Script To The Waist
M2TW Archery Guide and Stats (+Kingdoms)
This is a collection of useful information regarding the humble archer. Or to be more precise: "non-artillery projectiles". For simplicity I'll just use the terms "archers" and "arrows" but this includes crossbows and gunpowder units, mounted or foot.
It also contains some tables of stats, including some lesser-known ones. That is, ones that are in descr_projectile.txt and export_descr_unit.txt but not visible in-game...
M2TW Stats
Kingdoms Stats
Similar Guides:
Third Age Total War
Last edited by Withwnar; August 05, 2010 at 02:05 AM.
Script To The Waist
M2TW Archery Guide and Stats
M2TW Stats (part 1)
All Statistics
Accuracy
* Accuracy values with a * are "default accuracy". Their accuracy_vs_units stat has been commented out in descr_projectile.txt and so inherit the game engine's default accuracy value. I am unsure of what this number actually is but I believe it to be 0.05, as explained here.
[M2TW v1.03]
All stat tables were generated by the Total War Projectiles tool.
Last edited by Withwnar; August 29, 2010 at 04:45 AM.
Script To The Waist
M2TW Archery Guide and Stats
M2TW Stats (part 2)
Range
Missile Attack
[M2TW v1.03]
Last edited by Withwnar; July 30, 2010 at 05:57 AM.
Script To The Waist
M2TW Archery Guide and Stats
Kingdoms Stats (part 2)
[Kingdoms v1.05]
Last edited by Withwnar; August 29, 2010 at 05:14 AM. Reason: updated faction colours
Script To The Waist
M2TW Archery Guide and Stats
Kingdoms Stats (part 1)
[Kingdoms v1.05]
Last edited by Withwnar; August 29, 2010 at 05:04 AM. Reason: updated faction colours
Tiro
Re: Archery Guide (M2TW)
Wicked, thanks for this!
Miles
Re: Archery Guide (M2TW)
Nice guide, but this never happens to me:
'If you have multiple archers selected at the same time (e.g. a numbered group) and then right-click on the enemy unit to fire at they will ignore you.
You have to give the target order to each unit individually.
I never have that problem. Maybe my archers are more discliplined...
"In stone halls they burn their great fires,
in stone halls they forge their sharp spears.
Whilst I walk alone in the mountains,
with no true companion but tears.
They hunt me with dogs in the daylight,
they hunt me with torches by night."
Primicerius
Re: Archery Guide (M2TW)
That happened to me with my xbows, but it depends how many I selected: two or three and no problem, more and it's a pain. Usually it can be seen when double click on the target, if you don't have the fast forward sign on the unit card, then the order was not accepted.Originally Posted by King Of Scotland
Nice guide, but this never happens to me:
'
I never have that problem. Maybe my archers are more discliplined...
Great guide there, you definately put efforts on it. +1
Miles
Re: Archery Guide (M2TW)
Nope.... I had seven units of Noble Highland Archers in a group and I were able to double-click them to everywhere...
"In stone halls they burn their great fires,
in stone halls they forge their sharp spears.
Whilst I walk alone in the mountains,
with no true companion but tears.
They hunt me with dogs in the daylight,
they hunt me with torches by night."
Script To The Waist
Re: Archery Guide (M2TW)
Thanks fellas.
Double-click? Fast-forward? I take it that these are referring to moving units to attack an out-of-range enemy. Hmmm, maybe it does work in that situation (not sure). Once your archers get to in range are they all firing at the unit you targeted or do they fire at random targets?
My tip was for when the enemy is already in range. I can't say for sure that they always ignore the order but from my experience they tend to shoot at random targets. It might also depend on whether or not fire-at-will is on.
Primicerius
Re: Archery Guide (M2TW)
The fast forward sign appears for a few instant when you double click on the target when in range (hit pause first and you'll see it on the unit cards, there is still the white bow symbol). But a few rare time when I select a big group of xbows (like 6 or more units) and order to fire the fast forward sign does not always appear and they carry on shooting on the previous target. I don't have that problem wih 1 or 2 selected units.
Senator
Re: Archery Guide (M2TW)
the ignore order never happen to me either....normally when you have a numbered group and order a fire attack they will do a general firing...meaning they pick a unit directly in front of them and shoot. If the enemy's formation is not uniform...then they'll pick their own respective target
Other than that point....neat guide
Script To The Waist
Re: Archery Guide (M2TW)
Thanks mate.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but that's what I mean by "ignore". They're firing at their own targets and not at the single target that you gave them all when you right-clicked on the enemy unit.
Script To The Waist
Re: Archery Guide (M2TW)
Update: added unit size to the "All Statistics" table
EDIT: Also, I have looked further into the "Group Firing" behaviour and updated the info in the OP accordingly. You gentlemen are correct: in the situations you mentioned they do behave properly.
Last edited by Withwnar; July 29, 2010 at 03:58 AM.
Script To The Waist
Re: M2TW Archery Guide and Stats (+Kingdoms)
Major update: added Kingdoms stats
Script To The Waist
Re: M2TW Archery Guide and Stats (+Kingdoms)
Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying that. I might have another look and see if it's directly related to my updated findings.
Double-click you say. Maybe it has something to do with that. I always single-click unless the target is out of range and I want my guys to run into range. But if the target is already in range then there's no need to run anywhere - maybe double-clicking confuses the engine here?
Senator
Re: M2TW Archery Guide and Stats (+Kingdoms)
The way I always cured archers deciding for themselves what to shoot was by cancelling autofire then hitting backspace to cancel their current (seemlingly self given!) firing orders, then click on the enemy I do want dead. Excellent guide though, I'd never thought of leaving the space on castle walls before!
Something worth adding might be tips with stakes too? I know a lot of people have had success with placing them infront of castle gates in sieges, and I've even managed to deploy them from on top of walls once or twice (they appear at the bottom).
Although it ruins line of sight, I often place stakes in the center of my line, and have the archers "in" units of melee infantry like dismounted knights of some sort, then switch skirmish mode off and move them behind the knights as soon as battle starts. This way, the dismounted knights have the protection from cavalry to the front, forcing enemy horsemen to go to the flanks. Spearmen can guard your flanks very adequately, especially with help from cavalry. This leaves your heavy infantry free to mangle anything coming towards your centre, and your archers are perfectly safe and can maintain a constant fire against anything in range, and in some circumstances are good enough to charge into melee themselves. Yeoman and Retinue archers for example. Any enemy already engaged usually isn't going to stick around long so you'll usually see white banners before you see too many dead archers.
Another thing I find handy is that it doesn't matter if all your archers are using flaming ammunition, or just one of the units. The "panicked by fire attack" will be there either way, this leaves the rest of your archers free to fire conventionally, which is somewhat more effective.
Last edited by Turtle Hammer; August 03, 2010 at 07:38 AM.
Script To The Waist
Re: M2TW Archery Guide and Stats (+Kingdoms)
Thanks for the comments Turtle.
Stakes: good point seeing as only (?) missile units have them. However, I think that their proper use involves other units and so would come under "general battle tactics" which I'll leave to the experts. Anybody is welcome to post tactics here of course, so long as it focuses on archers.
This is interesting. Thanks, I'll add it to the OP. I ran a quick test...
[TATW 2.0]
Me: two Eldar Archer units, side by side
Enemy: two Snaga Skirmishers (OotMM, not known for their good morale)
I ran the scenario three times: 1) both firing flame, 2) both firing normal, 3) one of each. Always firing at the unit that was not the general's one. The table shows how many volleys were fired by the time that unit routed, and how many of that unit were still alive...
Test Type 1 Volleys 1 Type 2 Volleys 2 Alive 1 Normal 8 Normal 8 34 2 Flame 5 Flame 5 97 3 Flame 4 Normal 7 79
Flame+Normal caused routing the fastest: the time it took to fire 4 flame / 7 normal volleys (as opposed to 5 / 8 in the other tests). It also used fewer arrows than Normal+Normal (11 volleys vs 16) which is good to know if you need to conserve arrows for use on the other enemy units. Note that Flame+Flame only used 10 volleys.
It's only one scenario (open field, 2x2 units, etc.) and one test each so perhaps too early to say "scientifically proven". Looks promising though.
I tried both of these techniques but I still get the same result: not all archers fire at the target that I give them. What I did notice, however, is that one of these techniques seemed to help (I don't remember which one - I was trying a lot of things). That is, they were now all firing toward that target but one or two were firing at units near the target.
Praepositus
Re: M2TW Archery Guide and Stats (+Kingdoms)
Another easy way is to either let the enemy get on the walls and then shoot them from below the walls (need to make sure there's some distance for a direct shot though) the enemies always compact in a big way on the walls making them super juicy targets for any missile units. using this sort of tactic I've basically beaten back foot knights with nothing but spear milita and peasant crossbowmans
Additionally, after the enemies ram through the game and start pushing in, having some archers on the side walls which would allow you to fire a direct shot into the big pile that is sure to be present at the gate, almost ensuring that you will always hit something. (make sure your infantry isn't directly up against the gate for this, so you give them a little room to pile up infront of the gates.
1180, an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity in East Asia, it's technology and wealth is the envy of the world. But soon conflict will engulf the entire region with great consequences and lasting effects for centuries to come, not just for this region, but the entire known world, when one man, one people, unites.....
Re: M2TW Archery Guide and Stats (+Kingdoms)
If I'm England I have all Archer armies. Stakes in front of the gate when defending a siege is great, and they are also quite good in melee (Longbowmen etc). If I'm anybody else, i prefer xbowmen behind spear militia on a normal battle field (especially the Italian States). In a defensive siege i have a mix on the walls and a few Spears by the gate.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
