemy attacks, on a fairly flat battleground, usually depends on a 2 things.
1. who initiated the battle? if its the AI then they will always attack ( duh i know but hey)

2. who has more ranged units? if the AI has more (and is defending) then will stick it out on the high ground. However if you have more then the defending AI will usually lead the attack on you. but if you, when you said in your original post, you had no artillery meant no ranged units at all, then this really is very strange

I think we need more information about the army composition and numbers. If the AI had only archer militas or shortranged units as missile then I'd charge as well... as melee is unavoidable at those low distances and its better to bind the enemy troops so that your archers don't get flanked.

[stressfx]

The AI was out numbering me slightly by about 200 troops but being the tuetonic order i had the stronger line, and i did have more ranged units by 4 to 3. I have since replayed the battle as one of the posters here suggested but same result. I was the attacking force on higher ground and the enemy rushed me straight away. They would have done much better holding out on high ground, this would have cancelled out my marginal archer advantage.
It seems archers are the key here. I tried again without archers but the results were less credible. AI general and cav units charged and got killed while the rest of line moved up in formation and waited on lower ground . I advanced and then when i got closer the enemy units all ran into each other resulting in a huge disorganised mass... It wasn't good war.

[chrono672]

i cannot feel the AI rotation thing at all, the AI has same tatics each battle. The most annoying thing is that, if the AI is on the attacking team, he always suicde his general. About the topic, In defensive battle the AI will sometimes attack the player if he has a stronger army, this is hardcoded i think.

[♔DARTH LEGO♔]

Bottom line is no matter how well the Ai is programmed its never going to do what you want or you expect.

Battle AIs rotate so you won't get the same tactics if you fight that battle again. But its interesting that some complain about a to defensive AI while you complain about a aggressive one...

Very true on both points....

Regardless of how good the Devs. are there are just certain aspects that can never be changed, especially in AI.

But with mods like SS, you should pay slightly more respect here, as they have been developed and tested by some of the most talented Devs. and TW players ever. that have spent countless hours developing, playing, testing, reworking the mod always getting community feed back and the like before implementing changes.
So you should structure your criticism a little better or even more to the point post it in a manner that will help the dev. team make the game better for everyone and not just cause you dont like what the AI did in one battle.

....welcome to the forum btw

[stressfx]

I have full respect for the mod, is very well done. You'll be happy to know that CAI lithuania and a rebellion just bought my little tuetonic tea party to an abrupt end. Some of the battles were much better and i even lost my second in command . Am doing slightly better second time around

[♔DARTH LEGO♔]

I have full respect for the mod, is very well done. You'll be happy to know that CAI lithuania and a rebellion just bought my little tuetonic tea party to an abrupt end. Some of the battles were much better and i even lost my second in command . Am doing slightly better second time around

all good buddy, just some friendly hints anyway...

some people get really upset on this forum with subjective criticism so always structure it well and leave out personal feelings unless you can back them up by adding something to the problematic issue.

But enjoy the forum and dont forget to explore, there are alot of interesting things around here these parts