Gun powder bombards??

[cemilelci]

Gun powders unit and bombards i want. İnşallah BC 3 will include them.

[Eretna Beg]

yes, gunpowder units must be add.

[nhinhonhinho]

Handgunner and bombar is enough for the time frame but i wonder about their effective !! Handgunner only useful in mass and bombar (not mention Grand bombar) is good with siege only

[Berkut]

Please no. If you like gunpowder units go play empire, I think gunpowder ruins the atmosphere of this game

[Babygod22]

Please no. If you like gunpowder units go play empire, I think gunpowder ruins the atmosphere of this game

True, the game is called "Medieval" Total War for a reason
in my opinion the "pike,musket and bombards" warfare is the most boring kind of warfare there is, also the military clothing in that period are very ugly.

[wudang_clown]

There will be no gunpowder units in BC3.

[nhinhonhinho]

If they are not suit to the game well it's fine. I can live without them. However I agree with matmohair1:

Greek Fire

[matmohair1]

Greek Fire and Naftah

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...y_warriors.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...ns/W_118_F.jpg

[AnthoniusII]

Greek Fire and Naftah

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...y_warriors.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...ns/W_118_F.jpg

No matter if these warriors must be added i beleive that in this case BC must be "kingdoms" compatible. Other wise nothing can happen.
If BC will be kingdoms compatiple we will be happy to give this weapon
that you can see in this video.
We created for our unit.[p1] [p2] [p3]

[duce13]

Yupp, greek fire - that would be nice...

Anybody knows if greek flame throwers (or whatever the unit is called) are planned to be included in 3.0? It shouldn't pose any problem as the mod will require Kingdosm.

[Babygod22]

Yes, greekfire and naffatun MUST be included, also the Hashashim too.

[Vaz]

They MUST?

Care to give a reason why, exactly?

That they're present in the 11th Century?

In the 11th Century, there was much that was present. Either through limitations of the game engine itself, or just basic limitation through a) balance or b) choices made by the team, some aren't being included.

Greek Fire and Naffatun aren't being included. I, for one, never enjoyed the fact that as soon as I was able to get Siphonores in Stainless Steel, if I recruited even 2 units, I'd never lose that city in a siege.

Reasons for not including direct fire gunpowder and Fire using units, is that the AI cannot use them effectively.

Slight undulations in the ground, and lacking the ability to prioritise properly results in targetting correct units - i.e heavy units, and getting them caught up in melee.

Lastly, a quick google search tells me that (wiki source) that it was only in 1260 when the mamluk's used a cannon against the Golden Horde in the middle east.

[Babygod22]

@Vaz

Well my reasons are a bit simple, because flamethrower, flamable pots and Hasashim are cool and unique, people enjoy using them in battle, it bring a twist to the usual "sword, spear, bow, horse" warfare but not so much that it turned into the "pike, musket and cannons" warfare that I don't like.

Also because base on what the modders did with BC units models, I assume the Hasashim would look totally badass.

I don't really care much about historical accuracy unless it makes the units on the battlefield look completely wrong like the vanilla Muslim's model, that pi$$ed me off.

I also don't care if its unfair for the AI if I use greekfire to defend settlements, I don't do that anyway. But intelligent AI battle tattics is a must, like the battle AI in stainless steel, I think that should be enough.The game is about the player, not the AI

(I don't mean to order the modders to make it happend by capitalizing the word "must", I just wanted to strengthen my point)

[teh.frickin.pope]

Hasashim are cool

Last I checked you could hire Assassins in Broken Crescent. Though a hashashim ancillary or two would be nifty; unnecessary, but nifty.

[Outlawstar15a2]

I'm a little divided on gunpowder units. While I love gunpowder units because I love the thunderous sound they make and the useful of gunpowder based artillery I also equally hate how useless gunpowder in general is due to the ed up way the Medieval 2 game engine handles gunpowder units. So I don't know. Maybe include them but I got enough damn headaches in my life right now.

[Babygod22]

Last I checked you could hire Assassins in Broken Crescent. Though a hashashim ancillary or two would be nifty; unnecessary, but nifty.

What you talking about?
Im talking about the hashashim (battlefield assassin) that fight on the battlefield, not assassin agent that kill people on the campaign map

[teh.frickin.pope]

What you talking about?
Im talking about the hashashim (battlefield assassin) that fight on the battlefield, not assassin agent that kill people on the campaign map

I've never seen anything that suggested the Hashashim used anything more than militias as soldiers, and mainly relied on intimidation to keep themselves from being attacked.

If the assassins took to the battlefield, would they not arm and equip themselves as regular soldiers? An unarmored man with a dagger does not pose much threat to a group of armored swordsmen. Does training in the ways of stealth equate to an advantage once the ranks are formed? I just don't see how they would be differentiated from any other group of regular soldiers.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, I simply can't see what role they would play on the battlefield that isn't already covered by existing units.

[metsikhovne]

I think gunpowder shall be included

[Babygod22]

I am not sure about the historical accuracy of battlefield hashashim actually being used in warfare of the middle east, and I don't really care anyway, this is a game, not a history book. I just wanted to bring back the hashashim in the vanilla medieval 2 game, but this time with the unique armour and weapon design, not "cloned" like vanilla.

and if the hashashim actually fight on the battlefield, I'm guessing their role would be as guerilla fighter, hide on the flank then suddenly pop out and attack the enemy flanks.
I imagine they would have very good fighting skill and fast, but their number would be few. Not a very useful unit to most people, but very useful to me because my style is guerilla warfare. Also the fact that they are assassins makes them a unique unit to play with. Same reason for greekfire and naffatun.
I mean come on, would you rather keep three diffrent weak and boring spear militia unit models or have battlefield assassins, flamethrower and fire gernade?

[wudang_clown]

Babygod, we really appreciate your interest, but keep in mind that it's not fun for us, I mean team members, to create such a fantasy unit.

That is true - on the battlefield members of Nizari sect fought equipped like any other warrior of their time. There was no Assassin-Creed-style outfit and fighting.

We won't create such an unit, because it would be a fantasy unit. We don't want to make a mod 100% historically accurate, but this is not Prince of Persia for M2TW, so yeah, we would rather keep those three different weak and boring spear militia unit models than have battlefield assassins, flamethrower and fire grenade.

Though those latter units are quite possible... we'll see...

But definitely, there will be no "battlefield assassins".

If it comes to guerilla warfare, in my opinion it has nothing to do with using of such units on the battlefield. It's rather: how you use your forces against advancing enemy.