Macedon Campaign H/H - Whats happened to the Spartans ?

[TTRouble]

Played my 2nd battle against the Spartan's and was shocked by how easy they were to beat and be beaten badly. In the previous Macdeon campaign I had some really tough but good battles against them .. I'd usually win by a nice margin but today it was just plain silly. They routed way to early, even the hoplite and pike units who previously would fight to the last man but not this time. So somethigns definitely changed.

Here's the battle

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I'm not sure what can be done but I liked them in the previous campaign even thuogh theye were a pain in the butt to finish off.

TTrouble

[swhunter]

Played my 2nd battle against the Spartan's and was shocked by how easy they were to beat and be beaten badly. In the previous Macdeon campaign I had some really tough but good battles against them .. I'd usually win by a nice margin but today it was just plain silly. They routed way to early, even the hoplite and pike units who previously would fight to the last man but not this time. So somethigns definitely changed.

Here's the battle

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I'm not sure what can be done but I liked them in the previous campaign even thuogh theye were a pain in the butt to finish off.

TTrouble

Thank you. Yes this should be be dressed.
A while back i played Mace. And found the Spartans very hard.
But beatable, since their armies were less armoured and smaller stacks.
Maybe tone or DVK can see if they need more troops, or lower the free Greeks ecom. to recruit so Sparta can expand.
Yet in my campaign, my free Greeks were pretty good this time around.
And Mace. is a challenge.

[TTRouble]

Thank you. Yes this should be be dressed.
A while back i played Mace. And found the Spartans very hard.
But beatable, since their armies were less armoured and smaller stacks.
Maybe tone or DVK can see if they need more troops, or lower the free Greeks ecom. to recruit so Sparta can expand.
Yet in my campaign, my free Greeks were pretty good this time around.
And Mace. is a challenge.

Hi Hunter ...

Agree with everything you said on Sparta .. they were so much harder to beat in the previous campaign but last night they just crumbled even before I had managed to take out their General. So that definitely needs to be addressed. I thought previously that Sparta was about nearly right.. just need to be a wee bit harder to beat. I'm going to test the Greeks today and see how they fair against the same army.

I've been thinking that perhaps they should also may be start off with a basic +1 armourer or may be +1 higher experience to all troops, although in yesterdays battle all of the troops were already at +2 experience.

Cheers

TTRouble

[Paedric]

You said they routed too early, so it is not the stats?

Could you please try to fight a custom battle against them, to see if it is the same there. And could someone else try this too.

[TTRouble]

Hi Paedric

Sorry should have been a bit more clear. Its definitely not the stats. They were just way too easy to beat and that applies to nearly every unit from the hoplites to the pikemen - the Spartan archers stood their ground longer than the others but they all routed. I'll do a custom battle when i get home tonight and see how that plays out with the same unit types.

Cheers

TTRouble

[dvk901]

I have no idea why Sparta would be any different. Their economy in the non-player campaigns is a bit lower, but the unit stats haven't changed at all. So I don't know...?

[TTRouble]

Ok.. did a custom battle twice against the same type of Spartan army but this time giving them as a full stack of units (no elite hoplites though)

In both custom battles the Spartan's were harder to beat than in the campaign game - I couldn;t break them as easily, and 2-3 of my own units routed in both battles. Both battles lasted 15-20 mins compared to what seemd like 5 mins in the campaign. More kills made by the spartan's in both battles - compare that to the campaign game where they only inflicted 49 kills.

Spartan Army - similar mix of unit types with same level of experience as in the campaign. No armour upgrades.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Custom Battle one: I made a mistake with my macedon army in battle 1 - 3 too many cretan archers, when in the campaign it was 2 greek archers (+2 exp) + 1 cretan archer.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Custom Battle 2 - Modified my Macdeon army to match the one in the campaign

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Here's the results from a battle in the first campaign against 4 different spartan armies in 2 battles - all very small but look at the kills that they were making and compare that with now:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

They are still in my opnion too easy to beat in the custom game with the mix of units that I chose and what the AI seems to be picking in the current Mac campaign.

TTRouble

[TTRouble]

Just had a battle against nearest Greek Cities Army near Athens, and pretty much the same thing happend against them as against the Spartans, although most of the athenian army decided to flee apart from one cav unit and one athenian hoplites who battled to the end and only routed after I had 3 heavy cav units charge them twice in the rear. The Battle lasted about 5 mins... may be a wee bit more but not that much.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Ok, this is teh first Greek city army that I've gone up against but they were just as hard to beat as the spartan's in the first Mace campaign. These are too easy .. or I'm just too good ..



TTRouble

[Timefool]

Are you sure you put the game on H/H? That may be the reason why they are easier. Lower difficulties lower their morale which would explain whats going on.

[TTRouble]

Definitely playing H/H for RSII. With RS1.6 .. i was always playing VH/VH and would have been playing H/VH had it been recommended.I'll play one nore battle against the Greeks and if its the same I'll restart the camp.

[tone]

You should never play the campaign on VH. Battles: yes - campaign: no

[TTRouble]

First.. sorry to dreg this old one out but I thought it was better than starting a new post.

First battle between Macedon and Sparta in the Mac Campaign (BI, HH, 0 turn) since the release. As in all my pervious campaigns I've tried to leave both the Greeks and Spartans alone for the first 15-20 years.

The changes that were made including the armour upgrades have made Sparta so much better as an opponent - I could not get their infantry army to rout even after numerous cavalry charges until right at the end of the battle. I had thought that I was actually going to loose as theyre infantry were chewing through my units - the final results don;t show it but the battle was so much closer than that and if I didn;t have superior cavalry I surely would have lost. So great job on making those changes

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Cheers

TTRouble