Speculation thread?

[CountMRVHS]

Since ModRealms seems still down, I've been unable to get my fix of speculation on the full-map version of FATW, or updates in that nice big questions thread. Far be it from me to want to slow down the whole process with pesky questions, but I'm only human (for now...).

I remember in one of the threads there were some images of the full map. I don't know if any changes have been made since those were posted, but are there any links to the most recent full-map images, particularly images of the northern half?

Also, there had been some discussion about inter-faction diplomacy - making some factions permanent allies with others, so you didn't have an Elf-RK war break out. What's the most recent scoop on that dimension of the game?

And finally (well, not finally, but close enough for this post), had there been any word on victory conditions for factions such as Dale, the Elves, and the Dwarves? I know the Elves and Dwarves in particular had some interesting starting positions, but I wasn't sure exactly how much or where they'd need to conquer to win, or even if that had been figured out yet.

I'll take any replies, from wild rumors to dev-backed facts - just need my fix!

[Aradan]

Here are some wild rumours for you:

Map: Since the strat-map visuals are Eorl's domain, I'll let him post a pic, if he wants to. Rest assured we are constantly improving things, in every (literally) aspect of the camp-map, from textures to HRs.

Diplomacy: The current set-up is this: RK shares with Elves the same type of alliance that Dale shares with Dwarves, which means that the AI will not break those alliances. The player however has the option to break them, if one wishes to.

Victory conditions: Dale will have a 'standard' VCs type, along the lines of "conquer X regions, including this and that". We are still debating the Elven and Dwarven VCs, but we'll try to make them more lore-friendly than "conquer 40 regions". We are not using scripts and the VC file offers limited options, so this will be a trivky issue.

[CountMRVHS]

Thanks, Aradan. The diplomacy solution sounds like a good one.

we'll try to make them more lore-friendly than "conquer 40 regions". We are not using scripts and the VC file offers limited options, so this will be a trivky issue.

Understood. Is "Outlast Faction X" a possible victory condition in the game? I know it was in Rome, but not sure if it's possible in BI. If so, I suppose one condition could be that the Elves/Dwarves outlast Adunabar. Though that could be very frustrating if you had to truck all the way through Mordor to win.

I guess part of the answer depends upon what settlements are available on the strat map, and what settlements those factions begin with. If the Elven faction begins play in possession of all "Elvish" regions - including (these are just guesses) Forlindon, Harlindon, the Grey Havens, Rivendell, Eregion/Hollin, Lorien, & Greenwood regions (I think I remember seeing "Mirkwood" split into 2 or 3 regions) - then I'd have a hard time suggesting any particular settlements for VCs, other than a general condition to "go kill bad guys".

On the other hand, if some of those Elvish regions are left in the hands of rebels, the Elf player would be in the unpalatable position of having to invade & kill those rebels - and maybe another "good" faction, like the RK, would have gotten there first.

For the Dwarves, I see things as being a bit easier. There are lots of potential mountain fastnesses around the map, and some of them could be filled with rebel Dwarves at game start; Dwarves fighting rebel Dwarves seems more palatable to me for some reason.

[Aradan]

The outlive option still exists, but BI introduced a certain issue, where more than 4 lines of code for a faction's VCs breaks the VC screen on the campaign faction menu. We'll figure sth out. But outliving someone can be hard, especially if that someone has managed to take a settlement a gazillion miles from your nearest settlement, and you have to go through friendly and enemy territory to get him, while having no way to re-supply your armies with fresh troops.

[CountMRVHS]

Yeah, I really can't picture who the Elves should "outlast" anyway. Adunabar is more RK's problem, and Rhun and Harad are too far away.

I imagine the Elves and Dwarves would have far fewer settlements to conquer for victory - maybe 20 would be OK, depending on how many regions are in the North, but more than that might be too much. Only thing I can think of would be to have some rebel settlements in Mirkwood and the Lindon/coast region for the elves to take - or to have those settlements occupied by bad guys like Adunabar.

As for the Dwarves, again it depends on number of new settlements, but I could see them with a couple settlements in the Blue Mountains, several settlements in the Misty Mtns. (from Moria up to Mt. Gundabad - some of which might be occupied by rebel orcs or baddies), a settlement or two in the Grey Mtns., and the Erebor/Iron Hills area. Beyond that, there already is a rebel Dwarf settlement in the mtns. near the Sea of Rhun - could be a settlement required for their VCs. It depends how many they start off with, I guess... but a campaign to take back rebel regions in the Misty/Grey Mtns. might work, if the Dwarves start off with the other regions.

[Éorl]

Map: Since the strat-map visuals are Eorl's domain, I'll let him post a pic, if he wants to. Rest assured we are constantly improving things, in every (literally) aspect of the camp-map, from textures to HRs.

I'll post some screenies on saturday, if I find the time.

[Agamemnon]

Is it possible for you to make a new provincial campaign that includes Arnor, The Misty Mountains, and the far north? If it is possible, I can make it, but I will need help. If someone else has made one, please post a link.

[Aradan]

You mean for FATW3 or for the current public version?

[Agamemnon]

You mean for FATW3 or for the current public version?

I really don't care; the fact that the North was missing was the only thing that I didn't like about the mod (though the RK could do with some more unit for the North, as the ones that they have now are suited to the South, and the North would require more ranger-like units).

[StealthEvo]

Are you planning to redo the houseing system at all, or simply just add the relevant housess for Dale et al like the current system works.

[Aradan]

Define "redo" please. You mean add more houses or change the way it works?

[StealthEvo]

My bad. :p. Change the way it works.

[Aradan]

We're open to suggestions. What do you want to be different?

[StealthEvo]

Overall. I dont have any issues with the system you've got working at the moment. I think it works perfectly as intended I can't see any reason why it shouldn't be different

However, the little voice in the back of my mind has been thinking over various things, largely due to the help you gave me with my own little improvements. If and this is a big IF. There was time to implement something along the lines that i've been toying around with

IE Situational adopted generals that meet certain criterion apon character generation and then meet the percentage chance get membership of a house. That has a much more specalised and adaptive role depending on the house (not +1 command ect.) But lets say taking a Rohanite house and giving it a boost to movement speed wheras comparitivily using the Afraid of horse's trait and if they arn't a member of a house they get a chance to join a certain house that gives them a bonus to infantry command and a subtraction to movement points as a balancing factor. Then that leads to X amount of Trait and Ancillary tree's so it's obviously alot more work then just saying. Put some more houses in and do this, this and this. I know this from first hand experience as well you know.

Likewise playing on this it allows for potential if a player likes nurtering his generals and traits it allows for much more strategic play. So it's potentially attracting another group of players. But like I said. I don't want it to be different. I'm perfectly happy with the system as it is. I'm just looking for ways which are in theory do able (i've got no idea how much my own little pet project is going to slow things down) and add to the game for other people.

[Aradan]

I don't think it would look good with adopted characters, but it might be good with guys getting married into a house; they could either become members of that house or be parts of a 'lesser' house (or both maybe, but that will require a re-working of the system). I'll think about it...

As for the bonuses, dunno, it seems wrong to give attribute bonuses or whatever for belonging to a house, apart from Influence. Why would members of X rohirric house move faster on the strat map and members of Y slower? DO all members of house X get improved Mearas models for them and their bodyguards? But we could perhaps make certain houses more disposed towards certain traits/ancs and less disposed towards some others. It's complicated though and needs much time (and thought).

[StealthEvo]

I agree with the level of difficulty and thought needed. Hence why im hesitant to push this personally. It's fine for me, whose mucking around with it and can cater to my liking. But in the grand scheme of things. You are indeed correct. Why should there be any bonus's given because they are a member of a house. I do agree with the more disposed to acquire certain traits however. Thats probably a better way to go about it. Then to give straight up bonus's

[Aradan]

FATW3 will include all the map, so you can simply wait for it.

[Agamemnon]

YAY! How about more rangers. Can there be different rangers from different places, with different strengths and weaknesses (one with great bow, weak armor, one with great melee, weak missile, etc.)?

[Aradan]

We'll have at least one more unit of rangers, but the game won't turn into a ranger-fest, as it's supposed to be a 'special' unit and it doesn't fit everywhere.

[Agamemnon]

I know, I just was thinking about what units Arnor could have recruitable (since citadel guard would be dumb to recruit in Bree). Rangers sprang to mind, so I made a suggestion (but please give the new rangers longswords like the gallowglasses in bi, it is so much more like LOTR).