National Identity

[eurolord]

Hi all,

Ive been reading a lot on these forum about people from the ethnic minorities being of a certain european nationality simply because they were born in that country or came from a colony that was once a part of that country.

My 3 children were all born in the former West Germany - does that make them German? Neither my children or myself feel that if does.

To be classed (in this case) as a German, surely you would need the cultural background and language of a native German. You would also need to feel like you are a part of the country. Even though they spent all their childhood in Germany, they definately feel they are English.

It really annoys me when I read on these forums about the poor French muslims or the downtrodden muslims who currently reside in Britain, being called British or French. They are about as British or French as I am a German (and I lived there 20 years).

How can they claim to be French, Dutch or British when many of them do not even attempt to learn the language or culture of the country they are living in. Many also make no attempt at all to mix with the native population. Even 2nd or 3rd generation muslims make no attempt to integrate into our societies.

Merely carrying a passport which states you are French does not make you French. When I hear the term "British Muslim" being used to describe a terrorist who resides in the UK it angers me. If these scum are British, then they are traitors to their country and should be detained, imprisoned and then deported back to a muslim country.

In summary, there is more to being British than merely being born in the country. Sadly, most muslims have made no attempt to remedy the situation by learning our culture. Personally, I see no reason at all why my English" culture should be changed so that they become happy muslims.

Is it surprising that the native populations of Europe do not class these people as European? It is their own fault.

Eurolord

[Last Roman]

while i kind of agree there, there are some counterpoints here to. How has European society helped them intergrate? These Muslims come to Europe and are expected to do everything themselves or at least thats the way it seems. If you ask me, both are at fault. (and before anyone points this out, America is not much better with Hispanics, i know)

[wilpuri]

Agreed with just about everything. Calling the riots in France simply riots by French youth is misleading, when it was cleary a phenomena within the young Muslims of France.

[S.P.Q.R.]

National Identity is all about the Ideals that you embrace from a certein culture created in a certein country or people bounded into its bounderies.

I meat people form other countries that are more "Italian" then other "real" Italians...of course they might not been born there or their parents, but certenly they are fully integrated, (but yes they are not muslims!).

[Kanaric]

The riots are more of a cause of the country failing to assimilate immigrants.

The causes of such a problem is starting to take root in the US with everything being overly PC. Their are many family who dont feel they need to and refuse to learn english. The government caters to these people and as a result they dont feel "American" or whatever nationality. They also go out of their way to make these people feel as if they "belong" by making sure they aren't "discriminated" against by having to learn english.

Language is just one part of the problem. The fact that these people are also poor and therefore live in neighborhoods of ONLY their kind of ethnicity is another problem, that actually does lead to discrimination among other things.

If you look at where I live for example, southwest Chicago suburbs, nobody has problems with the muslims. They live in a upper-middle-class neighborhood to the north not far away and are in our same high school district. I actually have had a few middle eastern friends, not all were muslims though some were, and they generally had no problems besides a couple of weeks after 9/11. They all speak english, they are not living in "ghettos", and they DEFINATELY dont riot, lol. Around here the muslims seem to assimilate well. I think its possibly the fact that the French muslims were poor that may be part of the cause as well, most of the muslims around here seem very well off.

Also IDK if they had any in france but muslims in this area have no fanatic or "bad" mullahs. However in Oak Park, or one of the other neighboring towns, their was a charity that funded Al Qaida.