Buck and Ball

If you don't know, this.

A type of load for a musket. Seems to have been somewhat popular in the US Army but I don't know of any references to it's use elsewhere. Did this sort of thing see use in European conflicts?

That strikes me as damned dangerous, some poor squaddie bits the bullet on that cartridge and he's likely to swallow the stupid little pellets.

Originally Posted by Didz

That strikes me as damned dangerous, some poor squaddie bits the bullet on that cartridge and he's likely to swallow the stupid little pellets.

American firing drill involves biting off the paper at the powder end IIRC. Once the powder is poured into the pan and the barrel, the paper is used as wadding and is pushed down while still wrapped around the bullet.

Originally Posted by SMIDSY

American firing drill involves biting off the paper at the powder end IIRC. Once the powder is poured into the pan and the barrel, the paper is used as wadding and is pushed down while still wrapped around the bullet.

Ah! well that would be safer, but I'm pretty sure Euorpean drill involved biting the bullet and then pourning the powdered from the cartridge into the pan and barrel before spitting the bullet down on top of it. I think the cardridge case was still used as wadding but merely to keep the ball in place before firing. That might explain why these buck and ball cartridges never caught on.

The other thing that occurred to me looking at the image you posted is the the buck-shot is remarkably small. I can understand how it might still cause serious injury to a semi-naked savage, but i wonder how effective the light shots would be aganst a soldiers wearing thick woolen overcoats, leather crossbelts and in some cases a cuirass. It doesn't look to me as though those balls would have much penetration, and we know that many European soldiers went into battle wearing their greatcoats just to reduce the risk of injury from full sized musket balls at longer ranges.

Originally Posted by Didz

Ah! well that would be safer, but I'm pretty sure Euorpean drill involved biting the bullet and then pourning the powdered from the cartridge into the pan and barrel before spitting the bullet down on top of it. I think the cardridge case was still used as wadding but merely to keep the ball in place before firing. That might explain why these buck and ball cartridges never caught on.

Actually biting the bullet from a cartridge is a myth, Various Authors have made this mistake, a 50/50 guess that was wrong. Bernard Cornwell spread the myth further with Sharpe, but the ball is at the bottom of the cartridge and is put in the barrel after the powder. I would not like to see the results of putting your mouth over a loaded musket once too often!

Originally Posted by Didz

The other thing that occurred to me looking at the image you posted is the the buck-shot is remarkably small. I can understand how it might still cause serious injury to a semi-naked savage, but i wonder how effective the light shots would be aganst a soldiers wearing thick woolen overcoats, leather crossbelts and in some cases a cuirass. It doesn't look to me as though those balls would have much penetration, and we know that many European soldiers went into battle wearing their greatcoats just to reduce the risk of injury from full sized musket balls at longer ranges.

The Americans used this load during the War of 1812, I have read it several times, but cant find a quote at the moment. You are absolutely right, thick clothing would often deflect the smaller shot. Even when the small ball hit flesh it would often not cause a serious wound at longer distances.

Originally Posted by LaSallian

Actually biting the bullet from a cartridge is a myth, Various Authors have made this mistake, a 50/50 guess that was wrong. Bernard Cornwell spread the myth further with Sharpe, but the ball is at the bottom of the cartridge and is put in the barrel after the powder. I would not like to see the results of putting your mouth over a loaded musket once too often!

Hmm! well you have surprised me as I've always believed that the bullet was bitten from the top of the cartridge and held between the teeth whilst the rest of the loading process was completed and then dropped (or spat) down the barrel just before the empty paper cartridge before being rammed home.

This seems to be a quite common error if it is one, as I've just checked several references and they all confirm that process. But if I can get a primary source to confirm it I shall let you know.

I can certainly see the logic of your procedure, particularly when loading 'buck and ball', but I have just always understood the biting the bullet was the approach used presumably because it was easier to grip between the teeth and provided a better purchase to obtain a clean tear without spilling the powder. Hence the term.

Quick update - I've just found the following described in a copy of Military Parade.

Upon the command "Prime and load". The soldier will bring the musket to the priming position, with the pan opened.
Upon the command "Handle Cartridge". The soldier will draw a cartridge. Cartridges consist of a spherical lead bullet wrapped in a paper cartridge which also holds the gunpowder propellant. The bullet is separated from the powder charge by a twist in the paper.
The soldier should then bite off the top of the cartridge (the end without the bullet) and hold it closed with the thumb and index finger.
Upon the command "Prime". The soldier should pour a small pinch of the powder from the cartridge into the priming pan. He should then close the frizzen so that the priming powder is trapped.
Upon the command " 'Bout" (About). The butt of the musket is then dropped to the ground by the left foot with the trigger guard facing to the rear and the soldier having just poured the rest of the powder into the barrel. Once all of the powder is poured into the barrel, the soldier should have stuffed the paper and the ball into the barrel, the paper acts as wadding to keep the gunpowder in the barrel and also packing it down.
http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/mil...ket-drill.html

So, that seems to support your point nicely, and that was for a Brown Bess musket.

Originally Posted by LaSallian

The Americans used this load during the War of 1812, I have read it several times, but cant find a quote at the moment. You are absolutely right, thick clothing would often deflect the smaller shot. Even when the small ball hit flesh it would often not cause a serious wound at longer distances.

Well the idea was it could still kill at 100 yards but was designed for engagement at 70 yards or less where the buck shot would be more deadly. This type of shot was used up into the American Civil War. The Union's Irish Brigade used this type of shot to great effect even in the face of mini-ball rifles.


PS
US firing drill (as I understand it) is exactly the same as that link you posted, but instead of "present" we said "aim".