Unit Size Beta Test download

**lt1956** · November 24, 2005, 05:57 PM

Hello,

I am trying something Ne for 5.0 but what to have some feedback from others besides my own testing.

I modified a 4.6 unit file to allow yyou guys to test and play with the new unit sizes.

Its basically simple, there are more men per unit now than before. The unit balance is done different than the Rock paper method. Each unit still has its advantages but the Enemy has all the same size only stats changes this. What does this mean, well it means the elite units are ALOT tougher now. lol Plus you get some more romans for your legions. But you will still be outnumbered almost 2 to 1 if you build a normal legion with some auxillia.

Please only test and report feedback if you Play on HUGE SETTINGS. I need feedback for that as I know the large settings will benefit from the size changes. Everything should be balanced, but now instead of saying a unit should be smaller, its more in the line if you want elites which cost more to be smaller in the army build less of them. This "seems" to work out well with the SPQR mechanics. BUt we will see once a few of you test it out in custom battles and campaigning. Also please test by actually FIGHTING THE BATTLES, not autocalc. wont help me if you do. lol

Lt1956

**Destraex** · November 24, 2005, 07:03 PM

I like the idea.

But am not quite sure I understand the way you have explained it.

**Revan The Great** · November 24, 2005, 07:14 PM

From what I understand, unit sizes are scaled more fairly, making Elite Units better?

-Revan

**Savage_Swede** · November 25, 2005, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by Revan The Great

From what I understand, unit sizes are scaled more fairly, making Elite Units better?

-Revan

Noooo!! not even more powerfull praetorians!

**Destraex** · November 24, 2005, 07:57 PM

THe idea I would have had if I was to do this mod would be:

Make unit sizes perfectly historical - huge!!!!!!
This would include making every single unit in RTW historical with regard to numbers. No standard sizes but historical numbers for each.
i.e. Macedonian Phalanx Phalangites have 310 men, where as Ptolemaic phalanx Phalangites have 280 men as a hypothetical example.
This would mean that balance and stats (which would also be historical) would have to be well thought out and battles would be much more interesting.

Make Elite units perhaps half sized so that two elite units equal the same number of men as an normal unit. Obviously this would be hideously expensive but would enable players to at least afford small Elite units and when they become richer group them together to make a full unit.

**lt1956** · November 25, 2005, 01:01 AM

There are balance issues to making an elite half the size. it wont work as then you wouldnt need to recruit an elite unit, because you could just use the lower quality units because their numbers would be worth more than a few elites. See the balance issues.

Ifact that somewhat happened in SPQR, Some elites were toned down but in Real life they werent. If you have a Whole unit of Elite warriors and 6 units of regular that is how the elites be limited plus they just didnt grow on trees like in RTR.

SPQR is designed to be played as ROMANS, so I am not interested in Cost issues for the other factions which would Cripple the AI.

I felt the Romans could use more men in the Legion and make them a 1man =3 in real life. 160 men per cohort does this, but the catch is if the other factions are NOT adjusted then Romans would be easier because of the more numbers.

Standard Legion should consist like so.

1 1st Cohort (legion name) 240 men (should be 260 but I cant because of RTW limits)
9 Cohorts 160men
1 General (always leaving an opening for one if the legion doesnt have one) 24-72men
2 Cavalry 80-92 men
1 Siege Weapon 60men
1-2 Javelin units 180 men
1-2 Auxilia Archers 160
2-4 Auxilia Infantry 180

Legion numbers would be 3,116 men

AI faction armies (non roman) would be 4,392men -4800men

**lt1956** · November 25, 2005, 03:03 AM

Just to let everyone know, that this change will make it harder for the Huge setting people. when I first tested these new changes I used a standard Premarius army of.

1 general
2 equites
2 archers
2 velites
4 principes
4 hastatii
4 triarii.

Against a gual forse of:

1 general
1 heavy cav
1 medium cav
1 archer
1 javelinmen
2 chosen swords
2 fanatics
3 spear
3 swords
5 Miltia

I was basically Routed and found my lines destroyed. It shocked me as the Gauls would be weaker than lets say the germans. So I DID A NEW ARMY ths time.

1 general
2 equites
2 archers
2 velites
3 triarii
5 hastatii
5 principes

This time I won, and of course was watching my ammo as I needed ever javelin. But I lost 465 to 4300 before the unit changes I could kill 3200 or more and lose as little as 50 men. Just to keep in mind that even though the Romans have more men now, the changes in allowing the AI factions to have larger elite units makes a difference! Plus what was neat is the Cavalry is changed for the AI also how about 160 heavy horse heading for your hastatii. lol

Anyway I hope a few of you test it out with me and see what happens. also The file I have uploaded here will be slightly different than the official version as I decided on 180 for Javelin and Auxilia inf for Romans instead of 200.

**Gill** · November 25, 2005, 05:56 AM

If I download this, I probably have to start a new campaing?

**lt1956** · November 25, 2005, 06:26 AM

If you want to play a compaign yes, but you can download it, its just the units will not be full when you play your saved game and they will have to be replenished to thier new size.

**makeshift52** · November 25, 2005, 11:09 AM

lt, are the praetorians larger?

**Savage_Swede** · November 25, 2005, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by makeshift52

lt, are the praetorians larger?

Lets hope not!

**makeshift52** · November 25, 2005, 12:24 PM

I was thinking just that!

**lt1956** · November 25, 2005, 12:28 PM

Yes but they have one less army starting out. :-) Balances out. But No way around them this time. fighting them means blood. I would use auxillia as I WOULDNT WANT TO LOSE MY LEGIONS. Also if they go to rebel they will still be praetorians that will have to be delt with.

Over all I tried everything in Custom and the best you can hope for is 1/4 casualties for them. I used 10 onagers and 4 Scorpions and 6 Auxillia and that was the best I could do.

**makeshift52** · November 25, 2005, 12:30 PM

Can they retrain?

**lt1956** · November 26, 2005, 05:28 AM

Interesting, everyone posts alot but no one wished to help make sure SPQR 5.0 is better than 4.6? You know after 5.0 there wont be any small patches etc unless there is a glaring bug.

Lt

Feedback would be interesting.

**makeshift52** · November 26, 2005, 07:16 AM

I would help but my harddrive is almost full and I still play 4.4.

I am purchasing an external hardrive so when I get that I will download 4.6 and then test this out.

Probably gonna be too late then though.Lol.

Sorry Lt. :-(

**lt1956** · November 26, 2005, 09:18 AM

That made no sense.

**Tanyrhiew** · November 26, 2005, 09:34 AM

New install of rtw, spqr 4.6 and the beta crashes to desktop

note SPQR runs fine using the 4.6 units file

**makeshift52** · November 26, 2005, 10:13 AM

What I meant was that my harddrive is almost full, so I can't copy the vanilla files again and start the download on that.

I still play SPQR version 4.4. I will be purchasing (buying) a new external harddrive soon. So when I get that I will have the room to start the download.

I then said that by the time I get the harddrive it will probably be too late and that the opportunity to test it will probably have closed.

So I am sorry about that.