Suggestions about the phalanx

**apostate** · November 24, 2005, 05:34 PM

we have not yet concentrated in that field but we would like to hear your suggestions and your opinion of using shield wall
if somebody knows it would be interesting to hear in which technical ways (if any) could shield wall be improved to represent phalanx more accurately
i mean shield wall possesses the attributes that we need for accuracy and gameplay (discipline,flexibility,reform,charge) but still its not a real hoplite phalanx

another issue is whether u would like to have shield wall just for professional and elite hoplites

**Ricgard** · November 24, 2005, 06:13 PM

I would say yes, but try to improve it. from what I know phalanxes marching onto the enemy would "shake" their spears to derout oncoming arrows.

**Ahiga** · November 24, 2005, 06:58 PM

Definately yes. I started using it in BI, and began to notice the very 'hoplite' nature of it. Even on guard mode, the shield wall slowly starts to push foward.

I dont really know why you'd want to limit it to the professional and elite. It has less issues than the Signifer1 Hoplite phalanx (Units on guard mode with animation). What would you do otherwise to represent the phalanx?

**Rosacrux redux** · November 25, 2005, 03:13 AM

Shield wall all the way. For all phalanxes, except maybe untrained levies. But hoplites should have the BI shield wall formation, it's so much more hoplite-ish than the clumsy phalanx formation of RTW... Maybe you can try to improve on it, though.

**apostate** · November 25, 2005, 04:33 AM

to be more specific:

we are considering combining a decent overhand animation with the BI wall attributes
nobody had yet checked in which ways the shield wall is hardcoded because we had been focusing in the code and in the model creation

even if this is doable we must do something to make only the first (or first 2-3) lines use their spear overhand
the rest lines its silly to also hold their spear that way while they dont actively play part in battle!

probable the coder has to play with formations and scripts and work together with fenrir if it is to have an animation like that

if somebody has checked if the shield wall is possible to be modified that way then it would be useful to hear from him so that it saves us some time

**bestantreas** · November 25, 2005, 06:28 AM

I votre the second because the ingame shield wall is not very accurate. Try to gat the shild closer and to cover the hoplite next to him. You can also use Schiltron, for example in the battle of Thermopylae when the Prsians get around the Spartans and Spartan had nowhere to run. You know the movie "The 300 Spartans", in the last scene when they did a similar formation.

**apostate** · November 25, 2005, 07:41 AM

hem....i dont think that following cinema movies or historical novels in books is safe...esp since we have herodotos himslef

Try to gat the shild closer and to cover the hoplite next to him

u mean to get the shields closer to each other?
its alresady too jammed together in shield wall (consider u use real hoplon shields than the smaller vanilla shields)

....i guess its quite difficult to make the shield cover the right part of body of the hoplite on his left.....

**Zenith Darksea** · November 25, 2005, 07:52 AM

I can see the argument in favour of only giving it to elite hoplites. At the battle of Mantinea, one of the things that distinguished the Spartans from the Argives was that when the armies were advancing. the Argives broke formation and were unable to present a solid wall while the Spartans held the line perfectly. Though admittedly the subsequent battle was a bit dicey.

**apostate** · November 25, 2005, 07:58 AM

using the shield wall (or a similar modification of it) for lets say Spartans and some elite and professional units (if any) supposes that we find a way to of warfare for the other hoplites so that they dont fight like barbarian spearmen.....
thats the problem with that option of the poll.....

untrained levies

well better not use such words....i dont know what "levy" stands exactly in english but most city hoplites were a kind of "levies" trained in the field if veterans...

**Ghost_loy** · November 25, 2005, 10:54 AM

cant you just add the phalanx formation in? i thought i read a thread about adding formations from bi to rtw so couldnt you add rtw formations to bi

**spirit_of_rob** · November 25, 2005, 11:47 AM

If you mean add the vanilla formation Phalanx this is totally inaccurate for Greek Warfare in this time period

**Ghost_loy** · November 25, 2005, 12:48 PM

ohh sorry i didnt know that

**Major König** · November 25, 2005, 05:09 PM

Voted to improve. Since this is a greek mod, phalanxes should be drastically improved from clumsy phalanx of RTR, but more than the shield wall of BI. Find a neutral combining both. Keep it to the most realistic standards as well.

**apostate** · December 03, 2005, 03:10 PM

Nobunuga oda....

im asking if you will be using the phalanx in this mod. Hopefully you are not because its dull, slow and lifeless.

when we say

about the phalanx

.....we dont mean the vanilla "phalanx" which may be close to hellenistic style of later era,but its way out the timeframe of our mod....we aim to completely other type of phalanx....the "shield wall" has very good points but it doesnt offer spear overhand and doesnt make hoplites place their shields the correct way....and it seems its hard coded too....

anyway the vanilla phalanx with those big spears will be totally absent if that relaxes u

....in fact the size of the spear and the seize of shield in phalanx folloed inverse route...one grows other gets small...

**severdhope** · May 02, 2006, 03:24 PM

Check out the new XGM mod, they have a beautiful overhand shield wall for hoplites

**k_raso** · May 02, 2006, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by severdhope

Check out the new XGM mod, they have a beautiful overhand shield wall for hoplites

I`m sorry, where, exactly?

Any link to an image?

Thnx

**Locky** · May 05, 2006, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by k_raso

I`m sorry, where, exactly?

Any link to an image?

Thnx

Here's a nice shot of shield wall in XGM,

**Badnercalabrese** · December 07, 2005, 06:03 PM

hmmmmm is there a way you can modify it? you guys remember AOH:TW?

how their Hopilites fought the classic Greek style with the spear over the shield, would you be able to make the shield wall... but the spears like that?