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Thread: Hungarian and Central European History

  1. #1
    Mihai Bogdan's Avatar Laetus
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    Default Hungarian and Central European History

    Hello community Magyar mod ! Your mod is very pretty, good job! I say this because I like Central European Medieval age (Holy Roman Empire, Bohemia, Poland, Hungary ). But I have some questions that are in my head for a very very long time. Please excuse me if somehow I do off-topic:

    1. I know that in the Middle Age Hungarian kingdom was almost Catholic, I mean all the Hungarians were Catholic. When did Hungarians (a percentage of them) became Protestant and why? I suppose there was a reaction against Holy Roman Emperor (Habsburg Archduke of Austria )
    2. I studied at school that Transylvania was an autonomous principality under Ottoman suzeranity.I know that Hungary was somehow split in two parts after Ottoman occupation of Buda : one independent which is the state mentioned above (Eastern Hungary) under Zapolia/Szapolyai family and the other inherited by the Habsburgs because the Holy Roman Emperor of that time was relative with Hungarian king Louis II of Hungary and Bohemia. My question is why the Holy Roman Emperor through a general like Basta was so implicated in Transylvania's politics as this state was occupied by Habsburgs? I think that the Holy Roman Emperor considered this Principality a puppet state.
    3. I saw on youtube that Prinz Eugen Marsch which is Austrian was adopted by Hungary and it is called Prinz Eugen indulo I know that Austria was always an enemy of Hungary but many hungarians like this historical figure tough he ended with the Principality of Transylvania's independence.
    4. Where the Austrians come from ? I know that they do not consider themselves germans, they say they are celtic tough the Babenberg family originated from Franconia, Bavaria that should make the Austrians german. Are they german ?

    Thank you for your questions, your response values for me a lot as I am interested to know history (including yours) and not to fight with your countrymen.

  2. #2
    NikeBG's Avatar Sampsis
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    Default Re: Hungarian and Central European History

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihai Bogdan View Post
    4. Where the Austrians come from ? I know that they do not consider themselves germans, they say they are celtic tough the Babenberg family originated from Franconia, Bavaria that should make the Austrians german. Are they german ?
    There was a thread in the VV on that matter some time ago.

  3. #3
    shikaka's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Hungarian and Central European History

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihai Bogdan View Post
    1. I know that in the Middle Age Hungarian kingdom was almost Catholic, I mean all the Hungarians were Catholic. When did Hungarians (a percentage of them) became Protestant and why? I suppose there was a reaction against Holy Roman Emperor (Habsburg Archduke of Austria )
    - catholics preached in latin, not hungarian (it was more understandable and felt closer)
    - at the battle of Mohács (1526) lots of high ranking catholic priests died (2 archbishops, 5 bishops) there was no catholic figure to organize the 'defense' of the catholic faith
    - leading magnates used the new faith to take away the riches of the catholic church, and promoted protestant faith (this way they could keep the former church land)

    Also, the emberor couldn't really do anything, it was too far away from Vienna.

    There were parts in Hungary where catholics were still a majority, for example in Kassa (Kosice).


    My question is why the Holy Roman Emperor through a general like Basta was so implicated in Transylvania's politics as this state was occupied by Habsburgs? I think that the Holy Roman Emperor considered this Principality a puppet state.
    The prince before Basta, Báthory Zsigmond (Sigismund Bathory) resigned, and offered the throne to Rudolf II. Until the emperors forces were driven out by Bocskay István (Stephen Bocskay), Basta did pretty much he wanted.

    It is possible that that Passuth László's book 'Sárkányfoog' (dragonteeth) is available in romanian, worth checking if you are interested in this period.

    3. I saw on youtube that Prinz Eugen Marsch which is Austrian was adopted by Hungary and it is called Prinz Eugen indulo I know that Austria was always an enemy of Hungary but many hungarians like this historical figure tough he ended with the Principality of Transylvania's independence.
    Eugen di Savoy to hungairans were more like 'beater of turks' then the 'scourge of Transylvania'

  4. #4
    Mihai Bogdan's Avatar Laetus
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    Default Re: Hungarian and Central European History

    The scourge of Transylvania ? Sorry but I didn't understand was he enemy or ally for Hungarians ?

  5. #5
    Csatádi's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Hungarian and Central European History

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihai Bogdan View Post
    1. I know that in the Middle Age Hungarian kingdom was almost Catholic, I mean all the Hungarians were Catholic. When did Hungarians (a percentage of them) became Protestant and why? I suppose there was a reaction against Holy Roman Emperor (Habsburg Archduke of Austria )
    Reformation was a general trend in the 16th century.
    Counter-reformation started in Hungary with Rudolf II, Holy Roman Emperor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_..._Roman_Emperor


    2. I studied at school that Transylvania was an autonomous principality under Ottoman suzeranity.I know that Hungary was somehow split in two parts after Ottoman occupation of Buda : one independent which is the state mentioned above (Eastern Hungary) under Zapolia/Szapolyai family and the other inherited by the Habsburgs because the Holy Roman Emperor of that time was relative with Hungarian king Louis II of Hungary and Bohemia. My question is why the Holy Roman Emperor through a general like Basta was so implicated in Transylvania's politics as this state was occupied by Habsburgs? I think that the Holy Roman Emperor considered this Principality a puppet state.
    Both Szapolyai János and Ferdinand I wanted the whole Hungary. Basta was a general of Ferdinand.


    3. I saw on youtube that Prinz Eugen Marsch which is Austrian was adopted by Hungary and it is called Prinz Eugen indulo I know that Austria was always an enemy of Hungary but many hungarians like this historical figure tough he ended with the Principality of Transylvania's independence.
    Prinz Eugen was a general of the Habsburgs and not Hungarian. Adopted by Hungary means the emperor ordered the Hungarian council to adopt him. However I suppose he was popular in Hungary after he defeated the Turks.
    I'm quite sure the average Hungarian (99,9%) doesn't know his name and deeds.
    Austria was sometimes and enemy sometimes an ally, sometimes enemy and ally at once.
    Last edited by Csatádi; August 08, 2010 at 06:31 PM.

  6. #6
    shikaka's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Hungarian and Central European History

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihai Bogdan View Post
    The scourge of Transylvania ? Sorry but I didn't understand was he enemy or ally for Hungarians ?

    Both

    The 'scourge' is exaggerated of course, I was trying to say the Eugen was mostly seen as a turk beater, but he was not really a friend.
    He defeated the turks (which was a good thing for most hungarians back then), but he did it for his liege, not for the hungarians. (which was a negative thing)


    Also, you should also consider what 'hungarian' meant back then, AND the aims of the hungarians living at the different parts of the county.
    For example the hungarians who already were ruled by the Habsburg didn't really mind the independence of Transylvania, because the ottomans at the neighbourhood were a more important thing.

    A later example: How much the catholic inhabitants of Kassa liked the army of the Transylvanian prince, Bethlen, whose first thing was to sack the catholic church of the city, as he was reformed?

    An other on Habsburgs/Basta/Transylvania: actually, turkish aid was asked for by the Transylvanian prince against the Habsburgs, because they considered Habsburgs a bigger threat then the weakening Ottos.


    A very strange and interesting period

  7. #7
    matmohair1's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Hungarian and Central European History

    Hungarian warriors (IX-XIII cc.) Illustrated by Igor Dzis
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Last edited by matmohair1; December 09, 2011 at 06:10 AM.


  8. #8

    Default Hungarian and Central European History - Cuman and Hungarian Soldiers in the Saint Ladislaus legend

    Cuman and Hungarian Soldiers in the Saint Ladislaus legend including:
    Mural in the Székelyderzs (Dârjiu) Unitarian Church, Romania. Painted in 1419

    The Saint Ladislaus legend in the Fresco of the Velka Lomnica church, Slovakia, around 1317.
    The Saint Ladislaus legend in the Fresco of the Catholic church of Gelence (Ghelinďa), Románia, early 14th century
    The Saint Ladislaus legend in the Anjou Legendarium, Vatican Library, c.1330
    The Saint Ladislaus legend in the Fresco of the Türje church, western Hungary, middle of the 14th century
    The Saint Ladislaus legend in the Church of Maksa, Romania, middle of the 14th century
    The Saint Ladislaus legend in the Képes Krónika, 1360
    The Saint Ladislaus legend in the Church of Sepsikilyén, Transylvania, second half of the 14th century
    The Saint Ladislaus legend in the Unitarian Church of Homoródkarácsonyfalva / Craeciunel / Krötschendorf, Romania, c.14th century
    The Saint Ladislaus legend in Andreaskirche, Liptovský Ondrej, Slovakia, 1370-1380
    The Saint Ladislaus legend in the Church of Rimavska Bana (Rimabánya), Slovakia, after 1375
    The Saint Ladislaus legend in the Church of Bántornya, Slovenia, 1383
    The Saint Ladislaus legend in All Saints' Roman Catholic Church of Bijacovce (Szepesmindszent), Slovakia, second half of the 14th or first quarter of the 15th century
    The Saint Ladislaus legend in the Unitarian Church of Chilieni (Sepsikilyén), Romania, late 14th century
    The Saint Ladislaus legend in the Fresco of the Tereske church, northern Hungary, turn of the 14th-15th centuries
    The Saint Ladislaus legend in the Fresco of the Bibarcfalva (Biborteni) church, Romania, early 15th century
    The Saint Ladislaus legend in the Register of Hungarian Students in Vienna, 1453
    The Saint Ladislaus legend in the Póniky (Pónik) Roman Catholic Church, c.1478.
    The Saint Ladislaus legend in the Chronicle of Johannes de Thurocz (Thuróczy János), 1488

    Paintings and drawings based on the above:
    Cuman warrior, 13th century by Angus McBride from Mounted Archers of the Steppe 600 BC - AD 1300 by A.Karasulas
    Cuman Mercenary c1300 by Angus McBride from Byzantine Armies 1118-1461 AD by Ian Heath
    Cuman Mercenary 14th Century from Byzantine Armies 1118-1461 AD by Ian Heath
    Cuman, 12th-13th centuries, from Armies of Feudal Europe 1066-1300 by Ian Heath
    Hungarian Knight, 13th century, from Armies of Feudal Europe 1066-1300 by Ian Heath
    and Cuman in an extract from Armies and Enemies of the Crusades 1096-1291 by Ian Heath


    MIRROR SITE:
    Cuman and Hungarian Soldiers in the Saint Ladislaus legend

    Druzhina345
    Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

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