Crossbow technique

[gord96]

Anyone have any good tips for using crossbow troops effectively? I am playing a campaign with Genoa in SS 6.2 and of course they have lots of crossbows. Have found it frustrating using them, especially in sieges where they seem hesitant to fire and run back and force alot hehe. I am thinking they are not very good assault troops and better used in a field battle or to defend from a siege.

thanks for any tips. in all my times of playing MTW2 and now with SS I have not really ever used the crossbow units for much but would like to give them a try.

thanks again!

[Notees]

All the advice I can offer for sieging is that once you can get them safely into the city, they can wreak massive damage from shooting from the battlements into the city. Or even holding a section of the wall, as they don't SUCK in melee and a volley at point-blank MESSES things up =)

[iamsawyer]

ya i agree i like playing as genoa and if u can get even one on the wall the enemy might as well give up

[hippacrocafish]

Crossbows have a very slow reload speed, so in field battles you won't get many volleys off, especially if the enemy has cavalry. If the enemy has cavalry I say fire one volley (Two if it's a slow unit or they're charging uphill) then withdraw them behind your lines, when the enemy engage your main force send them around to the enemy's flanks and fire into their backs.

[Theseus1234]

Genoese crossbowmen are also decent with a sword, as well, so don't overlook their ability as counter-attack infantry. Just make sure they aren't charged by anything or anyone.

[gord96]

great info guys! thanks very much.

[Ichon]

Good points already mentioned above, especially getting crossbows on wall in sieges and using the nice Genoa crossbows which have decent melee and armor as assault infantry. Especially with some XP and armor upgrades they are the best melee troops Genoa can produce from cities until late era.

In field battles the crossbows can also shine in the right situation. As advised getting off some volley then withdraw behind infanty to then round and fire on enemy flanks works well, even better to fire on the rear of enemy formation or against the enemy archers who typically have less armor and sometimes are even outranged by Genoa crossbows.

When fighting against low armor enemy, archers will usually score many more kills but reverse is true against high armor enemy. Better crossbow units also have quite decent range, especially from an elevation(small hill, battlements in siege, heights on a bridge crossing defense etc). Overall with most missile units elevation is the biggest factor as it adds range and power. Flank and rear fire is also good as it takes away defense skill, shield, and only leaves armor value which is usually less than half the total defense value. Employing crossbows to the rear of enemy formation can be bad idea if there is many cavalry present though I've done it with pairs of crossbows... 1 to draw cavalry charge, the other to fire into rear of cavalry as it charges and even 1-2 volley at close range in the rear of heavy cavalry can really devastate.

Even peasant crossbow can be quite deadly in right situation(usually on a hill firing into flank or rear). I've learned that the hard way myself charging a forward deployed enemy archer on a hill and taking only 1-2 casualties on the way in, routing the enemy archer and turning to run back to my own lines at the base of the hill a lowly peasant crossbow kills half my heavy cavalry with 1 volley or even couple times my general.

Late in the game when facing enemy gunpowder units arbalest and such units still very useful as they have better range and accuracy. Won a few very close battles only due to that.

My favorite as Genoa is probably fighting HRE in open battle near some woods where crossbow can hide and lure HRE cavalry to turn their back on where the crossbow is hidden than watch the devastation.

Worst way to use crossbow is on siege defense along battlements inside settlement trying to shoot outside at attackers. Due to crossbow being a direct fire weapon they achieve very low kill and is a waste. More useful is line the battlement facing inwards a distance away from gate so most of the crossbow unit has angle for direct fire and let them shoot the cavalry that rush through the gates in the back/flank.

Other poor way to use them is aiming directly at front of enemy unit with good shields and armor. The crossbow is AP but such slow reload that is usually a waste unless firing from great elevation. In cities if you can't get on battlements you can angle your infantry in such a way / that there is an opening for crossbow standing behind to be able to target the opposing enemy line. A few FF casualties likely to result from this use but more enemy kills. If the battle is long enough for a crossbow to fire off most of its ammo they can score amazing kill ratio. Rare battle last that long but even firing 1/4 their ammo they can get 1/2 their unit size in kills. Archers typically can get more kill ration to unit size but also exhaust their ammo 1/6 the way into a battle.

[Kawee]

There is nothing qutie like xbow defending the city though. Especially one with big long walls. If you tie the enemy coming up the ladders and into the gate with infantry, and have xbow firing from the battlements onto those enemies, they drop like flies. Because they're so compact, most of the bolts will hit something. Even a peasant xbow unit can get 100+ kills.

[Vaz]

Pavise Crossbows are excellent units. I like to use them myself whenever I get the chance. As for others, such as Mercenary Crossbows, or even Peasant Crossbows, I find they're of more use in the field battles. This is because the Pavise Crossbows can hang it tough in the sieges to support an attack on the walls, or follow up on an undefended stretch with a spare ladder after the enemy have engaged your siege tower and battering ram troops.

True story, as Genoa, employed that tactic against Novgorod, where just two units got almost 600 kills by doing it that way. Two ladders, two siege towers, and a battering ram took the Novgorod city easily - broke through the walls, and then just used all my ammunition up and then they sealed the way off, killing the Dvor Horse Archers.

[gord96]

nice info and story Vaz! thanks!

[Yeepeep]

Something I learned from Erunion:

When defending, don't stack all your troops on top of the gate but put them as far from the gate as possible, in a nice, long line parallel to the wall. Put your crossbows to the two sides, perpendicular to the walls but far from the gate (have some supporting troops behind them).

When the enemy breaks through, they'll engage your lined-up infantry and spread to the sides. If you put the crossbows far enough, the enemy won't engage them but they can wreak havoc over the attackers piled nice and thick around the gate. Then sit back, relax and watch them rout. If you like this, try the same but with the Byzantine siphonotores - a single unit can get 500+ kills if pouring molten hell onto a massive clump of enemies.

Same goes for city square defenses - put your lined up infantry somewhere in the middle of the square but do not let them touch the buildings to the sides - let the enemy make a semi-circle around your outermost troops. The crossbows stay in the two side streets leading to the square, guarded by probably your best units (usually I put the heavy cavalry and general there). When the attackers get to the square and envelop your units from the two sides, unleash the crossbows. Watch them rout

Right now I'm trying to develop another method (playing Rus VH/VH 1220 campaign). If against AP-heavy infantry - put all the cheap archers, javelins, x-bows in front of the infantry line in a guard mode, skirmish mode off. Sure they die, but slow enough so your cavalry can wipe the enemy cavalry and come back. In most cases you won't even lose the dispensable units, the cheap guys heal quite a lot.

[Enomine]

Your crossbows, unlike other bows, require line of site to fire at the enemy. Not only that, but they seem to only fire well at enemy units directly in front of them. In field battles, rather than deploying them in a line like this: - - - - - (where - is a crossbow unit) try deploying them in a V formation
such as: / \ / \ /. The reason for this is that when they are deployed in a line or block, only a few men in each unit have a) a clear line of site, because the men in the back are blocked by the men in the front and b) will have the enemy directly in front of them. Simply deploying them in a thin line won't solve the problem, because then, though more men will have clear line of site, the unit will be spread much wider than most enemy units will be, and those men on the fringes won't be firing at the unit you tell them too (since they need an enemy dead ahead of them to function well). If however you deploy them in a / \ /type formation ( each / is a unit deployed as thinly as possible) then many men will have clear line of site AND the unit will be compact enough to have everyone firing at the enemy ahead. I always had mixed results with crossbows until I started using them like this, and then they began to make up the majority of my kills.

[Abyrvalg]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=288136
Also, nice missile unit guard mode trick:

If the enemy reach your Gasmuli and engage them in Melee, order the Gasmuli to keep firing! (They can only do this in guard mode) This allows your entire battalion to do damage while only 3-4 are taking damage.

[Notees]

I wonder. Does this apply to gunpowder units?

[worldsdead]

never used v tatic, makes sense though. also mean need less defensive units behind xbows to run up and intercept any enemies charging. as the xbows are more compact in v.

[Theseus1234]

Only problem with the V is that supporting units are far behind, and if there's a cavalry charge you don't see coming, then your supporting units probably wont get there in time.

[merocaine]

Playing a short campaign with Genoa at the moment, RR/RC, just tried the "W" formation with 5 units of urban crossbow milita. I put them in Guard Mode skirmish mode off. I was fighting a HRE army with 2 units of Feudal knights and the Emperors bodyguard (40 Plus). A large number of light infantry men, and spears. They were massacred. End of. It was unreal, anytime the AI managed to make contact with the xbows they were being hit in the flanks by the rest of the formation. Only the heavy Cavalry survived long enough to engage the Xbows, since the formation was in guard mode no one stopped firing. My Spear men guarded the flanks, and barely had to do any fighting.
Now the HRE attacked in a quite piecemeal fashion allowing me to concentrate fire on individual units, but still this maximized the firepower of the units, I'm converted!

[worldsdead]

i'm going to have to build some xbows in my russia campaign just to try this out!

[Ichon]

Just be careful when you employ the W formation with 4+ crossbow. A weak general or the enemy having many cavalry could lead to a rout. A decent general and 3-4 or less heavy cavalry and it will probably work as long as you have some spears to engage and pin any cavalry on the flanks. The nice thing about this is is works for a long time even as units become more armored. Only the late era super heavy cavalry units can resist but then you have gunpowder units.

[napoleonic]

I do not understand the V tactic..... why should it be on V?