Worst ideas of the mod

[Messremb]

Well....here's the topic for the grumbling Might be just a means to vent, but has to be done- who knows, might spark something useful. Under no circumstance we should forget to be grateful to the modders for they titanic work.

Infantry Bg- I know many factions don't have access to horses and sometimes they make sense, but overall I find them frustratingly useless, especially the archer ones. The general always lags behind due to the different armor settings impacting speed and animations for issuing orders and gets smacked in the head by the first charging enemy. Dale- headaches and tears; never-EVER play the Sylvans.
And most factions could conceivably have mounted bgs.

Skirmish Infantry (javelins) Because they have to be lightly armored and short ranged, they are utterly useless in open field: archers decimate them before they can get close and any cavalry can maul through the rest or keep them away from the army. They are useful defenders in sieges but that a bit too little.
They do seem to count a lot in the autoresolve calculations of the game so are useful in AI vs AI.

Hobbit Longbows How can hobbit archers have long range is a huge mystery. Snagas don't. Gameplay balance couldn't work without?

Mounted archers I might be the only one that couldn't figure out how to charge them before running out of ammo so I might be partial, but they lose hands-down in a one-on-one against comparable archers. Better targets...

Cavalry Stack Size 70? That might be useful for shock and awe morale tactics and gives some space to the player to fight a few battles before running out of cav but it seems to royally screw up the formation coherence in a fight and one straggler ruins the whole charge. 50 would do it just fine even against 250 unit stacks.

Momentarily I'm out of ideas but I'm sure to find new things to grumble about

[Narf]

I like most of this

[slowbro]

All the above are caused by your own inability use the right way

[Lordinquisitor]

All the above are caused by your own inability use the right way

This; Don`t meant it as an insult.

[Hermes Trismegistos]

Considering the points 1 and 5 I would say that cavalry already is a bit overpowered, especially some bodyguards, you can really achieve much more with them than with infantry, even with low numbers... also the infantry bodyguards add some variety and in most cases fit lore very well.

Point 2: Of course snagas or balchoth are not very strong, as they are the cheapest starting units of their factions. Still with their masses and additional throwing ability they can be really devastating IMO. Just let them hold ground and use them as normal infantry with additional range power, never use skirmishers for skirmishing

Point 3: Hobbits don't have longbows? Where did you see that? Did they have longbows before 2.0?

Point 4: Again I would say these are useful units, you can use them to shoot your enemy in the back from short distance and additionaly as light cavalry to chase them, down. Like you said though, keep them away from regular archers.

[MasterBigAb]

[Valaraukar]

I don't think it deserves a facepalm, even if Messremb is going a bit roughly with this thread...

I think he says that Hobbits shouldn't have such long range missiles but a range that is accurate to their size and strenght?? Otherwise I agree that Bodyguards should be mounted (especially the Good ones) because generals are stuck with the famous "I'm here but I won't touch my sword please just kill me" syndrom.

About the mounted archers, the snagas and the cavalry size I don't agree or disagree, I doesn't changes a lot of things I guess and if those units are here in the game, it's surely because they have to...

[slowbro]

really... Mongols master bowmen and probably the shortest warriors in history

[MasterBigAb]

I don't think it deserves a facepalm, even if Messremb is going a bit roughly with this thread...

I think he says that Hobbits shouldn't have such long range missiles but a range that is accurate to their size and strenght?? Otherwise I agree that Bodyguards should be mounted (especially the Good ones) because generals are stuck with the famous "I'm here but I won't touch my sword please just kill me" syndrom.

About the mounted archers, the snagas and the cavalry size I don't agree or disagree, I doesn't changes a lot of things I guess and if those units are here in the game, it's surely because they have to...

The facepalm isn't due to the points he doesn't like, that is something personall which i have nothign against...
The facepalm is for the poll - ne problem if he points out weaknesses of the mod in his opinion, better though he'D do in the suggestion thread, but to say ok earlier or later a poll is needed what we don't like most about the mod, and than give us 5 personal not likings to choose is just very...
Don't open a poll and tell your points and you can discuss who else doesn'T liek it and others will also mention their problems etc...

Agin the facepalm is not for the topic itself, it is for the most ridicoulous poll if seen for a long time

[slowbro]

The facepalm isn't due to the points he doesn't like, that is something personall which i have nothign against...
The facepalm is for the poll - ne problem if he points out weaknesses of the mod in his opinion, better though he'D do in the suggestion thread, but to say ok earlier or later a poll is needed what we don't like most about the mod, and than give us 5 personal not likings to choose is just very...
Don't open a poll and tell your points and you can discuss who else doesn'T liek it and others will also mention their problems etc...

Agin the facepalm is not for the topic itself, it is for the most ridicoulous poll if seen for a long time

this

[BlackViper]

So basically this is a negative suggestion thread? You can post all things you think suck(about this thread)?

[Vaz]

Silvan bodyguards are awesome, particularly in sieges with 2 lines of defence, where they have the range to take on units coming out of towers and ladders.

Worst by far are Dwarf bodyguards. They struggle to withstand T1 horse charges. If they recieved a ranged attack or benefits against horses then maybe.

Skirmishers are excellent shield them when you can and hide them behind frontline troops. It breaks the enemies formation and when combined with swordmasters, erebor axes clan guards and lossarnach axes turns an enemy charge into a defence.

Not actually used hobbit archers yet, so can't comment.

Horse Archers are insane. ASAP i build a stables for the silvans. That way the mission rewards Silvan Horse Archers. Even just 4 of them changes the outcome of battles. Send them out to the wings to hunt generals and foot archers then have them charge the rear of enemies in melee. They're so fast as well that you can always chase down fleeing enemies. Variags are good as well.

Worst idea IMHO is the Balrog.

[slowbro]

Worst idea IMHO is the Balrog.

yes indeed

[Seleukos_I.]

Silvan bodyguards are awesome, particularly in sieges with 2 lines of defence, where they have the range to take on units coming out of towers and ladders.

Worst by far are Dwarf bodyguards. They struggle to withstand T1 horse charges. If they recieved a ranged attack or benefits against horses then maybe.

Skirmishers are excellent shield them when you can and hide them behind frontline troops. It breaks the enemies formation and when combined with swordmasters, erebor axes clan guards and lossarnach axes turns an enemy charge into a defence.

I actually really like the Dwarven Bodyguard. If you let them get charged by cavalry I'd say it's your fault.
But in early game they are one of the best infantry units available. Especially in sieges.

On Skirmishers I agree. They are too strong actually in my opinion. In early game, there basically no unit that can withstand Balchoth Tribesmen.

[Messremb]

@slowbro- dude! having prob understanding what you read? longbows are 1.5 meters; mongols had recurve bows

@vaz: how can you make them charge before they exhaust their ammo? the tactic you describe works only against the dumb AI the TA has. If the enemy stops and has their archers shoot at your cav, they wither in seconds, trust me I've done it countless times.

Regarding the bgs and javelins, I already admitted they make sense and are useful but only sometimes. I was stressing the point of their severely reduced usefulness to a human player.

@MBA and who, pray tell, would take the time to sort the useful information from such a thread, then make a poll? In case you haven't noticed for one point of contention are ten replies and 5 spams
I was trying to get the ball rolling, not create the definitive works from the first shot. Look at the forest then complain about the trees

[Seleukos_I.]

@vaz: how can you make them charge before they exhaust their ammo? the tactic you describe works only against the dumb AI the TA has. If the enemy stops and has their archers shoot at your cav, they wither in seconds, trust me I've done it countless times.

Regarding the bgs and javelins, I already admitted they make sense and are useful but only sometimes. I was stressing the point of their severely reduced usefulness to a human player.

Press Alt so they attack with their secondary weapon.
I prefer to have more variety in the game, which is added by dismounted bodyguards. They also make a lot of sense.
And if you don't like javelins or if you can't deal with them, then don't use them.

[slowbro]

@slowbro- dude! having prob understanding what you read? longbows are 1.5 meters; mongols had recurve bows

@vaz: how can you make them charge before they exhaust their ammo? the tactic you describe works only against the dumb AI the TA has. If the enemy stops and has their archers shoot at your cav, they wither in seconds, trust me I've done it countless times.

Regarding the bgs and javelins, I already admitted they make sense and are useful but only sometimes. I was stressing the point of their severely reduced usefulness to a human player.

@MBA and who, pray tell, would take the time to sort the useful information from such a thread, then make a poll? In case you haven't noticed for one point of contention are ten replies and 5 spams
I was trying to get the ball rolling, not create the definitive works from the first shot. Look at the forest then complain about the trees

Long is a relative term

[slowbro]

@slowbro- dude! having prob understanding what you read? longbows are 1.5 meters; mongols had recurve bows

Yes i have difficulty in understanding where you got the idea of Hobbit longbows from they don't exist in the game

[Messremb]

how in the bloody hell would they otherwise have long range? all the archers in vanilla were short ranged except for those with the better tech of recurve and longbow
in TA those tech are universal and not worth making the distinction

[slowbro]

so all bows that have longer range are longbows now?