Defending siege 101

[Kawee]

I was quite surprised to find out that a lot of people, when defending sieges, chose to retreat to the city square. I think this is due to the fact that they do not know proper defensive tactics. Anyone who does will agree with me that defending at the gates and walls is the best way to defend. So in this thread, I thought I would give some basic tactical outlines. I am hopelessly noobish when it comes to computer so I have no idea how to create a video clip. Instead, I will have to go old school, and use paint

Basic Siege Defense

A: Archers I: Infantry Infantry The infantry is broken up into two groups. 1. Holding the gate 2. Holding the wall That is all they're there for. For Group one, I prefer spearmen since that's where cavalry will charge in. Do not put them too close together. You want ample room for the enemies to rush into the "kill zone." But not too far apart that they will get over-run. As you can see, at least three units are needed. For Group Two, I prefer swordmen since they're most likely to face some elite infantry, or worse, trolls up on the wall. Usually a unit is enough. If there is no more threat to the wall, have them run down the tower on the far side, and keep them behind as back-up in case the infantry holding the gate gets overrun. Archers It's the archers job to do the killing. Notice that none of them are shooting over the wall. Why? Because it doesn't have clear line of sight and therefore it'll do very little damage. What a waste of good arrows. You do your killing in two different spots. The first one is the enemies coming up the wall. They arrive first, but they are few. They will turn to fight your infantry on the wall. This will open up their back to your arrows. Fire at them, and they will route after about 6-7 rounds. The next spot is the main killing zone. Once the gate is broken down the enemies will flood in. WAIT! Wait till they've flooded in. Wait until there's a substantial amount of them around. Why? Because if there's only a few of them, your arrows will miss, and against overwhelming odds, you need every arrow to count. If there are many of them, your arrows have more chances to hit something. It should take about 30 seconds. A lot of them may still be outside the gate receiving the inferno waterfall that is the boiling oil. Most of them will be inside the gate, surrounded on three sides. At this point, you fire into that block of enemies. There are just so many of them, I think 80% of the arrows just won't miss (doesn't mean it'll be a kill though.) Notice the line of fire I drawn up. Notice how the archers are not firing at their closest enemies. That would be stupid. That would be stupid because the arrows will be going into the front of the enemies, and since many of them have shields, they won't die as much. It's also stupid because any arrows that fall short will hit your own troops right in the back. Talk about friendly fire. No, you go for the enemies on the far side, then the situation is reversed. You hit your enemy in the back, killing more, and any over hit arrows will hit your own troops in the front, where they have shields to protect them, killing less. The enemies fighting the middle infantry line get hit on the side no matter which direction the arrows are coming from, so they die just as well. One you see the morale of the troops lowered, start using fire arrows. That'll get them routing pretty fast, and don't be afraid of the lowered accuracy. There is usually so many enemies in their killing zone, especially against orcs, that it'll be harder for your arrow to miss than to hit. And that, ladies and gentleman, is lesson one of Defending Siege 101.

Alternative Set Up

In the case that the side walls are too far away (which will lower your archer's accuracy,) or doesn't exists (eg. Huge Cities) you can place your archers on the same wall as your infantry as described: Good one. +rep If those side walls are too far away (accuracy decreases over distance) then you can put the archers up against the other end of that bit of front wall. i.e. Put infantry up one end where the ladders are and archers on the other side of the enemy firing into their backs. Disadvantages of the alternative setup: - Not all of your archers will have clear sight at the enemies below - It cannot fire at the enemies that are too close to the wall - It may end up in a melee fight, so make sure you put them as far away as possible, without compromising too much of it's accuracy. Also, if the enemy on the wall doesn't engage your infantry on the wall, you have to manually engage them yourselves.

The Inclusion of Ballista

A Ballista can be a valuable addition to any defense. It's main advantages are: 1. It can rack up a good number of kills, due to it's piercing missiles, sometimes killing 10 people with a shot. 2. It's a one kill, EVERYTIME (Except for Mumakil and Ents, I think.) Therefore very useful for killing the general units 3. The fire projectiles will rout enemies very fast. Enemy's morale does not drop simply because one of it's troop is burning. But it'll fall like a rock if 7-8 of them burn simultaneously. Imagine what it can achieve. Every shot (remember there are two of them in each unit) can kill/burn 10+ enemies, and they kill indiscriminately whether the enemies are snagas or Iron Guards or Elrond. I: Infantry A: Archers B: Ballista I/C: Infantry or Cavalry For this set up to work, you need a particular type of city design. The type where there is a straight road from the gate. The set up is very similar to the first set up I showed. Infantry You have two infantry units holding the wall. You have a box created by the infantry, to hold the enemy at the gate. Notice though, that in this set up, there is no middle infantry line. Although I did not show this very well in my "drawing" try to line up the infantry between the wall and the buildings. Why? First of all, it is because you no longer have the middle infantry line, so you don't want your men to get outflanked. Second of all, if the ballistas misfire, you don't want the missiles to kill a bunch of your men, so take cover behind the buildings. Archers The Archers do the same job every time. Kill the enemies on the wall, and then kill the block of enemies in front of the gate. Ballistas The Ballista job is to kill. But it's all about micromanaging. Like with the archers, do not have "fire at will on," and do not fire at first sight. The ballistas are not particularly accurate, and it takes a long time to reload so you want to get every shot, including the first, to count. Wait until a block of enemy has been formed in front of the gate. Then fire away. Turn on the fire projectile right off the bat. First of all, it lowers morale significantly due to the high number of people getting burned each time. Second of all, there are so many enemies there, you can hardly miss even with the lowered accuracy. And finally, it helps you to see where the missiles are going because personally, I find it almost impossible to see where the missile was shot if it's not on fire. Notice also, the line of fire I showed. Like the archers, I did not have it fire at the nearest enemies. Why? Because if it falls short, it doesn't hit anyone. By having it fire to enemies on the far side, when fired properly, it'll kill/burn everything in it's path to that last unfortunate guy at the back. This is how it rack up kills. Backup Infantry/Cavalry You only need one unit here, either an infantry or a cavalry. Personally, I like to use my general unit. Their job is simple, protect the ballistas. When overwhelmingly outnumbered, the enemies tend to flood over and move towards the ballistas. If they pose a danger, fight them off with this unit (that is why I prefer my general unit because I need them to successfully repel the enemies. If they fail, my ballistas become useless, and there goes my masterplan.) and retreat to behind the ballistas once the job is done. Make sure your ballistas stop firing so that they won't accidentally kill your own units.

[MasterBigAb]

Lol much work you put into it, but looks like a good deployment, i'll move this to guides where it belongs to - pls use this thread of yours, too when you update with balistas/catapults and/or trebuchets...

[roodbaard67]

I gonna try it out.

[.:Zack Fair:.]

+rep for the guide, useful!

[hospitaller13]

personally if outnumbered badly i find the best tatic is to man the towers as the enemy advances then retreat to the city square as your men will not rout in that area, fighting to the last man

[Withwnar]

Good one. +rep

If those side walls are too far away (accuracy decreases over distance) then you can put the archers up against the other end of that bit of front wall. i.e. Put infantry up one end where the ladders are and archers on the other side of the enemy firing into their backs.

And flaming arrows can cause routing sooner. EDIT: oh, you mentioned that.

[Red_Devil]

very nice tutorial.

I also do use about the same tactics.

but the problem is also for settlements without walls or with a palissade.
In my case, I put some infantry in an L formation at the breached opening in the wall, and close this L with archers a bit further. normally, the infantry units are like magnets to the ennemy forces and you can shoot without problem in their backs at a pretty close range with fire or normal arrows. I also keep my cavalry behind my archers in case some smart ennemy decide to charge my archers and also to charge the ennemy stack from time to time...

hope you find it smart and useful

[Gpower]

Very nice guide! I hadn't usually taken into account of archers firing other then over the walls.

However, I want to add that in my experience it's good to have a reserve unit of cavalry or 2 in the city square. This is because once the enemy charge through the gates (and I don't have archers firing on them usually), they gets really packed and pushes my infantry defending the gates back (usually killing a whole lot of them). I don't know why the is the case but once your infantry began to get pushed back, charge the cavalry in the town square to the gates and you'll find that your cavalry will push them back and completely slaughter them with few losses.

[Regular]

Nice guide. I would also like to add that javelins behind the gate infantry or the balista position works too.
In SS, i usually place spanish javelins behind terico pikemen and it usually leads to heroic victories.

[Toshach]

I use essentially the same tactic for defending cities. However, I also use a variation. When possible, I try to plug the gate with infantry and cavalry. In other words when the gate is broken, I send my units into the breach in order to delay the enemy from entering for as long as possible. This exposes more enemy units to boiling oil for a longer time.

Sooner or later, a superior enemy will push through at the gate, or will capture the walls, and then you have no choice but to fall back and defend the city from the streets. In these situations, I stack my infantry units one behind the other in the most direct street between the gate and the square, and back them up with archers. It becomes a battle of attrition. Cavalry are kept to the rear to deal with enemies taking an alternate route. At a critical point (when the enemy seems about to break you, or you break the enemy), I send your cavalry around the enemy flanks, and attack them from the rear. If you time it right, even a superior enemy will break. I have plucked victory from certain defeat in this manner on a number of occasions.

[Kawee]

I use essentially the same tactic for defending cities. However, I also use a variation. When possible, I try to plug the gate with infantry and cavalry. In other words when the gate is broken, I send my units into the breach in order to delay the enemy from entering for as long as possible. This exposes more enemy units to boiling oil for a longer time.

Sooner or later, a superior enemy will push through at the gate, or will capture the walls, and then you have no choice but to fall back and defend the city from the streets. In these situations, I stack my infantry units one behind the other in the most direct street between the gate and the square, and back them up with archers. It becomes a battle of attrition. Cavalry are kept to the rear to deal with enemies taking an alternate route. At a critical point (when the enemy seems about to break you, or you break the enemy), I send your cavalry around the enemy flanks, and attack them from the rear. If you time it right, even a superior enemy will break. I have plucked victory from certain defeat in this manner on a number of occasions.

The problem with fighting a war of attrition is that it defeats the whole purpose of using the advantage of defending a city. Fighting a war of attrition is not a smart move against overwhelming forces. You might get away with one or two battles, but if you're constantly under siege (Like I was in SS 6.2 playing the Crusader States and defending Jerusalem against Jihad stacks after stacks) you can't afford it. You need a tactic that will allow you to route the enemies as soon as possible, and with as little casualties as possible. Even if you only kill 40% of the enemies, and they route, you can "kill" the rest very easily by capturing them. Remember, in a lot of cases, you don't even get to retrain your troops in between turn due to lack of money, or constant siege.

[David93]

I think in theory it's very good but i tried it in reality, and the ladders/ siege towers seemed to hit the middle of the infantry and therefore made the archers useless.

How do you set up when defending a siege, when they are charging towards the walls?

I usually just set my archers on the frontal walls and use my generals body guard to harasses his infantry with the siege equipment, which they will drop every time they are charged, which means the enemy wont reach the walls. Eventually when one ladder or tower hits the walls the a.i. will try to push all his men through it, but if you simply pack that wall with men the a.i. will come up one at a time and get slaughtered and then route then the next one will advance and this will repeat. You will lose hardly any men and if you don't have enough men to defend a siege properly, it's very effective.

I also had a problem with the walls being to far away for the archers to get a good shot and the towers blocked the ability of the archers to shoot the infantry on the same wall.

[delra]

As much as it's fun to shoot ballista arrows into enemy crowd, I think a bunch of crappiest archers would deal more damage and reduce morale faster... Tried playing it twice with archers and ballista and archers grabbed more kills. I hate Ballista in city defense cause positioning them right in that forward street is a huge PITA while moving archers there is far easier. They also can run away from enemy if he decides to push for them - or whack him with their little soldiers if need be.

Feel free to call that the 4th method and include into your guide after some Paint work. ;-)

[Simoes]

Great guide, unfortonaley for me you forget the most efficient weapon in defence siege , sharpened stakes behind the gates!!

[Panda909]

Great guide, unfortonaley for me you forget the most efficient weapon in defence siege , sharpened stakes behind the gates!!

Only is the enemy has a decent amount of cavalry.

I tend to go with spears, or pikes if I have them to hold them at the gate to maximise the burning oil. Archers above the gate where ladders and towers can't get to them. Have a few units of heavy infantry in reserve to be moved onto the walls to intercept the enemy ladders and towers. Archers all on the walls moving them away from anywhere that ladders or towers are coming in

[Flavio]

Vrey good strategy! I will try today.
+rep

[roodbaard67]

I did it already 1 time say but i'm gonna try it out(the two that i yet not did try out.)

[Miroslav Klose]

I already used the 3 strategy, it´s great, catapults can be used too even though they´re a bit inaccurate, they massacre even more

[el Cid]

I like this guide, I use a similar setup. +rep

One small thing though, what I always do if I have cavalry (mostly generals of course) I deploy them at one of the side gates and send them out from those once the battle begins, then once the gate is breached and the enemies pour in you direct your cavalry to charge into their backs, this will mostly cause a massive rout.

[emanb56]

i use the same tactics and a trick i learned is that if the enemy gets on the walls pull a unit of archers a way from them and them have them shoot at them rather than to fight hand to hand.. the enemy will charge at them, stop and the archers will unload into them and slowly push them back..the enemy literally cant get to them bc they r constantly pelted by arrows. Try it out sometime