Austria holds 'Holocaust denier'

**Siblesz** · November 17, 2005, 04:30 PM

Austria holds 'Holocaust denier'

British revisionist historian David Irving is being held in Austria under laws against denying the Holocaust.
An interior ministry spokesman said police in the province of Styria acted on a warrant issued in 1989 to arrest him last Friday.

Mr Irving was on his way to give a lecture in the capital, Vienna.

In his books, Mr Irving has argued that the scale of the extermination of the Jews by the Nazis in World War II has been exaggerated.

He also claimed that Nazi leader Adolf Hitler knew nothing of the Holocaust.

He told a libel hearing in London in 2000 that there had been no gas chambers at the Auschwitz camp.

He lost the case and the judge branded him "an active Holocaust denier".

'Anti-Semitic'

A spokesman for the Austrian interior ministry, Rudolf Gollia, told the BBC that Mr Irving was first taken to the town of Graz, but was now in custody in Vienna.

Anti-Nazi groups in the UK congratulated the Austrian government.

The chairman of the Holocaust Educational Trust, Lord Greville Janner, said he hoped the move would "lead to a successful prosecution".

The head of the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust said denial was not a matter of opinion.

"Austrian law demands incisive action to protect its citizens from a repeat of the past," he added.

Mr Irving was previously arrested in Austria in 1984.

This time, the historian was stopped near the town of Hartberg while reportedly on his way to address a students' club in Vienna.

Mr Irving came into the spotlight in 2000 when he sued US academic Deborah Lipstadt for describing him as a "Holocaust denier" in her 1994 work Denying the Holocaust: The Growing Assault on Truth and Memory.

Giving his verdict, the British judge said Mr Irving was "an active Holocaust denier; that he is anti-Semitic and racist and that he associates with right-wing extremists who promote neo-Nazism".

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4446646.stm

What do you think? I for once think this is preposterous. I fully believe that there was a Holocaust, but the Holocaust not only symbolizes the murder of 6,000,000+ Jews, other ethnicities, seniors, handicaps, and homosexuals, but the death of freedom in Europe as well. This action is highly hypocritical and instead promotes further control and suppression of the rights of the people and encourages a repeat of WWII by using the famous pretense of: "kill liberty and restrict the rights that offend me" ploy. Worse even is the fact that these Holocaust groups adamantly wish for the "successful prosecution" of David Irving for having his own opinion. Whether that opinion is farther from the truth than Pluto is to the Earth is besides the point. It is his own opinion and he has a right as a person to have it. What's the world smoking?

**Farnan** · November 17, 2005, 04:37 PM

Even though I think beating the crap out of holocaust deniers should be legal and encouraged, I don't think they should be arrested for denying the holocaust.

**Justinian** · November 17, 2005, 04:43 PM

What idiocy is this?

Denying the holocaust is obviously the product of wishful thinking coupled with incredible blindness. But arresting someone for their opinion isn't very far from 1984.

Speaking of which, does anyone else regard his previous arrest in the year 1984 to be rather ironic?

**Tom Paine** · November 17, 2005, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by Justinian

What idiocy is this?

Denying the holocaust is obviously the product of wishful thinking coupled with incredible blindness. But arresting someone for their opinion isn't very far from 1984.

Speaking of which, does anyone else regard his previous arrest in the year 1984 to be rather ironic?

And then there was him suing someone else as a perjurer and slanderer, for accusing him of Holocaust denial (his defence, incidentaly, was a denial of the Holocaust)

**danzig** · November 17, 2005, 05:14 PM

Im uncomfortable with someone arresting someone and tossing them in jail for something they say/believe even if its something as offensive as this. Wipetaps? Monitoring communications? Sorry seems er excessive, people who believe Irving's crap are going to continue to believe and arresting him and possibly tossing him in prison is just going to reenforce that opinion...see he is telling the truth and try and silence him! It doesnt help the cause of freedom of speech nor does it do anything to address the ignorance of people like this and his followers. And yes Im well aware alot of Europeans dont buy into the idea of freedom of speech but freedom of expression but as always where is the line drawn. On side note a member of Hungarian Communist party was arrested and fined for wearing a red star, a banned symbol since fall of communism...equally stupid move imo.

**BassV2** · November 20, 2005, 02:35 AM

Originally Posted by Justinian

What idiocy is this?

Denying the holocaust is obviously the product of wishful thinking coupled with incredible blindness. But arresting someone for their opinion isn't very far from 1984.

Speaking of which, does anyone else regard his previous arrest in the year 1984 to be rather ironic?

blind ? American propoganada is up to your head.
All we've been reading about the holocaust is all american and jewish productions.

**ajimenez3** · November 17, 2005, 04:45 PM

Restricting Free speech is not the best way to counter these people. They should be confronted and debated on their beliefs and let their stance show the emptiness of their veiws.

These anti-Free speech laws are just the same tactics that the Nazi Party used to silence their opponets. It makes no sense at all to do this.

Semper Fi
Arturo

**Libertine** · November 17, 2005, 05:14 PM

im going to get flak for this but *deep breath*

i think its a good thing he is locked away, the holocaust did blatently happen....imagine if someone you knew was killed in the holocaust then this stupid (for want of a better word) bastard comes and says it didnt happen...i for one would be prertty ****** off. imho Anti Holocaust Denial Laws should be mandatory in every country, the world over.

I belive strongly in free speach, but there are limits to it, and for me, this is the limit.

**JP226** · November 17, 2005, 04:55 PM

This is a result of the idiotic laws that so many europeans are comfortabel with, the lack of free speech. Whtehter you are right or wrong, especially wrong in this case, you desrves or better yet have a RIGHT to freedom of speech. Many europeans disagree with this. It's disgusting.

**Custor** · November 17, 2005, 05:03 PM

As you post on this forum you agree to have your free speach restricted under the 'Member conduct'.
http://www.ogresnet.com/html/tos.php
Not that hard to grasp the give and take required for some societies to run more smoothly.

As for Irving, I don't know how far he goes.

**Zuwxiv** · November 17, 2005, 05:10 PM

For someone who grew up in America, this is very disturbing, but it isn't the same country. I definately believe that he should be allowed to say whatever he wants (provided it isn't destructive, ie "Let's go kill the Jews!").

I don't like the "public opinion" sort of laws.. At least not arrested. Maybe fined for causing some form of disturbance, which is probably true.

It comes down to the principle: Can you legally punish someone for saying something stupid? I'm sure that in many cases, the answer should be yes. But philosophically, it is different. "Stupid" is relative; in ten years people will laugh at us for thinking our most powerful computers were pretty good. People would have called you stupid if you told them the world was round in Columbus' time. (I know it isn't technically true, as most knew the world was round, but you get the idea; people have been massively wrong.) Or that the sun is the center of the solar system.

Although I hate it when stupid people open their mouths...

**ErikinWest** · November 17, 2005, 05:14 PM

Welcome to the new model Europe. I love Europe for its intellectual hub, and historical ambiance. By arresting this man they start down the road that the Nazi's did. I support freedom of speech, many don't.

Erik

**Farnan** · November 17, 2005, 05:16 PM

Wow, us right-wingers who want to bring a dictatorship over the world, at least according to some Libs here, are for free speech.

**danzig** · November 17, 2005, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by Farnan

Wow, us right-wingers who want to bring a dictatorship over the world, at least according to some Libs here, are for free speech.

All part of our evil plan! Let everyone talk about what they will while we secretly seize control...they will never know what hit them! Er...guess I said too much....now back to the cave to continue my lessons of the dark side of the force from Darth Cheney.

**ErikinWest** · November 17, 2005, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by Farnan

Wow, us right-wingers who want to bring a dictatorship over the world, at least according to some Libs here, are for free speech.

Very few true right wingers still exist. The republicans want to torture people, institute a police state, and impose hate laws limiting freedom of speech.

Erik

**Farnan** · November 17, 2005, 05:20 PM

Danzig, Danzig now the CIA has to send you to a secret torture facility...

**danzig** · November 17, 2005, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by Farnan

Danzig, Danzig now the CIA has to send you to a secret torture facility...

Pfft my basement is being used by the CIA for a torture facility Im sure they will give me a pass and if they dont Ill just sacrifice some liberal babies to Lord Rove and all will be forgiven.

Very few true right wingers still exist. The republicans want to torture people, institute a police state, and impose hate laws limiting freedom of speech.

Er yeah ok! Talk about making far reaching, baseless generalizations about an *entire* political party. Its ok I have space for you in my basement, cell #8 is quite 'comfortable' I assure you.

**Farnan** · November 17, 2005, 05:26 PM

All hail Lord Rove and Darth Cheney,
We're you get your sacrificial babies? I used to get them from Virginia, but its running dry on Liberals.

All this has a point in illustrating how us on the right are being accused of being evil freedom removers, but really liberal Europe takes away freedom of speech.

**Custor** · November 17, 2005, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by Farnan

All hail Lord Rove and Darth Cheney,
We're you get your sacrificial babies? I used to get them from Virginia, but its running dry on Liberals.

All this has a point in illustrating how us on the right are being accused of being evil freedom removers, but really liberal Europe takes away freedom of speech.

Farnan, I'm guessing that you're not from Austria? Austria is a country in the continent of Europe. Just thought yuo better know that before you get too carried away m8.

You think that Austria are a 'Liberal' country?

**Farnan** · November 17, 2005, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by Custor

Farnan, I'm guessing that you're not from Austria? Austria is a country in the continent of Europe. Just thought yuo better know that before you get too carried away m8.

You think that Austria are a 'Liberal' country?

Thanks for not assuming I'm an idiot..oh wait, you just did. I know where Austria is.

Austria is on Europe, Europe in the whole is liberal.

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