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Thread: David Cameron Vs. Pakistan

  1. #61
    Poet's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: David Cameron Vs. Pakistan

    No it is just that I am not an idiot and neither stubborn to the extent of brutality, so I can clearly understand that when you drop bombs on civilian areas that is what we call "intentional killing", Cameron's state is a terrorist state and is helping terrorism in Iran too. He should be ashamed of talking on terrorism any where.
    "I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion far from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today." 'The Genuine Islam,' Vol. 1, No. 8, 1936.Sir George Bernard Shaw

  2. #62
    Babur's Avatar ز آفتاب درخشان ستاره می
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    Default Re: David Cameron Vs. Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by tarvu View Post
    Yes I know but I'm just saying this was a common result from that policy, and is not proof really that the group and the attacks in Mumbai were wholly external, and should be blamed on Pakistan. I mean clearly there were connections to the group within Pakistan (which also really is the logical place to headquarter such a group) I don't see how anyone can deny that, but the group and their raison d'etre is also an Indian problem. I'm not defending them or their actions, but I will say that it is a bit unfair to paint it as part of an ongoing assault on India by the nation of Pakistan.
    this groups aim was to cause chaos in India's financial capital.There were telephone conversations intercepted between the terrorists and their handlers in Pakistan, you seem to be implying that it was an inside job

    I think hardliners in India incessant accusations that the Pakistani government are state sponsors of terrorism, and accusing them of escalating the conflict in Kashmir via some proxy terrorist war does little to solve the two country's issues, or help Pakistan combat militancy within its borders.
    but there is some truth in what they're saying, Pakistan has a history of sponsoring terrorism in Kashmir since 1989 and in Afghanistan since 1994 (when the Taliban were formed with ISI help in Qandahar).I suggest you read Ahmed Rashid's book on the Taliban


    Pakistan is far from perfect, but the number of militants crossing over the border from Pakistan I think has more to do with demographics (far more Muslims living in India than Hindus living in Pakistan) than the claim that Pakistan is the sole cause of continued belligerence on the subcontinent.
    what does it have to do with the number of Indian Muslims? (my family are among them), these militants cross the LOC from Pakistan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poet View Post
    Their Law you said terrorism is deliberately hitting targets of no military value, I agree, and that's what allies' planes did with civilian areas of Baghdad and Fallujah. Fine Britain! we do not care whatever your terrorist state moans over terrorism anywhere. off
    oh the irony, considering that your country sponsors terrorism but no they're "freedom fighters" to you

    Quote Originally Posted by Poet View Post
    No it is just that I am not an idiot and neither stubborn to the extent of brutality, so I can clearly understand that when you drop bombs on civilian areas that is what we call "intentional killing", Cameron's state is a terrorist state and is helping terrorism in Iran too. He should be ashamed of talking on terrorism any where.
    but when Pakistan sponsors terrorist groups which kills civilians in India and Afghanistan then it is ok?
    Last edited by Babur; August 04, 2010 at 02:06 PM.
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  3. #63
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    Default Re: David Cameron Vs. Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Poet View Post
    No it is just that I am not an idiot and neither stubborn to the extent of brutality, so I can clearly understand that when you drop bombs on civilian areas that is what we call "intentional killing", Cameron's state is a terrorist state and is helping terrorism in Iran too. He should be ashamed of talking on terrorism any where.
    Coalition aircraft has not been deliberately targeting Iraqi civilians. It's war and unfortunately there will always be civilian casualties.


    As for the rest, no Britain is still not a terrorist state and just because you continue to spew out this ridicoulus claim, does not make it true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Babur View Post
    but when Pakistan sponsors terrorist groups which kills civilians in India and Afghanistan then it is ok?
    Yes because Pakistan isn't Western and thus not a brutal crusader terrorist state.

  4. #64
    Their Law's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: David Cameron Vs. Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Poet View Post
    Their Law you said terrorism is deliberately hitting targets of no military value, I agree, and that's what allies' planes did with civilian areas of Baghdad and Fallujah. Fine Britain! we do not care whatever your terrorist state moans over terrorism anywhere. off
    The key word there is deliberately, there is a difference between collateral damage from accidental bombing and intended civilian killings by detonating yourself in a mosque.

    But I digress, your an angry Pakistani male who is roughly the Islamic equivalent of Rush Limbaugh, I don't expect you to understand basic things such as logic or objectivity.
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  5. #65
    Poet's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: David Cameron Vs. Pakistan

    Am I going to post in this useless thread anymore? No

    What would be the last thing I would say in this thread? We are not Cambodia, Iraq or Afghanistan so off allies' we do not care what ever you think or propagate about our supposed support of terrorism. Your sates are terrorist as you have invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians (some "intelligent" people say this is not intentional), and you are supporting terrorism, and separation in Iran, Pakistan and China, so off again. We do not care, if you would invade us, Israel and India would feel penetration of our nuclear missiles in their respective asses. So come on! bloody cowards! we know you can only bark and bite weak nations.
    "I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion far from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today." 'The Genuine Islam,' Vol. 1, No. 8, 1936.Sir George Bernard Shaw

  6. #66
    Babur's Avatar ز آفتاب درخشان ستاره می
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    Default Re: David Cameron Vs. Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralle18 View Post
    Yes because Pakistan isn't Western and thus not a brutal crusader terrorist state.
    yeah Pakistan is a bastion of pious Musulman in South Asia stuck between the idolatrous Hindus of India and the crusading army of NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by Poet View Post
    Am I going to post in this useless thread anymore? No

    What would be the last thing I would say in this thread? We are not Cambodia, Iraq or Afghanistan so off allies' we do not care what ever you think or propagate about our supposed support of terrorism. Your sates are terrorist as you have invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians (some "intelligent" people say this is not intentional), and you are supporting terrorism, and separation in Iran, Pakistan and China, so off again. We do not care, if you would invade us, Israel and India would feel penetration of our nuclear missiles in their respective asses. So come on! bloody cowards! we know you can only bark and bite weak nations.

    so the Taliban and Lakshar-e-Taiba are freedom fighters? Pakistan's missiles can't reach North America or Europe, the same is the case with India's nuclear arsenal.
    Last edited by Babur; August 04, 2010 at 02:02 PM.
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  7. #67

    Default Re: David Cameron Vs. Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Babur View Post
    this groups aim was to cause chaos in India's financial capital.There were telephone conversations intercepted between the terrorists and their handlers in Pakistan, you seem to be implying that it was an inside job
    No I'm implying that it wasn't a Pakistani offensive carried out by a proxy terrorist force doing the bidding of Islamabad and the Pakistani people. It was the act of terrorists from a militant group unhappy with the situation in Kashmir, Pakistan, and India spawned in post-war Afghanistan (as many such militant groups were) and whose "handlers" were merely other members of their militant group.


    but there is some truth in what they're saying, Pakistan has a history of sponsoring terrorism in Kashmir since 1989 and in Afghanistan since 1994 (when the Taliban were formed with the ISI help in Qandahar).I suggest you read Ahmed Rashid's book on the Taliban
    They want to see this as evidence that the nation of Pakistan sponsors terrorism in India, and is responsible for the Taliban in Afghanistan but they really have nothing to go on other than the cooperation of some people living within Pakistan (a large and diverse country) some of who are affiliated with the government.

    This would be like me condemning all of India as a racist state bent on murdering and disenfranchising its Muslim citizens because of the acts of Hindu extremists within India.

    Or saying that because many Indians might be hostile to Pakistan given their history it means they are bent on their destruction.


    what does it have to do with the number of Indian Muslims? (my family are among them), these militants cross the LOC from Pakistan.
    What it has to do with it is in the demographics of the two countries. Perhaps if there was as significant a population of Hindus living in Pakistan where extremist elements from India could find areas sympathetic enough to harbor militant groups, and use those populations as justification for their terrible actions you would see more cross border violence by rogue Indian militants, however because there is not they are mainly content to act within India itself. This, and the principle of wanting to avoid too much where you sleep, also explains a good deal of why incidents of Hindu on Muslim violence while not non-existent within India do not reach quite the levels of organized Pakistani militant activity in India such as the Mumbai attacks or receive attention that might call the Indian government supporters of terrorism.

    Combine this with the fact that you have all these fighters trained in insurgent tactics in Afghanistan (both during the current conflict, and that against the Soviets) explains today's Pakistani militant activity against India much more than the claim that it is the result of a concerted effort by the Pakistani government and people as a whole.

    That there is a conflict between your two countries is undeniable I think, am I right? I'd say it is perpetuated by both sides (you may not, I don't know). But that Pakistan is the sponsor and the cause of terrorism in India, or Afghanistan or elsewhere is certainly still debatable and I say quite a reach.

  8. #68
    Their Law's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: David Cameron Vs. Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Poet View Post
    Am I going to post in this useless thread anymore? No
    It wasn't a useless thread when you were using it as your personal soap box, but now that people have called you out on it.

    What would be the last thing I would say in this thread?
    I find this hard to believe

    We are not Cambodia, Iraq or Afghanistan so off allies' we do not care what ever you think or propagate about our supposed support of terrorism.
    No your Pakistan, a country that has almost zero friends in the region and is bordered by a state which is significantly stronger than itself, furthermore a state which has the casus belli to invade Pakistan at a moments notice thanks to your own nations foreign policy.

    If it wasn't for the Afghanistan conflict Pakistan would be useless to Europe and the USA, India fits all the same criteria as Pakistan and is significantly more democratic and stable.

    Pakistan needs it western allies. It's one of the few things keeping it from imploding into civil war.

    Your sates are terrorist as you have invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians (some "intelligent" people say this is not intentional),
    Pointless demagoguery on your side there. You clearly have no understanding of either of the two conflicts and the motivations behind it. Instead you just see the 'West' and jump in with the same old tired Pan-Islamist routine that makes you more and more of a joke.

    and you are supporting terrorism,
    No i'm not, you are the one advocating terrorist groups not me.

    and separation in Iran, Pakistan and China, so off again.
    Iran is a theocratic regime which is despised by the majority of it's citizens, when it collapses it won't be because of western forces it will be through it's own population.

    Pakistan is a quasi theocratic republic with severe internal issues and a high proportion of radicalism in it's tribal zones.

    We do not care, if you would invade us, Israel and India would feel penetration of our nuclear missiles in their respective asses.
    Right threatening nuclear holocaust, always the correct way to go. You've just threatened the deaths of million upon millions of people to stroke your ego (which you incorrectly assume to be the same as your countries ego)

    So come on! bloody cowards! we know you can only bark and bite weak nations.
    Threatening nuclear war does not make you strong, it makes you psychotic. Pakistan vs the West would equate to a very very dead Pakistan. Especially if it decided to go nuclear on India and Israel.
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  9. #69
    Babur's Avatar ز آفتاب درخشان ستاره می
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    Default Re: David Cameron Vs. Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by tarvu View Post
    No I'm implying that it wasn't a Pakistani offensive carried out by a proxy terrorist force doing the bidding of Islamabad and the Pakistani people. It was the act of terrorists from a militant group unhappy with the situation in Kashmir, Pakistan, and India spawned in post-war Afghanistan (as many such militant groups were) and whose "handlers" were merely other members of their militant group.
    It was carried out by Lashkar-e-Taiba with support from elements of the ISI.Kasab said so himself.

    http://www.channel4.com/news/article...gunmen/3237557

    this link has video footage of an interview with Kasab, the last surviving militant of the Mumbai attackers.He said that LeT were behind the attacks,while you haven't provided any evidence whatsoever.

    They want to see this as evidence that the nation of Pakistan sponsors terrorism in India, and is responsible for the Taliban in Afghanistan but they really have nothing to go on other than the cooperation of some people living within Pakistan (a large and diverse country) some of who are affiliated with the government.
    Pakistan is responsible for the Taliban in Afghanistan though as described by Ahmed Rashid a journalist based in Lahore,Pakistan who has travelled extensively to Afghanistan and is considered by many to be the best expert on the current war in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

    This would be like me condemning all of India as a racist state bent on murdering and disenfranchising its Muslim citizens because of the acts of Hindu extremists within India.
    yeah and members of my family were persecuted in those riots

    Or saying that because many Indians might be hostile to Pakistan given their history it means they are bent on their destruction.
    the destruction of Pakistan would have severe repercussions throughout South Asia so that is a foolish thing to wish for.




    What it has to do with it is in the demographics of the two countries. Perhaps if there was as significant a population of Hindus living in Pakistan where extremist elements from India could find areas sympathetic enough to harbor militant groups, and use those populations as justification for their terrible actions you would see more cross border violence by rogue Indian militants, however because there is not they are mainly content to act within India itself. This, and the principle of wanting to avoid too much where you sleep, also explains a good deal of why incidents of Hindu on Muslim violence while not non-existent within India do not reach quite the levels of organized Pakistani militant activity in India such as the Mumbai attacks or receive attention that might call the Indian government supporters of terrorism.
    I don't think that Indian Muslims support these militant groups

    Combine this with the fact that you have all these fighters trained in insurgent tactics in Afghanistan (both during the current conflict, and that against the Soviets) explains today's Pakistani militant activity against India much more than the claim that it is the result of a concerted effort by the Pakistani government and people as a whole.
    Pakistan wants to secure its interests in the region

    That there is a conflict between your two countries is undeniable I think, am I right? I'd say it is perpetuated by both sides (you may not, I don't know). But that Pakistan is the sponsor and the cause of terrorism in India, or Afghanistan or elsewhere is certainly still debatable and I say quite a reach.
    how is it debatable that Pakistan sponsors terrorism in India and Afghanistan?, Pakistan helped to found the Taliban in Qandahar in 1994
    Last edited by Babur; August 04, 2010 at 02:20 PM.
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  10. #70
    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default Re: David Cameron Vs. Pakistan

    Meh, who cares. This was to be expected.
    Quote Originally Posted by Their Law View Post
    The key word there is deliberately, there is a difference between collateral damage from accidental bombing and intended civilian killings by detonating yourself in a mosque.

    But I digress, your an angry Pakistani male who is roughly the Islamic equivalent of Rush Limbaugh, I don't expect you to understand basic things such as logic or objectivity.
    Come on now, that's a bit unfair.

    To Limbaugh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Poet
    Am I going to post in this useless thread anymore? No

    What would be the last thing I would say in this thread? We are not Cambodia, Iraq or Afghanistan so off allies'
    Nice way to thank the guys who are dumping boatloads of cash into Pakistan, I'm sure. I hope to God you belong to a very, very tiny minority in Pakistan.
    Your sates are terrorist as you have invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians (some "intelligent" people say this is not intentional), and you are supporting terrorism, and separation in Iran, Pakistan and China, so off again.
    Clearly you have no ing idea what terrorism actually is.
    ter·ror·ism

     /ˈtɛrəˌrɪzəm/ Show Spelled[ter-uh-riz-uhm] Show IPA
    –noun 1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.

    2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.

    3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.


    Now tell me, just where have we been randomly killing civilians purely to scare the living out of the locals? And haven't the Taliban been doing just that, btw?
    We do not care, if you would invade us, Israel and India would feel penetration of our nuclear missiles in their respective asses. So come on! bloody cowards! we know you can only bark and bite weak nations.
    lololol

    You are aware that by asking Pakistan to unleash its nuclear arsenal, you are damning your country to retaliatory strikes (which will glass it) and your countrymen to die excruciatingly painful deaths I wouldn't wish upon Hitler, yes?

    Thank God you're not in the Pakistani government...or any government, period.
    Last edited by Barry Goldwater; August 04, 2010 at 02:20 PM.

  11. #71
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    Default Re: David Cameron Vs. Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Babur View Post
    yeah Pakistan is a bastion of pious Musulman in South Asia stuck between the idolatrous Hindus of India and the crusading army of NATO
    Indeed that is what Pakistan is


    Quote Originally Posted by Poet View Post
    Your sates are terrorist as you have invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians (some "intelligent" people say this is not intentional), and you are supporting terrorism, and separation in Iran, Pakistan and China, so off again.
    No the west is not terrorist. I suggest you read the definition Barry Goldwater posted. Other than that calling the West terrorists states is just bs. Again, neither the Coalition in Iraq or ISAF in Afghanistan has been deliberately targeting civilians to scare them into submission. On the contrary, your beloved "freedom fighters" do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Babur View Post
    We do not care, if you would invade us, Israel and India would feel penetration of our nuclear missiles in their respective asses. So come on! bloody cowards! we know you can only bark and bite weak nations.
    Lol what a load of nationalist .
    Last edited by Tiberios; August 04, 2010 at 02:25 PM.

  12. #72
    Babur's Avatar ز آفتاب درخشان ستاره می
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    Default Re: David Cameron Vs. Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralle18 View Post
    Indeed, Pakistan is the bastion of the pious
    yes and it is under siege
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  13. #73
    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default Re: David Cameron Vs. Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralle18 View Post
    Lol what a load of nationalist .
    I'd like to think that being a nationalist requires you to love your nation. Which means not...
    Quote Originally Posted by Me
    damning your country to retaliatory strikes (which will glass it) and your countrymen to die excruciatingly painful deaths I wouldn't wish upon Hitler
    Holy balls, Poet might not even really qualify as a Pakistani nationalist.

  14. #74
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    Default Re: David Cameron Vs. Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Babur View Post
    yes and it is under siege
    Quick Babur, you must hurry to the defence of your Musulman brothers!


    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Goldwater View Post
    I'd like to think that being a nationalist requires you to love your nation. Which means not...
    Well you've got a good point

  15. #75
    Babur's Avatar ز آفتاب درخشان ستاره می
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    Default Re: David Cameron Vs. Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Goldwater View Post
    I'd like to think that being a nationalist requires you to love your nation. Which means not...

    Holy balls, Poet might not even really qualify as a Pakistani nationalist.
    well he is an Islamist

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralle18 View Post
    Quick Babur, you must hurry to the defence of your Musulman brothers!
    later


    Well you've got a good point
    yeah he does, I want to see Poet's reply
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  16. #76
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    Default Re: David Cameron Vs. Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Babur View Post
    yeah he does, I want to see Poet's reply
    Indeed. I am looking forward to that too. It'll be interesting.

  17. #77

    Default Re: David Cameron Vs. Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Babur View Post
    It was carried out by Lashkar-e-Taiba with support from elements of the ISI.Kasab said so himself.

    http://www.channel4.com/news/article...gunmen/3237557

    this link has video footage of an interview with Kasab, the last surviving militant of the Mumbai attackers.He said that LeT were behind the attacks,while you haven't provided any evidence whatsoever.

    Pakistan is responsible for the Taliban in Afghanistan though as described by Ahmed Rashid a journalist based in Lahore,Pakistan who has travelled extensively to Afghanistan and is considered by many to be the best expert on the current war in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

    yeah and members of my family were persecuted in those riots

    the destruction of Pakistan would have severe repercussions throughout South Asia so that is a foolish thing to wish for.




    I don't think that Indian Muslims support these militant groups

    Pakistan wants to secure its interests in the region

    how is it debatable that Pakistan sponsors terrorism in India and Afghanistan?, Pakistan helped to found the Taliban in Qandahar in 1994
    The Muslims in India probably don't support terrorism in their own state, the majority of Muslims in Pakistan do not support terrorism in their state either.

    The issue is much more complicated than simply Pakistan being the birthplace of Islamic extremism and terrorism. The Taliban supported terrorism, Ghadafi at one time supported terrorism, these were state sponsors of terrorism. Pakistan is a democratic government, though the government, the army, and the ISI may all have sympathizers within them (and a few active militants very likely) they are not the same thing. The Pakistani government and people have more at stake in the fight against terrorism within their border than even you in India do.

  18. #78
    Babur's Avatar ز آفتاب درخشان ستاره می
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    Default Re: David Cameron Vs. Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by tarvu View Post
    The Muslims in India probably don't support terrorism in their own state, the majority of Muslims in Pakistan do not support terrorism in their state either.
    yes as this poll shows:

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/126602/Ta...-Pakistan.aspx

    The issue is much more complicated than simply Pakistan being the birthplace of Islamic extremism and terrorism. The Taliban supported terrorism, Ghadafi at one time supported terrorism, these were state sponsors of terrorism. Pakistan is a democratic government, though the government, the army, and the ISI may all have sympathizers within them (and a few active militants very likely) they are not the same thing. The Pakistani government and people have more at stake in the fight against terrorism within their border than even you in India do.
    it isn't the birthplace of Islamic extremism, Sayyid Qutub in Egypt created Islamic extremism as we know it today.Zardari is a corrupt leader for one thing, that is what is surprising is that despite having much at stake they will still continue to support terrorists outside their borders
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  19. #79
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: David Cameron Vs. Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Babur View Post
    it isn't the birthplace of Islamic extremism, Sayyid Qutub in Egypt created Islamic extremism as we know it today.
    not true




  20. #80

    Default Re: David Cameron Vs. Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian View Post
    not true
    Could you elaborate? I want to see where this is going.
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