Nationalized Healthcare

[JP226]

everytime somebody speaks of healthcare they point to canada.

I found a movie here, it's a bit long. I'm sure those of you who are set in your ways won't take the time but here goes: http://www.onthefencefilms.com/video/deadmeat/

Anyway, your thoughts on the system, not necessarily the movie, but the system as a whole. Good or bad?

[Tom Paine]

Well having had experience of what is supposedly a bad public health system throughtout my life, I actually think its rather good; ittle things like free treatment for all who want it, consultancy on request, and so on are just the beginning of the benefit.

[Erik]

everytime somebody speaks of healthcare they point to canada.

No, Cuba.

[Tom Paine]

Or the UK, if they want to be negative, and where you find actualy quite a healthy populace overall.

[JP226]

You guys do know that in ECO101 all reousrces are limited. Therefore everyone who wants it does NOT get it right? Unless you have some how found a way to upset the economic gods, it's impossible.

[Erik]

You guys do know that in ECO101 all reousrces are limited. Therefore everyone who wants it does NOT get it right? Unless you have some how found a way to upset the economic gods, it's impossible.

Yeah, poor people wil just exploit the system and have heart surgery every week and a kidney transplant every month. :laughing:

No, in reality it does work because the DEMAND on healthcare is also limited.

About the waitinglists:
We don't have free healthcare here in the Netherlandds (one of the worlds most richest nations, mind you) and do we have long waitinglists? HELL YEAH!!!!
If you want to visit my mother, an eye specialist, She can find you a spot....somewhere in 2007 and I am not joking/exhaugerating either.

I think almost every country has waitinglists regardless of free healthcare or not.

PS: I liked the Soviet healthcare system:
Everybody got access to free healthcare but with waiting lists.
Want to skip in line and get treated tomorrow? You can but then you have to pay for it yourself.

PPS: doesn't this video have the WORST "special effects" ever?

[Guderian]

Public healthcare is a very good system, despite the whingers. Putting health care into the hands of individuals is asking for trouble.

Btw thats a very nice sig comrade LOL!

[Tom Paine]

Public healthcare is a very good system, despite the whingers. Putting health care into the hands of individuals is asking for trouble.

Worse: putting it into the hands of individuals who want to use it for profit.

[genghis khan]

It really is a question of just shifting priorities. The US could easily do a socialized healthcare system, problem is that a lot of money is used elsewhere (and in my opinion for things that it shouldnt be spent on) like bridges in Alaska to a town of 50 people *cough pork spending cough*.

Instead of spending billions of dollars in foreign aid to countries that will forever hate the US why not use the money instead to pay off the national debt or put it towards social security or even as part of the budget for a national healthcare system. Sigh.

[Tom Paine]

Supply and demand, as normal. In this case both have limits externally imposed. And this is what causes waiting lists in any system; the relationship between supply and demand (are you saying the US doesn't have waiting lists?)

[Trey]

Supply and demand, as normal. In this case both have limits externally imposed. And this is what causes waiting lists in any system; the relationship between supply and demand (are you saying the US doesn't have waiting lists?)

No, the US doesnt have waiting lists.

[Prince Kassad]

No, the US doesnt have waiting lists.

They simply set up an appointment immediately for within the next month - within the week if the surgery is urgent.

[Tom Paine]

They simply set up an appointment immediately for within the next month - within the week if the surgery is urgent.

So rather than being on the waiting list... you're waiting? Er?

[Prince Kassad]

So rather than being on the waiting list... you're waiting? Er?

You're voluntarily waiting. If you insist on having surgery tomorrow, or even this afternoon, that would almost certainly be possible. But that kind of choice is out of your hands in a government system.

And what if you aren't satisfied with the government system? In a private hospital, you could simply go somewhere else. But if the government is doing it - you're screwed.

[Guderian]

Instead of spending billions of dollars in foreign aid to countries that will forever hate the US

US Foreign Aid for the year of 2001 = US $10-11 Billion or 0.11 of the GNP
US Military Budget for the year of 2001 = $305 billion. Congress increased it to $310 billion.

US Foreign Aid 2004 = $18.9 Billion or 0.16 of the GNP
US Military Budget for the year of 2004 = $399.1 Billion

[Tom Paine]

How bout cutting military spending instead then?

[Guderian]

If the US puts like 20 billion of it's military budget towards foreign aid we could go along way towards abolishing poverty...I think this deserves a new thread.

[Tom Paine]

I was thinking more like improvement of domestic healthcare.

[JP226]

About the waitinglists:
We don't have free healthcare here in the Netherlandds (one of the worlds most richest nations, mind you) and do we have long waitinglists? HELL YEAH!!!!
If you want to visit my mother, an eye specialist, She can find you a spot....somewhere in 2007 and I am not joking/exhaugerating either.

I think almost every country has waitinglists regardless of free healthcare or not.

Why do you have waiting lists do you think? Supply and demand, too much demand and not enough supply creates shortages aka waiting lists. The only waiting list you may experience in the US is time in the waiting room or a real waiting list as you are accustomed to for maybe an organ transplant.

If we need a surgery, whether it's minor or major we get it done. We don't have waiting lists. My girlfriends mother had appendicidus, once she found out, she was under the knife in about 45 minutes. My grandfather had heart problems, under the knife three days later. I broke my arm, had it set and elarned I needed, or better yet could use some additional surgery. I had it done 2 days later. I can go on and on and on. THe problems with US healthcare, things that might hold you up are not rediculous waiting lists, they are called insurance compnaies and tort laws. Other than that supply easily meets demand here in the US.

[Erik]

If we need a surgery, whether it's minor or major we get it done. We don't have waiting lists. My girlfriends mother had appendicidus, once she found out, she was under the knife in about 45 minutes. My grandfather had heart problems, under the knife three days later. I broke my arm, had it set and elarned I needed, or better yet could use some additional surgery. I had it done 2 days later. I can go on and on and on. THe problems with US healthcare, things that might hold you up are not rediculous waiting lists, they are called insurance compnaies and tort laws. Other than that supply easily meets demand here in the US.

Yeah, we don't have waitinglists for VITAL surgery of course.
People wil die if they have appendicidus and aren't treated within a few days.
And emergency is free and wil usually get you a doctor within a half hour or so (I had to wait for one and a half hour last time but it was a realy busy night).

I was talking about waitinglists for my grandmothers hip replacement surgery, it was about two years IIRC.
But if she fell and broke something she would have been treated imediately.

And I think this is also how it works in Canada.