Sooo....what happened to the Mamlukes?

They were some of the top light cav of their time. Napoleon was so impressed he ordered some to go. Sure, running light cav into squares isn't necessarily the best idea, but that doesn't diminish their great personal skill and bravery.

Which brings us to the real question.

Why, oh why, do I not have Mamlukes in the Ottoman armies? And why are Shaturnals *still* guys with big muskets?

why oh why are you looking for historical accuracy? its a total war game,they dont know what that phrase means!

Originally Posted by leonn

why oh why are you looking for historical accuracy? its a total war game,they dont know what that phrase means!

If you had said it before the release of Napoleon i would've agreed with you.

Originally Posted by leonn

why oh why are you looking for historical accuracy? its a total war game,they dont know what that phrase means!

Napoleon Total War is the most historical TW to date, even more than RTW, MTW2 and defently more than ETW

In that time period the Mamelukes were already semi-independent from the Ottoman Empire, therefore CA had decided to remove the Mameluke cavalry from the Ottos. Since the Mamelukes came from the province of Egypt and Egypt was not in the campaign map, the Ottomans cannot recruit the Mamelukes in the Europe campaign.
But in the Egyptian campaign both the Mameluke and Ottoman factions can recruit Mamelukes (they are really deadly, swift as hussars and have stats of heavy cavalry), and they are also available in the Battle of the Pyramids scenario.

Originally Posted by Prince Francesca

In that time period the Mamelukes were already semi-independent from the Ottoman Empire, therefore CA had decided to remove the Mameluke cavalry from the Ottos. Since the Mamelukes came from the province of Egypt and Egypt was not in the campaign map, the Ottomans cannot recruit the Mamelukes in the Europe campaign.
But in the Egyptian campaign both the Mameluke and Ottoman factions can recruit Mamelukes (they are really deadly, swift as hussars and have stats of heavy cavalry), and they are also available in the Battle of the Pyramids scenario.

U can niether recruit mamelukes as the ottomans or the mamelukes in the Egyptian campaign... nieither can u recruit camel gunners.... this has to be a msitake on the part of CA.

I'm talking about MP >_>

I must admit when I played the Eygptian Campiagn I was surprised by the lack of cavalry in the opposition armies. The Bedouin armies needed to be given special consideration because of their large numbers of camel mounted units but other than that there was no real issue with cavalry, and I was expecting it to be the major tactical problem especially when dealing with the Mamelukes.

Originally Posted by Ashu-Siralis

I'm talking about MP >_>

As I said before, the Mamelukes were semi-independent from the Ottoman Empire by that time, and therefore CA decided to exclude them from the Ottoman roster.

The Mamlukes were ALWAYS semi-independant. That's like saying they shouldn't be able to recruit half their army. However, it wasn't an alliance based system. They were part of the Ottoman realm. The Sultan had power over them. They knew it. Everyone knew it. But there was wiggle room in that. Semi-autonomy is the rule of the game in pre-modern Empires, except for the areas directly around the Sultan-- and for a weak one, even that.

Wow...the Mamlukes suck!

http://totalwar.honga.net/napoleon_u...ight_Mamelukes

They're only one point up from delhi horsemen! No respect at all. Bunch of orientalist piece of crap researchers.

Originally Posted by Ashu-Siralis

Wow...the Mamlukes suck!

http://totalwar.honga.net/napoleon_u...ight_Mamelukes

They're only one point up from delhi horsemen! No respect at all. Bunch of orientalist piece of crap researchers.

Considering the fact that the French only suffered 29 death and 260 wounded compared to the Mamelukes' 3,000 death (plus thousands more of fellahins) in the Battle of the Pyramids, their tactics and equipment must be a little outdated. But I agree they should have better stats though, but their speed was extremely fast.
The inability to recruit Mamelukes for both the Ottoman and Mameluke factions are a BIG mistake, though. The Mamelukes can only spawn massive stacks of Azzars (the crap light infantry) after you massacre their cav.

The battle of the Pyramids was an interesting affair, and I don't think one can judge the Mamlukes strength in a modern army based off of it. What is telling, however, is that Napoleon, who was in no shortage of great cavalrymen, tried to put together his own Mamluke force.

As for the battle of the Pyramids: I don't care who you are, you could be legolases and Aragorns, you could be the horsemen of Rohan, but running into entire divisions in squares with artillery in the center, heavily outnumbered (the cav, just 6000 of them vs. some 21K french infantry in squares and art + baggage in the center), and you're going to get rolled. Besides, the main Mamluke force kinda sat behind the river with popcorn.

Originally Posted by Ashu-Siralis

The battle of the Pyramids was an interesting affair, and I don't think one can judge the Mamlukes strength in a modern army based off of it. What is telling, however, is that Napoleon, who was in no shortage of great cavalrymen, tried to put together his own Mamluke force.

As for the battle of the Pyramids: I don't care who you are, you could be legolases and Aragorns, you could be the horsemen of Rohan, but running into entire divisions in squares with artillery in the center, heavily outnumbered (the cav, just 6000 of them vs. some 21K french infantry in squares and art + baggage in the center), and you're going to get rolled. Besides, the main Mamluke force kinda sat behind the river with popcorn.

I can agree with you. The main Mameluke army was consisted of fellahins, or peasant soldiers, who didn't participate the battle except running away when their elite cavalry force fled.

doesnt fellahin mean farmers ?

Originally Posted by garudamon11

doesnt fellahin mean farmers ?

Let me see.... Yes, fellahins mean farmers in Arabic, describing settlers who stay farming in their land instead of normal Arabic nomadic settlers (Mostly in Egypt and Levant).
The term comprised 60% of Egyptian population, and the Mamelukes recruited them to be the primary footsoldiers of their army, while the more elite classes joined the cavalry.

peasant means farmer too, lol.

All these Cavalry stories with Mamelukes and Arabic/Islam Forces brought memories from Medieval II Total War game..
What a great gaming years....

Actually, the Mamelukes and Egypt were semi-indepndent since they were conquered by the Turks, so in ETW, too. But there, for balance reasons, they gave Egypt to the Turks and allowed the Mamelukes. At the NTW campaign starting date, there were no Mamelukes anymore...

That's the nature of Empires, though. When we say the Brits ruled India, we're right, even though India was officially rules, more than half of it, by semi-autonomous kingdoms that simply upheld British laws in India. They retained their titles, even armies, much like when they were tributaries of the Mughals and the Marathas before. That's the nature of Empire. Think of it as states in the modern world, but more independent, and with more powerful rulers. That doesn't negate the fact that the tax from Egypt went to Istanbul (theoretically), and that Egypt was under the authority of the Ottoman Khalifah.

Originally Posted by RO Citizen

Actually, the Mamelukes and Egypt were semi-indepndent since they were conquered by the Turks, so in ETW, too. But there, for balance reasons, they gave Egypt to the Turks and allowed the Mamelukes. At the NTW campaign starting date, there were no Mamelukes anymore...

Last I checked the mamelukes were readily present during the Austelritz battle as well as the Egyptian Campaign