win-win-situations are deceptive?

[Templedog]

I have always found the win-win-situation very interesting. After thinking about it long and hard I realized what the win-win-situations never win.

For instance(7 years ago); I helped a bum get a hot meal. I felt good afterwards, and thought to myself "I did the right thing" believing I got "points" to get to heaven, because I was trying to follow the path of Jesus. All my catholic brothers believed that was the good thing to do, but deep down I felt guilty. I didn't help that bum because I really wanted to help him. I did it out of selfishnous.I did something good for someone and I felt truely truely guilty, the greatest eye-opening feeling I have ever felt.

The Bum, knowing that I was a follower of faith, knew that I didn't help him for the sake of helping him. He knew I helped him because I was also helping myself. A win-win-situation.

After drifting farther away from my original catholic beliefs for many reasons (way off subject). I now help people without the selfish stigma. I truely help people without expecting anything in return. There is no win-win, something I believe Jesus Christ honesty acknowledged.

I believe this is the biggest problem with society today. People try to follow the example of Jesus Christ, but it is impossilbe. We should actually take the path of Jesus Christ with his pure thinking.

any thoughts or insights into this way of thinking?

[Erik]

Did you realy only feel good because you think you scored heaven points?

I am an atheist but I sometimes give something to bums too.
I don't expect anything back but I do feel good about myself.
I am also a socialist so helping the needed fits my moral ideals.

[Templedog]

Did you realy only feel good because you think you scored heaven points?

yes, because he was a stupid looser. Once you come to this logic, you have to ask yourself, who is worth helping? I guess it is either all, or no one.

[Mr.Flint]

yes, because he was a stupid looser.

you mean you not he?

[Erik]

yes, because he was a stupid looser. Once you come to this logic, you have to ask yourself, who is worth helping? I guess it is either all, or no one.

In that case I doubt you scored any heaven points.
But I don't realy know the system.

Christian moral ideals and Socialist ideals are rather similar, once you think about it.

I think the teachings of Jesus is very simular to socialism, yes.
But Christianity is very different from socialism, interesting huh?

[Templedog]

yes, i agree, interesting.

the scoring didn't stop Flint? I don't want any points because I want people to know when I help them, there's no points behind it...no selfish win-wins. If the whole world was like this everyone would sympathize with each other in a true unselfish manner. That's just how I feel about it

[Mr.Flint]

yes, i agree, interesting.

the scoring didn't stop Flint? I don't want any points because I want people to know when I help them, there's no points behind it...no selfish win-wins. If the whole world was like this everyone would sympathize with each other in a true unselfish manner.

the fact that you consider him a stupid looser, means that you are a selfish person that even now, commits "good deeds" just to show how good you are to others.

[John I Tzimisces]

In that case I doubt you scored any heaven points.
But I don't realy know the system.


I think the teachings of Jesus is very simular to socialism, yes.
But Christianity is very different from socialism, interesting huh?

Christianity is basically socialism with a Messiah and The Almighty tacked on. And thats coming from a future seminarian. (somehow thats gonna come back to haunt me...)

Not to say that is a bad thing AT ALL.

[Fenris]

yes, because he was a stupid looser. Once you come to this logic, you have to ask yourself, who is worth helping? I guess it is either all, or no one.

And yet, he calls himself a christian. So basically you act like the christians morals tell you so only to score heaven points, but not because you agree with them?

Really...

[Templedog]

And yet, he calls himself a christian. So basically you act like the christians morals tell you so only to score heaven points, but not because you agree with them?

Really...

I don't call my self a christian anymore. You obviously don't even understand what I am talking about. Maybe if you did some mushrooms or some LSD your mind would open up alittle.

I don't need personal attacks.

[Fenris]

I don't call my self a christian anymore. You obviously don't even understand what I am talking about.

Sorry missed that part (and a very important one, I might add :laughing: ).

[John I Tzimisces]

Christian moral ideals and Socialist ideals are rather similar, once you think about it.

It depends on what you think is a win-win situation. I don't do good deeds for heaven points, I do them because its good, and it makes me feel good that I helped someone. "heaven points" or what have you seem to be more of a by-product for such good deeds.

[Mr.Flint]

Strange, im neither socialist nor christian, yet i dont think of my gains when i help a person in need....

[John I Tzimisces]

Strange, im neither socialist nor christian, yet i dont think of my gains when i help a person in need....

Well, I don't help people to feel better about myself, I help people, and end up feeling better anyways. It would be greedy to expect to feel better by doing good deeds. motivation and whatnot.

[Mr.Flint]

Well, I don't help people to feel better about myself, I help people, and end up feeling better anyways. It would be greedy to expect to feel better by doing good deeds. motivation and whatnot.

Frankly i dont really think about feeling better about myself... im just doing it and thats it

[Templedog]

the bum, now I would help him, because I choose to help all, instead of no one... but I have to pick and choose based on reason.

I think all catholics help on a selfish basis and don't realize it.

[Mr.Flint]

the bum, now I would help him, because I choose to help all, instead of no one... but I have to pick and choose based on reason.

I think all catholics help on a selfish basis and don't realize it.

Then you didnt "score" back then and neither today

I think the teachings of Jesus is very simular to socialism, yes.
But Christianity is very different from socialism, interesting huh?

proto-christianity was a form of proto-socialism

[Ran Taro]

The only issue here is guilt.

If you do something that helps someone, feel good about it. I don't care why you did it. If you get something out of it too, that's gravy. Or alternatley, you feeling good could be the main thing and the other guy getting something out of it could be gravy. It really doesn't matter.The point is: overall something helpful happened.

Guilt is a waste of time. Use the energy to make something else thats good happen.

[Templedog]

The only issue here is guilt.

If you do something that helps someone, feel good about it. I don't care why you did it. If you get something out of it too, that's gravy. Or alternatley, you feeling good could be the main thing and the other guy getting something out of it could be gravy. It really doesn't matter.The point is: overall something helpful happened.

Guilt is a waste of time. Use the energy to make something else thats good happen.

I agree. It is guilt. But the problem is where the guilt comes from, and it comes from the win-win situation.

[Justinian]

What's wrong with a win-win situation? Sure, you're winning, but the hobo is winning too. So you're helping the hobo. Surely it's better then a win-lose situation.