My Fellow Roman Empire Players Tips & Hints

[strife1013]

I am going to start a game as ERE/The Roman Empire/The Byzantine Empire whatever they are called and was wondering what you guys/gals have done in your campaigns. I am looking at starting an early era game.

Who do you marry your faction heir too?
Would you suggest keep marrying to the same faction over and over again for example: Hungry, Russia, Kiev Rus?
Do you marry your princess away or do you let her join a monastery?
What alliances do you secure?
Who do you go to war with?
What are your building priorities?
Turtle or expand quickly?
What are your armies like?
Your favorite/worst units and why?

Things like that and any other information you want to share would be cool to read as well. Stories and screen shots are welcome.

[feanor910]

Well I have never played as the Romans in SS. But I have played as almost all of their rivals and I see a pattern in that they always do well if they ally with Hungary. You don't get much from a war with them, just lands not nearly as rich as your own and a whole batch of new enemies. But they seem extremely valuable as allies to guard your rather expansive northern lands so you can focus on your real enemies, Venice and Turkey. I also wouldn't bother with the Cumans, as taking them out only introduces you to a border with Poland and the Russians. I would try to take out Venice early as northern Italy and especially the city of Venice is very wealthy and your early troops are bad ass. I'm also interested in playing a campaign as the Romans because thanks to the unit redux they truly field one of the most unique and awesome rosters in the game that I have seen, so I'm interested to see some of the responses as well.

[Sanderlicious]

Though I have yet to play them in SS 6.3, my overall strategy remains the same throughout all versions so far...

Militarily:
I usually race out quickly to secure all of Greece and the south west Anatolia. Once I have these I tend to turtle for a while and even sometimes defend the borders of areas I don't intend to invade soon with some well placed forts. I try to keep healthy relations with the Hungarians and Seljuks as I try to fight one front at a time and Venice is almost always first to engage me. Taking Venetian and Sicilian settlements is how I usually start my expansion, then all of Italy better watch out.

Diplomacy:
Though I do try to ally myself with Hungary, I personally like to Send my princess to Kiev Rus and Novgord and marry what I can with them (I try to keep the Orthodox family together ). Seljuks usually back stab me when I ally with them, but I guess that may have something to do with the AI depending on which you choose. Either way, I mostly avoid them until I am much more powerful and have Italy to back me.

I believe the Roman/Byzie campaign is one of the most fun by far. Have fun!

[Concrete]

Don't expand north.
All it gets you are a few settlements which are poor economically, and war with up to five nations.(Depending on version and if Hungary survive.)
So, you should ignore the North, and be as friendly as possible with the Hungarians.
But, keep a modest garrison in border settlements, you can never be too careful.

Turtle up to the west, you don't really want to leave Greece.
But leave a significant military presence there.
You WILL be attacked a lot by Venice and Sicily.
Now, the Turks.
You want to shove several pila down their throat, and then trample them into the mud underneath hundreds of Cataphracts.
Push them all the way to Antioch.

At this stage, you're pretty secure, and should be one of, if not the most powerful nation in the world.
You can launch a full on invasion of Italy at this stage, but it is still difficult to do so.(The amount of enemies you aquire is staggering.)
Instead, before you attack Italy, I advise you conquer Egypt and the Holy Land, do so with a pincer movement, south from antioch, and a naval invasion starting at Alexandria.
Once you have Egypt and the Holy Land, you are nigh unstoppable.
I suggest taking Italy, and then France and North Africa, and then Spain.(Lots of enemies, good challenge, as you're already passed the critical mass level.)
I advise against pushing further east, or entering Russia at all, not really worth it.

In the early era game you start with 2 scolarii and retrain them in your cities capital even though you can't recurit them, what building do they come from? Is there a scripted event that must take place in order to recurit more into your army?

They come from the unique building in Constantinople, some named Barracks. (Said name escaping me at the moment.)
You can recruit them after a certain historical milestone, similar to the late era units of other factions. (The year itself, I'm afraid I do not know.)

[Paladin94610]

Opps. I never played as Byzantines both on vanilla and mod because they are friendless, lonely, very hard to play. Then I played a custom battle as Byzantines and then again I loves this new Byzantine Roster and stick to it. So I started my VERY first Byzantine campaign on M/M SS6.3 last a few days. I had 0.5TPY with 0.5 YPT aging. I blitz across the Greece and took Belgrade before Hungarians or Venetians took it. Then I strengthen my borders and Trebizond and Caffa. On 17th turn, the Hungarians besieged Belgrade. So I waged a permanent war with them the one which most of you suggested to avoid. I allied with Cumans, Fatimids and Seljuks but failed to ally with Kievan Rus. Seljuks backstabbed the Fatimids. I was on the side of Seljuks. Then they made peace so I allied with Fatimids once more. The Seljuks backstabbed me on turn 30s. They try to take Isparta but failed. I send my Nicaean garrison to the oncoming Seljuk army. I won the battle and when I returned back home, another full-stack force originally a jihad force to Toledo attacked already worn out Byzantine army. In that battle I lost my general and half of my rest of the men. It should be called the Battle of Manzikert. I revenged them with my Constantinople garrison while they besiege Nicaea. I lost Caffa to Kievan Rus. I had recently taken Rugusa from Venice. Venice is not a threat for me. They stick on their last city of Venice with a full stack force jealously defending the city across a narrow canal. HRE actually decimated Venetians by making peace with Danes. HRE is surprisingly withstanding the invasions in this campaign because I raised their king purse to 3000 florins. They are taking Hungary from west while I defend them from the east along Danube.

Lessons learned.
-Send every princess to constantinople when the theatre company comes you need to pay them 1000 florins to get higher charm for your princesses. Then send a high charm princess to Hungary and force them an alliance. I think it is the only way to ally with Hungarians unless you bribe them for alliance. Suggestions in above posts will have clear reasons.
-On the early campaign, Turks have superior HAs, while Byzantines are relying on the Mounted Acritae, Magyar Cavalry (for west) and Turkish Horse Archers (for east). Your army will have high proportions of Byzantine Urban Militia (contar... something?) and toxotae but 2 units of mounted missiles is a must. -When facing the Turks take them out at the gates.
-When facing the Venetians take them out on the field. Outlive the Venetians as quick as possible.
-When facing the Hungarians, take them out at the bridges and if failed at the gates.
-Don't expand north and maintain peace in the north.
-Sell Caffa at least on 20th turn to someone but not with a 10000 florins of course. Try to sell it with at least 20000 but I am sure you won't get more than 35000 florins.
-You can also sell Trebizond to Turks or Cumans if you want to. But personally I defend it to the last man. Make full-stack in Trebizond with spearmen and toxotae.
-Make Danube and Alps your border while invading Italy.

[strife1013]

Well I will tell you what I plan to do, I plan to marry a hungry princess and keep my boarders to the north secure (gift them extra money so I don't get bad stats from having too much money & keep good relations) while I fight Venice and the Turks on the west and east side of my empire while I have nothing but the sea to the south.

The first places I take to secure Greece is Arta (which I make into a city), Scopia, and Sofia. Than turtle for a little bit and build build build. While fighting Turks & Venice) It was a good idea by feanor not to take Baia and Targoriste to keep a buffer between me and Poland.

[feanor910]

Just keep in mind Strife that bad traits for money have been done away with. In my current Venetian campaign I have 130K so far and I have fantastic Generals. Only real bad traits are a couple of drinkers and a bad taxman, and they were born with those. Also in case you didn't know getting bad taxman traits from low taxes is gone as well, so if you are a chivalry whore like myself go ahead and set to low and watch your population skyrocket.

[strife1013]

@ feanor910
Well I did not know that, that is very important information to know. No more money to hungry! lol
I'm glad that's been done away with. What's a good way to raise chivalry besides letting the enemy go? Since this faction can't go on crusades I gotta figure something out so that I can build my castles up.
+Rep for the info.

[feanor910]

Wow first rep, thanks!

You can build chivalry best by sticking a general in a settlement and putting taxes on low. After a few turns your general will get a point in chivalry and start down the "noble in rule" etc path. Keep the taxes on low and the chivalry will keep growing. As far as castles go, you'll have to move in a general you've had in a city growing chivalry to a castle to get the benefit, as you can't lower taxes in a castle and thus can't grow chivalry that way. Also high chivalry or dread faction leaders now seem to give traits to all generals, so if you can get a high chivalry faction leader all your generals will begin to grow chivalry like mad, especially if you are occupying cities and releasing prisoners on top of low tax rates etc. Just from releasing prisoners and low taxes all my generals have 3-7 chivalry each and the new ones start usually with 1 chivalry from faction leader bonus's, chivalrous father traits, etc. If you can start the process of getting chivalry it will be easy to keep it going just from traits your generals will be born with and then finding them a city to go sit in.

[Ichon]

It is difficult to go wrong in early campaign with Byzantines... large, rich, strongest roster early, and relatively weak enemies.

Venice usually turns out to be your worst, or at least most irritating enemy- so ending that threat early can be nice.

Hungary is often an ally as it has enough problems on its borders but be careful to maintain that alliance as they are worse enemies than Venice if given time to grow.

Turks are not much a threat early, in fact battles with them are often disappointingly easy. Fatimids and Mongols later will be more trouble if your borders grow.

I often make war on Fatimids and exchange their lands to the Turks to preserve buffer(attacking Fatimids from the sea) and to allow Turks to live long enough to get their later era units which are more of a challenge to fight.

Princesses are useful for alliances occasionally but shouldn't be relied on to hold AI off. I usually prefer to keep them in the family and ensure general's loyalty and some useful traits by marriage to a royal.

Constantinople is your most important city obviously, mostly due to a couple units that can only be trained there. Facing a Jihad at some point is likely and probably the only real threat in an early era campaign if you leave Constantinople undefended though it usually takes a few turns to be really threatened by arriving Jihad armies.

[Therion]

At the beginning, you border (by land or sea) the Turks, Hungary, Kiev (Crimea), Venice (Durazzo), Crusaders and Egypt (Cyprus). So it's important to secure some borders first. In my game, I chose Hungary and Kiev as my allies. As Byzantium, it is very important to avoid being gangbanged.

I rush like mad to the rebel cities/castles in the Balkans: Arta, Scopia, Sofia, AND Belgrade. It's important to take Belgrade before Venice. I'd also send an expedition to Italy and take Bari. Then exchange it with the Pope for an alliance. This will serve to keep Sicily away from your borders. If Sicily takes it, it will definitely start invading Durazzo and will be a thorn in the flesh. On the other hand, the Papacy is passive.

At this point you can expect invasions from the Turks, the Fatimids (Cyprus) and probably Venice (Durazzo or Belgade). The castle in Cyprus is very important as it allows you to replenish armies that fight both in Anatolia and Near East. So protect it by building a huge fleet. At some point, you will see the Fatimids moving in with their army in a couple fo ships. Sink the lot, even if you are not at war.

In my game, the Turks never invaded so I invaded them myself. Usually they are at war with a couple of other neighbours (Khwarezmia, Crusaders or Fatimids, sometimes Cumans) so Anatolia can be relatively unguarded. After that you can keep hammering the Turks or move on to the Fatimids. It's probably a good idea to keep the Turks as a buffer state between you and the Khwarezmians.

As you can see from the screenshot, I'm leading the way quite comfortably.

Eitherway, expects LOTS of battles. As you can see, I didn't take the last 2 Fatimid settlements because I was so tired of war so I vassalized them instead. Now the Turks attacked and the Mongols arrived so I can probably start fighting again. This time I can build the elite units though, which will probably make battles a lot easier...and fun.

As for marriage, I usually intermarry with my allies and vassals as well as factions I cannot break my alliance with. So you can find princesses from one or a couple of Western factions that do not neighbour and are less likely to go at war with each other (e.g Portugal and England).

For building, I prioritize farming first as each farming upgrade gives a pop growth boost. Then trade. Then the rest.

Keeping taxes on low will make your general chivalrous but can also give him the 'poor with taxes' trait. So I usually like to revert between low and normal every 5 turns or so.

I release prisoners of war without generals to keep a high reputation but ransom those that have generals.

Agents are useless (assassins) or require lots of work to manage (merchants) so I wouldn't bother that much. You're rich anyway.

[Massive_attack]

As rome ? Okay, heres how your early game should go strategically:

Priority number one: build up some kind of army (your fairly weak at first, get some troops together, think quantity not quality

Priority number two: slam the turks with everything you got. Im talking maximum effort here, hit them, and keep hitting them untill you own asia minor. Then sue for peace any way possible, by now, they are usually weak and desperate enough to want it, so long as you throw in some gold.

As far as marriages go, I would really hit up hungary, they probably wont overrun you in the early game but they can set you FAR back and seriously fubar priority number 2

Priority 3: Create fortress Balkans. Sieze rebel settlements (you can do this during priority two if your a skilled player and can work with less) and try to beat venice and hungary to the punch. In particular, do your best to sieze the castle nestled in the hills just west of constantinople, Sofia. Sofia is the big cheese for the hungarians, strategically, its critical to your defense. Make capturing it high up on your to do list.

Convert some of the inner castles of the balkans to towns, and vice versa for the ones on the borders (which will be most of them, but still)

Focus your priestly endeavors in the east, but once your comfortable with orthodoxy levels in asia minor, rush them to combat the cardinals venice and perhaps hungary will inevitably send.

Following capture of asia minor, consider allying the templars, they are the least likely faction to backstab you, and are a worthy buffer for the terror of the caliphate south of asia minor. Your escapades in the east should probably end here. Move most of your men back west to the balkans (which if they havent been engulfed in war now, should soon) and pick and choose who you want to kill. Venice is by far the easiest, but holding onto your winnings is tough work, so in the long term, you might want to smash hungary.


At some point, let me make it clear, hungary is going to back stab, and in a big way. Hungary wants Sofia bad, and for whatever reason, it wants you dead; hungary is also the most natural expansion for the roman faction.

Alternatively, you could attempt to conquer italy. I would advise against it in the early game though, because chances are good you would fail unless you carefully constructed some devious ploy to kill venice then sneak attack sicily.

As for army composition: try not to depend on any city units, most of them are utter trash untill you get medium level barracks, and even then, castle troops are where its at. I usually keep a few more castles than normal around for the byzzies, espeically since late game there is very little love for the city roster (except some relatively cheap and cool heavy cavalry, and decent medium infantry)

Good allies:
Templars,
(potentially) venice/hungary (to discourage wars, even though they are inevitable)

General strategy: Go for a "turtle, blitz, turtle, blitz..." approach, you hit hard fast and without mercy, then you consolidate your earnings and lick your wounds, rinse, repeat.

Do things in stages. For instance: Asia minor, then Balkans, then... to avoid a two front war, or a sudden lack of troops or resources to accomplish a campaign.

Build up your economy subtly, with emphasis on sea trade (though in the case of constantinople, build litterally everything)

Keep some castles in the heartland castles, it will pay off when the never ending jihad storm hits.

Those are just some of my tips, i played ton of roman games, so yeah, this is drilled into my brain.

Edit: my justification for not saying venice is an evil backstabbing arse like i did with hungary is that generally venice is much weaker as time goes on than you, especially if you do well enough to sieze all of the balkans, typically venice should leave well enough alone. If they ever tried something, it will be very predictabe (read: army hugging the adriatic coast, going south) and easy to block/intercept, whereas with hungary you have an entire front to consider. Sicily, on the other hand, fancies naval invasions, watch out for them on the western coast.


Late campaign: Will be all about the muslims and how they want a piece of your asia minor action. Consider killing off the caliphate in your own mock crusades to egypt (the holy land can bloody well wait ) via naval invasions. Then just squeeze jerusalem and the caliphate like a zit from their homelands and over the corpse of the now almost certainly dead templars/crusader states (if they arent dead yet, march through their lands and watch as they do nothing out of fear, or just conquer them on the way)

Edit: and ally the K-shah or something, even becomming a protectorate is preforable to having them grind you into dust with their infinite orc stacks from the mordor that is persia (and their huge massive inflated empire that has no doubt consumed the Rus and the Cumans... ridiculous)

[strife1013]

Thank you for the tips, there was a few things I learned there even though I have played MTW2 since it first came out several years ago. I believe in SS 6.2 traits weren't designed that way as in if your faction leader has high dread or chivalry other generals will get that as well. I did know that family members pass down that. I believe it's for every 3 dread or chivalry you pass on one to your son.

[Sebastos Abdes Pantera]

Make sure to upgrade Adrianople really good, so you can pump out stacks when the Bulgar/Vlach revolts come. Also it may help getting ballista towers for the inevitable Jihads that get declared on you. You also need to control the crossing from Anatolia if you are to fend off the Jihads.

[Gogolometro]

Play late and have fun. Dont trust anybody, be chilvarious ruler.
Treat Hungary like worse enemy, kill any venetians and exterminate turks, because them are the biggest danger to you if they develop. Trust your armys, are so good, and the combos of them are so interesting, I am sure you will love them. Recruit cavalry prudent. Get fast mercenarys buildings, add Schytion, Alemanoi, and the german infantry. They are very, very usefull. Make in Constantinopole, the army imperial baracks, and the city hall upgrade. Scolari wash the dloor with enemy, siphonaratores are your love, and castophylakoi are good like DFK in towns!
Mourtadoi/toxotai/scutatoi/schytion. Build fasty highways, you will be incredible fast at deployement of your armys. Focus at Anatolia first, kill turks first. Hungary will not be a big problem. Dont let italians to put a foot in Greece. They are dangerous. Get Ragusa and things will be ok.
Ally with mongols. Just the fun of taking Levant for ya.

[feanor910]

Play late and have fun. Dont trust anybody, be chilvarious ruler.
Treat Hungary like worse enemy, kill any venetians and exterminate turks, because them are the biggest danger to you if they develop. Trust your armys, are so good, and the combos of them are so interesting, I am sure you will love them. Recruit cavalry prudent. Get fast mercenarys buildings, add Schytion, Alemanoi, and the german infantry. They are very, very usefull. Make in Constantinopole, the army imperial baracks, and the city hall upgrade. Scolari wash the dloor with enemy, siphonaratores are your love, and castophylakoi are good like DFK in towns!
Mourtadoi/toxotai/scutatoi/schytion. Build fasty highways, you will be incredible fast at deployement of your armys. Focus at Anatolia first, kill turks first. Hungary will not be a big problem. Dont let italians to put a foot in Greece. They are dangerous. Get Ragusa and things will be ok.
Ally with mongols. Just the fun of taking Levant for ya.

Scolarii are ridiculous. They are almost unkillable without an AP unit, and even then expect to sacrifice your AP guys if you expect the Scolarii to rout or die. Had 2 units of Scolarii along with some low level spearman almost break through a castle gate in my Venice campaign. They ate through 4 units of armored Italian spear militia, about a quarter unit of armored sargeants, a half unit of light men at arms, and multiple units of peasents. I had long ago killed or routed the rest of their army including their general. I BARELY stopped them by taking a risk and pinning them with my general and having crossbows fire down on them from behind on the walls, that's what really did them in. Never ever underestimate the mounted jedi...I mean Scolarii.

[strife1013]

In the early era game you start with 2 scolarii and retrain them in your cities capital even though you can't recurit them, what building do they come from? Is there a scripted event that must take place in order to recurit more into your army?

[Irishpsycho]

In 6.1 i played early as the byzantines and opened up a can of woop-ass all over the middle east. No one could stand in my way. Now in 6.3 I'm trying a historical approach. I was trying to rebuild the Byzantines at their medieval golden age height by retaking atolia, syrria, southern italy, and sicily. I'm having a blast and the new byzantine units are great.

[Sebastos Abdes Pantera]

Well when I defeated the Turks they opened up the Fatimid Caliphate, they are currently sending stack after stack. So you may want to consider leaving some of the Turks lands, as most of the time they are at war with the Fatimids.

[Paladin94610]

Better to remove Bulgarian uprising. I won a battle against the Hungarians today. Odds were against me. 1:2. I got a shallow hill and defend them off. They rout all my spearmen (Urban Militia) but 2 units and a croat axe unit fought hard and the javeliners stood against them. Toxotae behind them rain down flaming arrows and scare them off. I charge my captain with 12 Mounted Acritae into 112men unit of Slav levies which is already shot by flaming arrows lowering morale. When I charged they rout and a chain rout started. And I won the battle. I chase them down with my 12 horses. Still I make 1800 kills and they got my 1000 men before going to hell. But their army has more elite units. Mine is only militias and a croat axe and mounted acritae unit. Then I come back to the strat map happily and thinking of triumph. Once I got the screen, a near full stack of rebels besiege Sofia. Other two rebel stacks appear from nowhere and besiege Scopia and Adrianople respectively. Now Sicily, Venice, Turks, and Hungarians are at my gates. And these Bulgars stab me from behind.It makes the already hard game more hard. I deleted the Bulgarian Uprising section in campaign script to remove it. Am I right?