Men of Angmar! ARISE!!!

[Ceasar Gubius]

Well, here I am, with another detailed, overthought idea for TATW . This last patch was fantastic, for all of you who havn't downloaded it yet, it is seriously worth your time! Eriador has changed into my favorite faction ...

But I'm not here to go on a sermon about the fantastic work of the TATW team. I'm here to suggest, what I would claim is a fairly well researched and logical, idea for a mod. This Mod focuses on reforming the Orcs of Gundabad faction. The faction is great, and real challenge. But it seems to me that it was mainly Mordor and OotMM thrown into a blender. A fine faction, no doubt, but not one I would honestly devote much time to playing besides custom battle (I mean no offense by this). So I continue with my idea......

The "Witch King of Angmar" is one of the Nine Kings of MEN. Hence, why he was given a ring for being one of the nine. J.R.R Tolkien was never specific of who the subjects of Angmar were. In the books, only brief referance is given to some of the inhabitants. So my question is, why would he be considered a "King of Men" if there were no MEN and only Orcs? Would the Elves have exterminated the humans after they defeated the Witch King at his fortress of Carn Dum? I don't think that's in keeping with J.R.R Tolkien's Elves... So the logical conclusion would be, it would not be "Lore-Rape" to assume that there was quite a substantial population of men (Evil as they may be) in Agmar (Probably Scattered).

So, to my point ! My suggestion, would be to reform the current faction into a faction of
Barbaric, Evil (Not Mislead like the Dunlanders), yet strong MEN! Remember, these men brought the once powerful Dunedain, to their knees! So what is my inspiration for this faction?!?! I shall show you .......

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

VIKINGS!!!

Yes, I just suggested Vikings, and here's why... What culture of humans could you seriously see pillaging, burning, plundering, and raping the peacfull People/Hobbits of the Shire ? And besides, all the current Evil Men are "Eastern", we need some Western stock in there (And I don't mean the missunderstood Dunlanders ). Also, who else in European history, were some of the most supersticious and last to turn away from the Old Gods.... THE VIKINGS!!!

These lads would be ruthless, and have no problem living amongst Orcs and Trolls. That's why this would fit together with a faction. You could still keep many Orc units! here's a few ideas for a unit roster .

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

TIER 1
Angmarian Peasants: Lowest in the society of Angmarians (spears/round shield).
Hunters of the North: Hard men, accustomed to survival in the Northern Mountains (Bows/handaxe)
Raiders of Angmar: The middle class, they earn their living by taking what they want! (Handaxe/Shield, yet lightly Armored)
TIER 2
Northern Warriors: Hardier folks of the Mountains, whose sole occupation is forcing peacful folk into submission (Assortment of Axes, Swords, ect/Shield/ thrown javellins and heavy fur armor)
Angmarian Calvary: Horses are rare in the Northern Lands, so only the most powerfull yet bright can handle them (Agmarian Warriors on Horseback. Replace javellins with Lance)
Village Strongmen: These are the lads who hold the people in line! Built naturally tough and they know it! For their loyalty to their chiefs, they can have whatever they want, food, wine, women, you name it! (Large brutes with two handed axes, maces, clubs)
TIER 3
Warrior Priests of Melkor: These are the real voices of Sauron in the North! How they know his will is a mystory but they know it! Their presence encourages others on the battlefield. (Robed Freaks with Chant ability and bladed staffs)
Gaurdians of Carn Dum: These are the special Berserkers of the Witch King, or so they claim their lineage is. Going into battle pratically naked, they hew their foes down with a fury that even the dunedain quake at (Berserkers with almost no Armor, but huge in size and carrying Axes of immense proportion).
War-Chiefs Bodygaurd: These are the kinsmen of the Cheiftains. They are strong and accompany him into battle. Legend says that if he is slain, they will fight over his body until victorious, or dead! (Warriors with Metal Round Shields/Axes and Swords/ Heavy Chainmail)...

*This faction would still maintain many Orc, Rhudar, and Snow Troll units.

What do you think so far ? BTW, the faction would also be renamed to something like "Warlords of Angmar" and the family tree would now be Human. Eventhough the religion is still "Followers of Melkor"...

Finally, when I say "Vikings", I don't mean believable Vikings! I mean the stereotypical, muscled, barbaric, helmets with horns, huge bearded, type of vikings! The type that would make any history-buff vomit !!! Here are some pics

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

That's pretty much it ! I have more ideas regarding the faction, but I would love feedback first, thanks ....

[Sereglin]

It is spelled "Angmar", with an "N".

[jedi7000nathan]

Doh i was going to say that

[Ceasar Gubius]

It is spelled "Angmar", with an "N".

Doh i was going to say that

THANK YOU for correcting my spelling !!!

But BESIDES the spelling, what do you think?

[VonSchlepp]

I'm all for it. Make em gothic like and that'll be cool. Good ideas at Call of Warhammer.

[Louis Lux]

That's not such a bad idea, I understand that you are trying to work a MERP, Frank Frazetta angle.(look it up)
My advice...just do it


Seriously, it shouldn't be overly complicated, you got some publicly available units in the War of the Norsemen forums http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=301465. You could ask the First O'Neil to let you use some of his Valhalla units from Thera. And see if Absinthia has some spare stuff he can give you, who knows he might even help you. If it doesn't work out at least you'll have something to steer you away from your incessant thread starting .

[Saladin]

That's not such a bad idea, I understand that you are trying to work a MERP, Frank Frazetta angle.(look it up)
My advice...just do it


Seriously, it shouldn't be overly complicated, you got some publicly available units in the War of the Norsemen forums http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=301465. You could ask the First O'Neil to let you use some of his Valhalla units from Thera. And see if Absinthia has some spare stuff he can give you, who knows he might even help you. If it doesn't work out at least you'll have something to steer you away from your incessant thread starting .

plus it would be good experience. also check out some of the rusichi models, some of that can be worked into some norse stuff. call of warhammer has some cool helmets and bare chested barbarian models in their Ragnar's Wolves unit, perhaps you could pm Islendil.
overall,
a really good idea

[The Holy Pilgrim]

THANK YOU for correcting my spelling !!!

But BESIDES the spelling, what do you think?

plus it would be good experience. also check out some of the rusichi models, some of that can be worked into some norse stuff. call of warhammer has some cool helmets and bare chested barbarian models in their Ragnar's Wolves unit, perhaps you could pm Islendil.
overall,
a really good idea

I agree. The marauders in Call of Warhammer are perfect for making an Angmar faction. Just be sure to ask the CoW team for permission first. They are pretty nice when it comes to using their stuff

[Jaketh]

looks good

[The Holy Pilgrim]

I can help you with coding if you'd like.

[Wesserd]

Looks great, succes with this mod!

[freitach]

Sounds great, but how about implementing reemergence for Angmar?
Just like for Arnor, you got to get some regions, and rebuild something in the capital, afterwards you have to get real good standings with Mordor, so they gift you their Nazgul to be king again.

So orcs, and some low lvl men in the beginning, after the reemergence high tier men (gather again, after the power of angmar has risen again).
Dunno how much work this is, but it would give a special feeling for this region, two old powers struggle to recover and rise again

[Ceasar Gubius]

Wow! So many replies, I wasn't expecting this kind or response ! Thank you all!

That's not such a bad idea, I understand that you are trying to work a MERP, Frank Frazetta angle.(look it up)
My advice...just do it


Seriously, it shouldn't be overly complicated, you got some publicly available units in the War of the Norsemen forums http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=301465. You could ask the First O'Neil to let you use some of his Valhalla units from Thera. And see if Absinthia has some spare stuff he can give you, who knows he might even help you. If it doesn't work out at least you'll have something to steer you away from your incessant thread starting .

plus it would be good experience. also check out some of the rusichi models, some of that can be worked into some norse stuff. call of warhammer has some cool helmets and bare chested barbarian models in their Ragnar's Wolves unit, perhaps you could pm Islendil.
overall,
a really good idea

Thank you both for you support! I looked up the Warhammer assets, and I agree they would be perfect, and I even got more ideas by just looking at them !

AND I would love to take this idea and run with it! In fact I will try and get something started. But in reallity I don't have the time in my schedule to do anything more than Concepts, Organization, and Beta-Testing. Primary reason being is I enlisted in the Army ! Most of the time I'd be spending learning a new skill, I'm gonna be spending prepping for Boot-camp ... So I'll try something, but "I don't think I can make the journey alone"

But I guess my new occupation will keep me from "incessant thread starting " hahaha!

I can help you with coding if you'd like.

Absalutely! Your help would be necessary for this project's success !

Sounds great, but how about implementing reemergence for Angmar?
Just like for Arnor, you got to get some regions, and rebuild something in the capital, afterwards you have to get real good standings with Mordor, so they gift you their Nazgul to be king again.

So orcs, and some low lvl men in the beginning, after the reemergence high tier men (gather again, after the power of angmar has risen again).
Dunno how much work this is, but it would give a special feeling for this region, two old powers struggle to recover and rise again

I thought of something like that (Because it is a very good idea ), but you can only have one Kalmar Union script. And that one is being used by Eriador. I think there may be a way to implement a reemergance eventually, but it would not be a priority. The priority would be to reform the unit rostor, faction interface and faction....

[The Holy Pilgrim]

Absalutely! Your help would be necessary for this project's success !

So, how would you like this faction? Mainly barbaric men with a few orcs, an even amount of each, or more orcs than there are men?

[HolyDevil]

Great idea, wish you best of luck with this one..

Anyway, wil the witch king make an appeareance for this faction?

Like, if any of you played BFME2, rise of the witch king, in the War of the ring mode, you had 2 witch kings, 1 for mordor and 1 for angmar... i know its kinnda dumb, but you should make a poll and see if people would like a version of the witch king for angmar, maybe a different bodyguard and different clothing than the one for mordor

good luck !

[Smokey Bacon]

Witchking should be the leader if Angmar is reformed. There should be Orcs, Wights and men in the army.

And the witchking was a ring wraith before he founded Angmar...

[The Black Goldfish]

Vikings! Oh yeah, count me In, I have some scripting experience as well as beta-testing experience

I would suggest Orcs for lower tier/spam units, but make them smaller, sturdier, and with some more fur
Men of Lossoth (Ice-men)? anyone?
But viking-INSPIRED units is not that bad an idea for higher tier units. That does make Angmar look a little more terrifying, which I deem was their greatest strength, their ability to frighten the enemy.
and wights is quite possible too, maybe elite-unit? or as guardians of Carn-Dûm?

Oh, and keep the snow trolls too

The Black Goldfish at your service, just PM me

[Ceasar Gubius]

Great idea, wish you best of luck with this one..

Anyway, wil the witch king make an appeareance for this faction?

Like, if any of you played BFME2, rise of the witch king, in the War of the ring mode, you had 2 witch kings, 1 for mordor and 1 for angmar... i know its kinnda dumb, but you should make a poll and see if people would like a version of the witch king for angmar, maybe a different bodyguard and different clothing than the one for mordor

good luck !

Witchking should be the leader if Angmar is reformed. There should be Orcs, Wights and men in the army.

And the witchking was a ring wraith before he founded Angmar...

About the Witch King, I really like the idea, and I think this is something our team can agree on, and with a little help from a thing called a "Poll" , there should be no problem. THe only thing that would confuse me would be, who would lead Mordors forces then? The Witch King is currently the leader of that faction as well...

This may be a long shot, but I thought of maybe the idea of creating a Angmarian Dynasty that claims to be descendants of the Witch King. I mean, he was a man once, what's to say he didn't indulge in a few "Manly Actions" from time to time .....

So, how would you like this faction? Mainly barbaric men with a few orcs, an even amount of each, or more orcs than there are men?

I like the idea of a faction primarily made up of Barbaric Men, with a few universally recruited lesser Orcs (Snaga, etc). Then Their will be a few AOR Gundabad units... Capito???

Vikings! Oh yeah, count me In, I have some scripting experience as well as beta-testing experience

I would suggest Orcs for lower tier/spam units, but make them smaller, sturdier, and with some more fur
Men of Lossoth (Ice-men)? anyone?
But viking-INSPIRED units is not that bad an idea for higher tier units. That does make Angmar look a little more terrifying, which I deem was their greatest strength, their ability to frighten the enemy.
and wights is quite possible too, maybe elite-unit? or as guardians of Carn-Dûm?

Oh, and keep the snow trolls too

The Black Goldfish at your service, just PM me

Wonderfull! Looks like we have the beginnings of a team here! I'll send you a pm here soon !

As for your ideas, I really like the idea of Ice-Men of Lossoth . But then again, one of my major ideas was to incorperate Forodwaith with the Angmar faction. Make a Alliance of Evil Men of the North, with a few orcs and trolls .....

[freitach]

About the Witch King, I really like the idea, and I think this is something our team can agree on, and with a little help from a thing called a "Poll" , there should be no problem. THe only thing that would confuse me would be, who would lead Mordors forces then? The Witch King is currently the leader of that faction as well...

Mhm how about Sauron?
Bounded to his tower, so he can't move out there, till he gets his ring again ^^

[kmcwilli]

Mhm how about Sauron?
Bounded to his tower, so he can't move out there, till he gets his ring again ^^

That would be interesting. Kind of how the balrog is tied to Moria and Saruman to Isengard. Now a side mission for mordor could be to capture the ring and bring it back to Barad Dur and that would free Sauron to roam the map.

The way they keep saruman in Isengard is by giving him negative movement points right? Well what if you gave sauron -10 movement points initially and the ring +15 movement points and also make it a transferable item so that when given to sauron it would free him. Sorry if any of this is impossible, Im not a modder and I dont know much about the underlying mechanics of the game.

Or maybe he could only become recruitable once the ring was in the possesion of mordor??

Otherwise I love the viking concept, would make this a desirable faction for me to play as I hate playing with orc factions. I agree that it would be cool to see a progression like with arnor but doing anything to get rid of orcs is a good thing. I vote to keep the snow trolls and the ice men sound cool. Gotta have the witch king as a faction leader and some ideas of others would be
Morgomir- one of the nine nazgul and lieutenant of Carn Dum
Hwaldar descendants- Hwaldar was the leader of the hill men of Rhudaur in the early third age so maybe you could incorporate some chieftain of the Rhudaur.