Kingdom of Georgia Project -

[y2day]

Long ago Caesar Clives, Point Blank and myself joined together to add The Kingdom of Georgia to Stainless Steel. Well we got busy and never got it done. (Life happens) With the release of SS 6.3 another member is taking up the cause and we have decided to join him. The Kingdom of Georgia Project has just launched with Seether leading the way. The big issue is the hard coded unit limit. 500 units isn't alot compared to the amount of factions represented. PB has done a great job in getting rid of redundent units, but more will need to be done. The options we do have are pretty clear. Remove units from some factions or remove a faction. We have not decided yet. We do not want to remove a faction but will if we must.

This poll is not a final decision at all. Again we may not remove a faction. We would just like to get an idea of what faction would be the one to go if we did decide to remove one. If the faction you choose is not represented in the poll please post it.

thanks
y

[Point Blank]

How many unique unit slots will Georgia need?

[napoleonic]

remove timurids and teutonics

1. why teutonics? simply because it's already too many catholic factions, on a very crowded area (west, north and central europe)
2. why timurids? because the AI who control eastern factions cannot handle 2 big invasions

so instead of mongols + timurids, I suggest make the mongols more powerful but drop down the timurids

make way for eastern and saharan factions!

georgia is quite good although I want more islamic factions

and I always want a saharan faction -well TBH I don't know if there were any powerful saharan factions at that time- to make the africa much more interesting

also I suggest remove 1 more regions from Ireland island, remove Palma, remove that island east to Iraklion under the (early campaign) Roman territory, and remove that island in the middle of Baltic sea; THEY ARE NOT in any way important or strategic for the gameplay, then add more regions to north africa and/or eastern/asian regions

what do you think?

I think the game need eastern and southern balancing, not adding more and more western and northern stuffs.

[Sanderlicious]

hmmm...

I would love to see Georgia added, but I have a very hard time personally being ok with the removal of a faction, territories, or many units (apart from the redundant ones).

I, personally, respectfully disagree with napoleonic as far as the territories being removed and relocated as I feel that Africa and the East already have a fair number of regions given the number of factions located in the area. Plus, I feel that, for me anyway, island regions play an important strategic role for launching invasions and exerting relative control over distant areas.

Could this team not work together with Vaz and his "Broken Sword" project in order to re-work the eastern faction rosters and perhaps at the same time free up some space for unique units? (Plus it would help if they were compatible)

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Maaan, I would say don't remove any, but went with Norway. In SS6.2 the AI behavior pattern was that Norway almost always steamrolled Scandinavia then came crashing down on HRE.

I guess just make Super rebels to keep the Danes busy so the don't just mimic Norway's behavior patterns. I would'nt touch the other two factions mentioned because they keep the balance and mystery to two highly contested areas. Maintaing the faction balance is important.

[Cyprexinia]

Remove Scotland, what is it they do exactly? The other factions have some historical relevance. In the late campaign Siciliy shouldn't even exsist, didn't that kingdom fall apart and the HRE took over because there were no heirs to inherit the kingdom? I'd say remove Norway.

[Praetorian121]

Don't remove any!

[Sanderlicious]

I feel that removing Norway would create too large a vacancy in scandinavia. In fact, removing any one of the nations mentioned above seems to disturb what seems to me at least a fantastic balance on the Euro campaign map that we currently enjoy.

Georgia, however, I feel would add the necessary balance to the eastern sphere of gameplay. I still think that re-working some other faction's rosters could give you the number of open slots necessary to create the faction.

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

I feel that removing Norway would create too large a vacancy in Scandinavia. In fact, removing any one of the nations mentioned above seems to disturb what seems to me at least a fantastic balance on the Euro campaign map that we currently enjoy.

Georgia, however, I feel would add the necessary balance to the eastern sphere of gameplay. I still think that re-working some other faction's rosters could give you the number of open slots necessary to create the faction.

Well... Would this even put a dent in the K-Shah stream roller, and should it. K-Shah rolls like Sherman thru Georgia til it hits the Levant. Then every once and a while The Egyptians hold them in check.

I think this is where every player has the opportunity to really test his/her metal. Play in the east. Maintain a balance, and then put K-Shah in it's place as Genghis Khan did.

[Brother Duncan]

I say don't remove any.

Despite the fact that I've never touched Aragon, I think they keep things interesting in their area. They create another obstacle for both France, Spain, Portugal, The Moors, and Genoa. Without Aragon, it's much easier to quickly eat up that territory without much of a fight.

Now I've found Norway to be exciting to play, they're almost exactly like Denmark for the most part, but they do several key things that make the campaign more interesting:

1) They give Denmark something to think about. Denmark normally steamrolls Scandinavia and swarms out into the rest of europe with a massive set of territories that usually don't get eaten up by anyone else. I've seen Russia and Lithuania move for that island off the coast, but that's maybe once or twice each.

2) They raid the United Kingdom area. Scotland and England usually duke it out for 400 billion years unless one of them gets lucky (or is being played by one of us), and Norway helps shake things up a bit.

3) It's Norway. Norway moved on to fight Russians on ski's. Don't we owe them a place in our hearts due to pure awesome? Black Metal? Open Sandwiches? Fishing Exports? One of the lowest homicide rates in the world? No?

And Genoa... Genoa has always had a place of loathing in my heart. Never before has a faction backstabbed me with artistic precision like Genoa. Despite these ... repetitive aggressions, I think that Genoa should stay, if nothing else to give the French and the Holy Roman Empire something to think about, and especially to help keep Venice from Scooping up too much territory early on.

Plus their late cavalry make me happy.

[JorisofHolland]

Weren't the Templars and Kingdom of Jerusalem merged? Then we should have a free faction slot, and probably a few unit slots as well.

[Pleiades]

Removing any faction can actually hurt RL people who identifies themselves with those factions (as it happened with Ireland already).

There is already division for Early and Late campaign, which is good because everyone can choose according to their own preferences.

I do not see a reason why not make two independent campaigns, so that each individual choose according to his/her own preferences, Those two campaigns would be:

1)Northwest-centric campaign: With Ireland, Aragon, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, but without Timurids, Georgia or even Jerusalem.

2)Southeast-centric campaign: Removing Ireland, Aragon, Norway, Genoa and adding Serbia, Bulgaria, Georgia.

In this way I believe ALL people would be satisfied. For example, if I choose to play with Norway in northwest-centric campaign, I really do not care much what is happening on the opposite side of the map. And in reverse, if I choose to play with Georgia, is it Norway or Denmark leading force in Scandinavia, I really do not care because it is far away from most of my activities near Middle East...

[Sanderlicious]

To anyone currently on this project...

Would it be possible to roll this sub-mod up with a patch of sorts to fix some of the major issue such as the banner fix or possibly a recruiting without RR fix?

[Theseus1234]

To anyone currently on this project...

Would it be possible to roll this sub-mod up with a patch of sorts to fix some of the major issue such as the banner fix or possibly a recruiting without RR fix?

Those problems have already been fixed. Look around the forums before you ask. Check this link here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=378648 and look under "problems"

If you want to run a campaign without RR, run the exe in your SS6.3 folder and start a new early or late campaign with RR disabled. There should be a checkbox to disable RR. Also, check the submods forum. There's a submod called "Building based recruitment" that removes RR completely.

3,000th post!

[Sanderlicious]

Those problems have already been fixed. Look around the forums before you ask. Check this link here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=378648 and look under "problems"

If you want to run a campaign without RR, run the exe in your SS6.3 folder and start a new early or late campaign with RR disabled. There should be a checkbox to disable RR. Also, check the submods forum. There's a submod called "Building based recruitment" that removes RR completely.

3,000th post!

I have been around enough to know where compendium is and realize that the fix is available. Thing is, I was using the banners as an example as there are many small fixes to be made in game and was simply questioning whether many of these would be included with the single installation of the Georgia sub-mod.

I also have realized that "Building based recruitment" is available, however only just a minute ago did Huene clearly state that he was going to go through and fix recruitment with RR disabled as the current patch still does not completely fix the issue.

Please read the second post of each of the threads you recommended to me; you'll noticed that I am the first to comment on both...

[Seether]

To anyone currently on this project...

Would it be possible to roll this sub-mod up with a patch of sorts to fix some of the major issue such as the banner fix or possibly a recruiting without RR fix?

The banner issue definitely, it's just a simple copy+paste. The disable RR bug, not sure. Sorry I can't be more concise on the RR bug, but I really don't know.

[Sanderlicious]

The banner issue definitely, it's just a simple copy+paste. The disable RR bug, not sure. Sorry I can't be more concise on the RR bug, but I really don't know.

Thats what I figured... but Huene is working the RR bug out I believe.

[charles the hammer]

Weren't the Templars and Kingdom of Jerusalem merged? Then we should have a free faction slot, and probably a few unit slots as well.

I thought so to, I heard it was because it might slow it down a little but how much could it actually slow it down?

[chris7ian]

I would remove Aragon, and the Timurids. Then add Flanders and Georgia plus rename Crusader States to the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem. Sweden would be a nice addition if there was enough of scandanavia to support them.

I know Flanders wasnt as prominent as Aragon but for gameplay I think they would be better to keep HRE around and prevent Scotland and Norway from taking Holland. I say focus on europe not the middle east but thats me.

[Ichon]

I would vote to remove Scotland... so many games I see them beat England and then do nothing for 100 turns since England loses Caen and Scotland doesn't capture it they remain stuck on the island. Plus historically they were barely united as a real kingdom for much of the time. In name sure, but squabbling nobles half of whom were in fact also English lords- eh. Scotland should be strong rebels so England doesn't manage to get that territory for a long time but also allows England to focus on France and Norway- would help HRE there as well.

Next would be Timurids... they come on the scene so late in early campaign I'd rather see a stronger Mongol invasion. Or Timur could just be represented by a 2nd Mongol invasion.

Norway could be eliminated from the late campaign but it would be a shame in the early campaign when its tempting to extend the age of Viking raids or vie with England and the other Scandinavian powers.

Finally- although I love Genoa and Italy is really fun with the 4 factions there maybe ok if they were represented as strong rebels. Otherwise France and HRE have that extra pressure that can undo them. I'd hate for that to happen but the flowering of Genoa lasted only a couple hundred years and for most of that time Venice was the more important Italian city.

NOT Aragon! The balance in Spain is perfect as it is and Aragon is one of the more interesting factions.

Units to consolidate- look at mercenaries, and AOR units in Spain, Balkans, Eastern Europe, what I mean with AOR units is some of those factions could share a bit more units. Not alot, but even 1 or 2 more could free 5-6 unique units for another faction.

Regions to remove- I think Rhodes could definitely go. It is such a tiny island to get its own region plus in medieval era did not have much power or effect at all.

If Scotland stays could be made into 2 regions rather than 3 as 3 gives it disproportionate power vs England. Ireland might even be made 1 region as well since usually only human player ever capture it. Ancona might be possible to remove and add another region into Balkans/Croatia.

Scandinavia could have Uppsala and a region next to it consolidated since I also think they tend to get disproportionally powerful competing directly with HRE despite having historically much less population and income.

Added regions- Anatolia(to create more room for Turks and Georgia- southern and SW Anatolia- Bohemia, Burgundy. Having Genoa right next to Marseilles makes ok but then Lyons right above? Could be something else there- strong rebels to represent Burgundy? So keep that area quiet a bit longer before 3 faction sharing a border. Bern and the region just north of it are very, very close... maybe make that a single region and again add something between Marseilles and Lyons and Milan...?