England 1100 Historical Inaccuracies

[Heskey]

In reading up on the starting family tree of England in anticipation of my next AAR I noticed a few things (albeit, from Wikipedia...)

England starts with "Duke Robert", and "Robert de Mowbray"; Mowbray is the governer of Normandy, and Duke Robert of York...

But at least these articles indicate that Duke Robert was still partaking in the First Crusade in 1100, and was in-fact the Duke as he is... But of Normandy, and Robert de Mowbray was a noble lord of Northumbria, as in where York is.

I think the two 'Robert's have had their garrisons mixed up?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_de_Mowbray

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Curthose

[Alpha Zeke]

Although I do love your anticipation, I would suggest follow up research for a more... "solid" source
Not saying I could do any better though! I can't wait to see your AAR

[JohnGlave]

Although I do love your anticipation, I would suggest follow up research for a more... "solid" source
Not saying I could do any better though! I can't wait to see your AAR

I think you're taking the usual "Wikipedia's unreliable" route. To say that Wikipedia is unreliable, would you find out whether Wikipedia's citations are "unreliable" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_...ray#References
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Curthose#Reference. Before jumping to conclusions.

Sorry if this comes along as forceful or abrupt, but I don't like the "Wikipedia can't be a source" attitude, discredit Wikipedia's citations before doing that.

[Heskey]

Oh I know Wikipedia is dubiously accurate at best... But it goes on to describe Mowbray's capture at a Northumbrian castle after rebelling against William Rufus etc.

[Alpha Zeke]

Don't go all England history on me, I know nothing of the sort

[Alpha Zeke]

Actually, I always use wikipedia for their citations to find it. Those work perfectly fine - as long as they have the same info put on wikipedia. I made the mistake of citing info from wikipedia on a school project (And of course saying I cited it from Wikipedia's source). Well turned out the source was almost completely unrelated to what I read on wikipedia. Won't ever trust em again

[JohnGlave]

Actually, I always use wikipedia for their citations to find it. Those work perfectly fine - as long as they have the same info put on wikipedia. I made the mistake of citing info from wikipedia on a school project (And of course saying I cited it from Wikipedia's source). Well turned out the source was almost completely unrelated to what I read on wikipedia. Won't ever trust em again

Sorry, I was just a member of a Wiki once, and have experienced having perfectly good information being thrown out of an article because of no citations. I was way to reactionary to you, sorry .

[Heskey]

Any of the modders want to take a look at this?

I'm thinking of doing my AAR in the narrative style of that Professor that narrates 'The Normans', what do you think?

[Alpha Zeke]

Sorry, I was just a member of a Wiki once, and have experienced having perfectly good information being thrown out of an article because of no citations. I was way to reactionary to you, sorry .

Its quite fine, good work being trashed always hurts

Any of the modders want to take a look at this?

I'm thinking of doing my AAR in the narrative style of that Professor that narrates 'The Normans', what do you think?

That is a good idea. One way I would want to try one is as a general on the front lines, but imagine playing a game with no wars. That wouldn't turn out so well

[Fair Prince]

Let's just say, Stainless Steel doesn't really excel in historical accuracy. I started to play with 6.2 RR/RC some months ago, only to abandon my campaign a couple of days later because I felt there was much need for improvement in that sense. So I started to look up historical sources, tweak the names and rosters a bit, then about halfway through the process I got the idea why not make a proper historical mod for SS that could be used by anyone when it's completed. So, I started it, gave it the name 'Historical Characters Project' and I'm still working on it (and will do for a while).

I told you this little tale because if you get into history research too much, you might end up working on your own mod... So be careful with that!

[Heskey]

Haha not a chance I'm too much of a dumba$$ to know how to mod my way out of a paper bag.

And yeah FP I'm a fan of your work and eagerly await the release, I am using your current text change mod.

Still waiting to hear about the re-reversal of Bohemond di Taranto's garrison switch! (Should be in Antioch, now starts in Edessa).

[Meneth]

Haha not a chance I'm too much of a dumba$$ to know how to mod my way out of a paper bag.

monitor_condition CharacterTurnStart CharacterIsLocal

and inPaperBag = 1
console_command kill "Paper Bag"
historic_event paperBagDestroyed true

end_monitor

[Fair Prince]

Haha not a chance I'm too much of a dumba$$ to know how to mod my way out of a paper bag.

And yeah FP I'm a fan of your work and eagerly await the release, I am using your current text change mod.

Still waiting to hear about the re-reversal of Bohemond di Taranto's garrison switch! (Should be in Antioch, now starts in Edessa).

Here's what you need:
Open descr_strat.txt for editing, find Bohemond's description (line 4548) then change his starting coordinates to 'x 338, y 106'. As a result, he should now start in Antioch but be aware that Edessa will be empty if you do this.
And please also bear in mind that these changes aren't save-game compatible of course.

[Alpha Zeke]

EDIT: I was told

[Meneth]

You forgot to capitalize the P btw.

No, it's a general rule of programming and scripting to never start variables with a capital letter, so that was on purpose.

[Heskey]

Jocelyn (sp?), however it's spelt, is the Edessan overseer, and he now starts in Antioch; their full garrison has also been swapped though.

[Fair Prince]

Jocelyn (sp?), however it's spelt, is the Edessan overseer, and he now starts in Antioch; their full garrison has also been swapped though.

Well, then just swap Bohemond's starting coordinates with Joscelyn's in the file, it's easy as that.

[Gorrrrrn]

I look forward to the day when the release version of stainless steel doesn't have English_rebels in Inverness and Toulouse isn't in the gascony region.
It gets tedious having to fix them every time.

[Royalist_Robbo]

ya can't beat good old books for historical research - sometimes the old ways are just best...............

[preachercheeze]

ya can't beat good old books for historical research - sometimes the old ways are just best...............

I am going to write a historical thesis during this fall... and I LOOOONG for the smell of mold and dust in ye olde university library here in Gothenburg...

although I must say that Wikipedia is quite a good source for information.... a test study made a couple of years ago showed that there was as much inacuracies in Wiki as in Encyclopedia Brittania at that time... what makes Wiki a bad source is only when you write thesis or papers 'cause the info you are referring to isn't published but changeable... if you check up a source from wiki two years after the paper was published the page have probably changed big time... but as an encyclopedia for discussion or for a forum debate it is one of the best sources there is because it is available to all....

I mean... "I have a book here at home that says that King George I was a hermaphrodite!!!"... that I would not trust more than Wiki...


EDIT: although I HAVE seen once a page on wiki that clearly stated that kites came from China whom got the technology by an alien race from the galaxy of (insert random gibberish here)... but when I logged in five minutes later to take a screenie, the entry was changed back again....