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    Default Bush's Latest Mantra - Reading Between the Lines

    I Was Wrong, but So Were You
    Parsing Bush's new mantra.

    By Fred Kaplan
    Posted Monday, Nov. 14, 2005, at 6:39 PM ET

    President George W. Bush has suddenly shifted rhetoric on the war in Iraq. Until recently, the administration's line was basically, "Everything we are saying and doing is right." It was a line that held him in good stead, especially with his base, which admired his constancy above all else. Now, though, as his policies are failing and even his base has begun to abandon him, a new line is being trotted out: "Yes, we were wrong about some things, but everybody else was wrong, too, so get over it."

    Quite apart from the political motives behind the move, does Bush have a point? Did everybody believe, in the run-up to the war, that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction? And are Bush's Democratic critics, therefore, hypocritically rewriting history when they now protest that the president misled them—and the rest of us—into war by manipulating intelligence data?

    President Bush made this claim—and thus inaugurated the new line of counterattack—at a Veterans Day speech last Friday before a guaranteed-to-cheer crowd at Tobyhanna Army Depot in Pennsylvania, one of the few American military bases that no sitting president had ever visited. (The White House transcript of the 50-minute speech notes a breathtaking 47 interruptions for applause.)

    As with many of the president's carefully worded speeches on the subject, this one contains fragments of truth—for instance, nearly everyone, including the war's opponents, did think back in the fall of 2002 that Saddam had WMDs—but they serve only to disguise the larger falsehoods and deceptions.
    Let's go to the transcript:

    Some Democrats and anti-war critics are now claiming we manipulated the intelligence and misled the American people about why we went to war. These critics are fully aware that a bipartisan Senate investigation found no evidence of political pressure to change the intelligence community's judgments related to Iraq's weapons programs.

    This is not true. Two bipartisan panels have examined the question of how the intelligence on Iraq's WMDs turned out so wrong. Both deliberately skirted the issue of why. The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence deferred the second part of its probe—dealing with whether officials oversimplified or distorted the conclusions reached by the various intelligence agencies—until after the 2004 election, and its Republican chairman has done little to revive the issue since. Judge Laurence Silberman, who chaired a presidential commission on WMDs, said, when he released the 601-page report last March, "Our executive order did not direct us to deal with the use of intelligence by policymakers, and all of us agreed that that was not part of our inquiry."

    There's something misleading about Bush's wording on this point, as well: The investigation "found no evidence of political pressure to change the intelligence community's judgments." The controversy concerns pressure from the White House and the secretary of defense to form the judgments—that is, to make sure the agencies reached specific judgments—not to change them afterward.

    They also know that intelligence agencies from around the world agreed with our assessment of Saddam Hussein.

    This is an intriguingly ambiguous statement. What does he mean by "our assessment of Saddam Hussein"? Of the man—his motives, intentions, wishes, fantasies? In which case, he's right. Most of the world's intelligence agencies figured Saddam Hussein would like to have weapons of mass destruction. If he means an assessment of Saddam Hussein's capabilities, though, he's wrong: Several countries' spy agencies never bought the notion that Saddam had such weapons or the means to produce them in the near future.

    They know the United Nations passed more than a dozen resolutions citing the development and possession of weapons of mass destruction.

    This, too, is misleading. These resolutions called on Saddam to declare the state of his WMD arsenal and, if he claimed there was no such thing, to produce records documenting its destruction. The resolutions never claimed—or had the intention of claiming—that he had such weapons.

    Saddam did demonstrably have chemical-weapons facilities when the U.N. Security Council started drafting these resolutions. But, as noted by former weapons inspector David Kay (but unnoted in President Bush's speech), President Bill Clinton's 1998 airstrikes destroyed the last of these facilities.

    [M]any of these critics supported my opponent during the last election, who explained his position to support the resolution in the Congress this way: "When I vote to give the President of the United States the authority to use force, if necessary, to disarm Saddam Hussein, it is because I believe that a deadly arsenal of mass destruction in his hands is a threat, and a grave threat, to our security."

    Bush's opponent, Sen. John Kerry, did utter these words, possibly to his later regret. Still the key phrase is "to use force if necessary." Kerry has since said—as have many other Democrats who voted as he did—that they assumed the president wouldn't use force unless it really was necessary to do so, or unless the intelligence he cited was unambiguous and the threat he envisioned was fairly imminent. This, Bush never did.

    That's why more than a hundred Democrats in the House and Senate—who had access to the same intelligence—voted to support removing Saddam Hussein from power.

    This is the crucial point: these Democrats did not have "access to the same intelligence." The White House did send Congress a classified National Intelligence Estimate, at nearly 100 pages long, as well as a much shorter executive summary. It could have been (and no doubt was) predicted that very few lawmakers would take the time to read the whole document. The executive summary painted the findings in overly stark terms. And even the NIE did not cite the many dissenting views within the intelligence community. The most thorough legislators, for instance, were not aware until much later of the Energy Department's doubts that Iraq's aluminum tubes were designed for atomic centrifuges—or of the dissent about "mobile biological weapons labs" from the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research.

    Intelligence estimates are unwieldy documents, often studded with dissenting footnotes. Legislators and analysts with limited security clearances have often thought they had "access to intelligence," but unless they could see the footnotes, they didn't.

    For instance, in the late 1950s, many senators thought President Dwight Eisenhower was either a knave or a fool for denying the existence of a "missile gap." U.S. Air Force Intelligence estimates—leaked to the press and supplied to the Air Force's allies on Capitol Hill—indicated that the Soviet Union would have at least 500 intercontinental ballistic missiles by 1962, far more than the U.S. arsenal. What the "missile gap" hawks didn't know—and Eisenhower did—was that the Central Intelligence Agency had recently acquired new evidence indicating that the Soviets couldn't possibly have more than 50 ICBMs by then—fewer than we would. (As it turned out, photoreconnaissance satellites, which were secretly launched in 1960, revealed that even that number was too high; the Soviets had only a couple of dozen ICBMs.)

    So, yes, nearly everyone thought Saddam was building WMDs, just as everyone back in the late '50s thought Nikita Khrushchev was building hundreds of ICBMs. In Saddam's case, many of us outsiders (I include myself among them) figured he'd had biological and chemical weapons before; producing such weapons isn't rocket science; U.N. inspectors had been booted out of Iraq a few years earlier; why wouldn't he have them now?

    What we didn't know—and what the Democrats in Congress didn't know either—was that many insiders did have reasons to conclude otherwise. There is also now much reason to believe that top officials—especially Vice President Dick Cheney and the undersecretaries surrounding Donald Rumsfeld in the Pentagon—worked hard to keep those conclusions trapped inside.

    President Bush's national security adviser, Stephen Hadley, said today that the arguments over how and why the war began are irrelevant. "We need to put this debate behind us," he said. But the truth is, no debate could be more relevant now. As the war in Iraq enters yet another crucial phase—with elections scheduled next month and Congress finally taking up the issue of whether to send more troops or start pulling them out—we need to know whether the people running the executive branch can be trusted, and the sad truth is that they cannot be.

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    He is right and something I think some posts from some of us right wingers have said in various threads, that alot of the vocal antiwar people now sure believed in all the evidence as much as any "evil neocon" did then. The problem is HE is the president and ultimately the blame/success of things fall on his shoulders and the assumption (as post said) is the President *should* know more on these matters then members of congress since he is the head of the goverment. Its why I still say that Bill Clinton's refusal to attack the *reasons* for the Iraq war is more important then any senator or democrat since he of all people would have the most knowledge of all of this outside of Bush. Now could just be Clinton being the ultimate politican and simply not feeling the need to comment on it but even Hillary only attacks the way Iraq has been ran not that it happened.

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    So Bush was wrong maybe? Whats the point? The libs are acting like they never backed the war when in fact even Kerry said during operation desert fox that Clintons bombing of iraq was not enough and that we should put boots on the ground there. Ill remind you Bush wasnt even running yet at that time and was still the Govenor of Texas.
    I have nothing against the womens movement. Especially when Im walking behind it.


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    Their are some democrats that were against the war from the beginning, though in the minority they exist.
    Swear filters are for sites run by immature children.

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    First Crusader's Avatar Senator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanaric
    Their are some democrats that were against the war from the beginning, though in the minority they exist.
    Could say the same for the right wingers, like William Lind and Patrick Buccanan.
    Heresy grows from idleness.

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    Templedog's Avatar Biarchus
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    The senate didn't have the same intellegence as the President. With all their corruption, it is easy to assume they made things up. We all know they pushed the "in the form of a mushroom cloud" speech just imagine what they showed the democrats behind closed doors........

    http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/11/12.html#a5835 Hardball Video


    They got lucky and hijacked some airplanes. I could of done that drunk. War on terror is BS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Templedog
    The senate didn't have the same intellegence as the President.
    The Armed Services Commitee did...

    (Take a look who was on that )
    Faithfully under the patronage of the fallen yet rather amiable Octavian.

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    Templedog's Avatar Biarchus
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    yes, I know about that. The senators on that committee did not get the same info from the CIA and the state departmentas the president. Some republicans have even said so. Lawrence B. Wilkerson, Colin Powell's Deputy executive officer has even came out and said this!
    http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/11/05.html#a5718 video

    The administration held back information they recieved from the CIA and State Department. That is one of the many reasons the democrats shut down the senate floor demanding phase 2 of the investigation.
    Last edited by Templedog; November 16, 2005 at 12:53 AM.


    They got lucky and hijacked some airplanes. I could of done that drunk. War on terror is BS.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Templedog
    yes, I know about that. The senators on that committee did not get the same info from the CIA and the state departmentas the president. Some republicans have even said so. Lawrence B. Wilkerson, Colin Powell's Deputy executive officer has even came out and said this!
    http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/11/05.html#a5718 video

    The administration held back information they recieved from the CIA and State Department. That is one of the many reasons the democrats shut down the senate floor demanding phase 2 of the investigation.
    Did Clinton???

    Dude, you're just wrong here, I'm sorry. They had FULL access to the same intel.

    PERIOD.

    (Some act like Bush is a monarch and Congress just sits and watches....gesH)
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    Legio XX Valeria Victrix's Avatar Great Scott!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Alameda
    Did Clinton???

    Dude, you're just wrong here, I'm sorry. They had FULL access to the same intel.

    PERIOD.

    (Some act like Bush is a monarch and Congress just sits and watches....gesH)
    Well, they did and they didn't, according to the article. They received all the intel that the Bush administration wanted them to receive. As it said, the intel that was dissenting with what their agenda was, was left out. That information usually comes in the footnotes, which I guess their documents issued by the administration did not have. So, yes, it's the intel Bush had, but not ALL the intel.


    "For what is the life of a man, if it is not interwoven with the life of former generations by a sense of history?" - Cicero

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legio XX Valeria Victrix
    Well, they did and they didn't, according to the article. They received all the intel that the Bush administration wanted them to receive. As it said, the intel that was dissenting with what their agenda was, was left out. That information usually comes in the footnotes, which I guess their documents issued by the administration did not have. So, yes, it's the intel Bush had, but not ALL the intel.
    I'm sorry but that article isn't law bud.

    I beg to differ. We've already agreed twice this week anyway. We wouldn't want to give everyone the wrong idea! hehe.

    I'll dig up the stuff on it later if I can, I'm cramped for time now. The truth is, every member of the Senate is allowed to request a special briefing (not just the ASC). The clinton administration had the same intel and nobody questioned them. The french had the same, the russians, the germans, the brits, the chinese. They all agreed he had the chit. The difference of opinion was what to do about it.

    So just because we didn't agree on the 'what to do part' doesn't mean everyone who agreed with the intel now gets to convienently change their position on a premise of 'false advertising'. It's completely intellecuatlly dishonest.
    Faithfully under the patronage of the fallen yet rather amiable Octavian.

    Smile! The better the energy you put in, the better the energy you will get out.

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    Legio XX Valeria Victrix's Avatar Great Scott!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Alameda
    I'm sorry but that article isn't law bud.

    I beg to differ. We've already agreed twice this week anyway. We wouldn't want to give everyone the wrong idea! hehe.

    I'll dig up the stuff on it later if I can, I'm cramped for time now. The truth is, every member of the Senate is allowed to request a special briefing (not just the ASC). The clinton administration had the same intel and nobody questioned them. The french had the same, the russians, the germans, the brits, the chinese. They all agreed he had the chit. The difference of opinion was what to do about it.

    So just because we didn't agree on the 'what to do part' doesn't mean everyone who agreed with the intel now gets to convienently change their position on a premise of 'false advertising'. It's completely intellecuatlly dishonest.
    Well, I was basing my arguments on the article, and my contextual knowledge of the issue. I'll admit, I don't know a tremendous amount about the procedure involved in passing information between the executive and legislative branches. So any flaw in that article would be a flaw in my argument, but I still think there's more to be done to totally disprove it.


    "For what is the life of a man, if it is not interwoven with the life of former generations by a sense of history?" - Cicero

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    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    It's true that both American parties were wrong.
    "Old Europe" was right, however, that's no reason to stop bashing them.
    How typical of those cowardly French to get reliable intelligence on their enemy before attacking them.
    What's wrong? too scared to attack them blindfolded?

    Americans don't even need to know what they are fighting for.
    As long as they are geting killed in stead of the French they have reason te be proud.



  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik
    It's true that both American parties were wrong.
    "Old Europe" was right, however, that's no reason to stop bashing them.
    How typical of those cowardly French to get reliable intelligence on their enemy before attacking them.
    What's wrong? too scared to attack them blindfolded?
    Rewriting history 101....

    "What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs." -- Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002

    Sure sounds to me that Chirac is saying he doesnt know whether Iraq had WMD or not and was playing the fence with that comment. Hardly an indication that 'Old Europe" had reliable intelligence....

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    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Quote Originally Posted by danzig
    Rewriting history 101....

    "What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs." -- Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002

    Sure sounds to me that Chirac is saying he doesnt know whether Iraq had WMD or not and was playing the fence with that comment. Hardly an indication that 'Old Europe" had reliable intelligence....
    No, he said there was a POTANTIAL threat of Saddam making new WMD's.
    He doesn't say there is evidence that Saddam had WMD's, he said there is some evidence that Saddam was TRYING to get WMD's.

    The US said their was an immediate threat of WMD's.
    Chirac said there was only a potential threat of WMD's.
    Huge difference.



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    A country under constant siege, surrounded for 12 years by American forces. 7 of these 12 years weapons inspectors were working in Iraq. Well, come on. That WMD story wasn't that good and I won't elaborate about the mental capacities of those having bought into that tale.

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    Meh, this is what we europeans have said all the time!

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    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    My personal view of the situation is that Bush should resign. He is attracting the hatred of all the world on America, just by producing a countinuous series of blunders. The episode of white phosphorus, was just too much.

    Today the city of Turin has banned Coca-Cola as a sponsor for the winter Olympics (which the city will host) because leftists here in the boot don't want Coca-Cola, an American symbol, to be shown in the occasion of an international event such as this.

    Despite the fact that this is seriously misguided, and an example of typical post-communist behaviour in Italy, it shows the level of hatred that (not always wrongly) Bush is inspiring. Something which is really worrying.

  19. #19
    Semisalis
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    My personal view of the situation is that Bush should resign. He is attracting the hatred of all the world on America, just by producing a countinuous series of blunders. The episode of white phosphorus, was just too much.

    white Phosphorus?, aren't those regular smoke grenades, what was the incident behind those?

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbarion horde
    white Phosphorus?, aren't those regular smoke grenades, what was the incident behind those?
    There are some reports bubbling up that WP munitions were being used directly on fighters in Falluja.

    http://news.yahoo.com/fc/us/us_armed_forces

    I'm reminded of Killgore stepping down from his chopper, talking about napalm...

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